17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #19

[Isabelle]

OK now you can compare GZ.
FIRST Let’s look at both accurately, not selectively.
I see TM a bit differently, then your description:
TM's pot bag was not always empty. LOL
TM's locker was found with a screw driver and Ladies Jewelry, hmmm.
TM has gold teeth... allows for judgment here too.
Was sent home from school for the 3rd time, 10 days is never a first timer.

But do those things make Trayvon a criminal? Were there any charges, juvenile or otherwise? How many other students worldwide have been caught with pot in a bag or an empty baggie that contained pot? There is no proof that Trayvon stole the jewelry and there were no charges. How many others have gold teeth? How many other students worldwide have been suspended from school more than twice? None of this warrants his death by another as being justified. Sorry, I don't see people superficially, I have tried in my life and career to believe that when I look into another's eyes, I am looking into the eyes of God and treat them accordingly.

 

[Emeralgem]

YES you asked why they need to hold things close to the vest. that is separate from why didn't they do a good investigation.

They should have done a good investigation
they should hold the findings close to the vest till the proper time
It is never proper to trial any case in public opinion, the media does not help they just don’t.
They create a money machine for tabloid.

Excuse me, I never asked WHY they needed to hold things to vest?
This is what I asked...
BBM..IMHO The question is WHY wasn't a fair and balanced investigation conducted?

This is what I stated...
IIRC an investigator wanted to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter that night.. Seems to me since his decision was overruled LE has been more interested in sweeping Trayvon's death under the rug than holding their cards close to vest...JMHO



Apparently, You did not understand what I was attempting to convey in my response to your comment...JMHO.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

LMAO you are funny, I enjoy reading you.
I myself dress just as Trayvon did that day when I go out for a run.
BUT People here are saying that George judged Trayvon... I say we all do that at different times, in different ways. NON of us are free of judgments none of us. We even select our friends based on a judgment.
If you give me an impression that makes me want you as a friend it is also a judgment of mine.

IF Gorge sized up Trayvon based on whatever, could be body language... he had a right to size him up. Just as I may size people up at an interview...A watchman sizes people up based on whatever he has learned on his job.

I am no youngster; I can draw on many life experiences.
I was in a produce market one day. I noticed a guy looking funny... I can’t explain it but I zipped my bag, watched my wallet, and him.
Sure enough 5 minutes later I saw him try to pick a women’s bag. I grabbed his hand and yelled police. YES he was apprehended. The girl got on the line behind me she bought me flowers her way to say Thanks.
BUT HOW IS IT I SIZED THE GUY UP??? I am sure that George has a far more keen eye for such things then I do...

Wow, Songline...you give GZ too much credit and make it appear as if he was right to do what he did.

Sizing someone up doesn't escalate into a killing, at least it shouldn't...Since when is is against the law to walk on your way home, in the rain, with a hoodie holding an iced tea can and a bag of skittles?

Are we to believe GZ believed TM had a weapon in his hand or as I believe GZ just embellished to justify his actions..it appears the intent was first formed, not wanting another '*advertiser censored**hole getting away..and yet, this kid did nothing wrong but walk between homes or walkways and this is what got GZ's attention..Dude should have continued on to complete his errand, he's nothing more than a resident there he has no police powers, tho' I bet he thinks he does..

His mentality is frightening and if he continues to be on the streets folk in Sanford should be very afraid...A violent man with a CWP might just do what he's done to TM...I don't believe this will stop him, just as he thought, this would blow over..did he not think the parents would pursue this? :banghead:

 

[songline]

< mod snip > in a society where so many now feel spanking is never the correct or right thing to do. So some would see the Dad is a monster regardless of his reasons and others would see him as a good parent. So, bad analogy.

That too is a judgment. The kids o yesteryear who did get a spanking were really good kids.
I used to get spanked, and I had great parents. I feel blessed.

I never said children who get beaten. :nono:

 

[Isabelle]

If this case goes to GJ, how long before a decision?

 

[LolaMoon08]

If this case goes to GJ, how long before a decision?

Casey's came back the same day... but there was a lot of evidence against her... so....

MOO

 

[suzihawk]

LMAO you are funny, I enjoy reading you.
I myself dress just as Trayvon did that day when I go out for a run.
BUT People here are saying that George judged Trayvon... I say we all do that at different times, in different ways. NON of us are free of judgments none of us. We even select our friends based on a judgment.
If you give me an impression that makes me want you as a friend it is also a judgment of mine.

IF Gorge sized up Trayvon based on whatever, could be body language... he had a right to size him up. Just as I may size people up at an interview...A watchman sizes people up based on whatever he has learned on his job.

I am no youngster; I can draw on many life experiences.
I was in a produce market one day. I noticed a guy looking funny... I can’t explain it but I zipped my bag, watched my wallet, and him.
Sure enough 5 minutes later I saw him try to pick a women’s bag. I grabbed his hand and yelled police. YES he was apprehended. The girl got on the line behind me she bought me flowers her way to say Thanks.
BUT HOW IS IT I SIZED THE GUY UP??? I am sure that George has a far more keen eye for such things then I do...

What makes you think George has a keen eye for sniffing out who is about to commit a crime?!

He was not a 'watchman' and that was not his job. He was a volunteer for an organization whose object is to be observant and report any perceived wrongdoing to the proper authorities for them to handle. Trayvon was doing nothing to indicate he was doing or attempting to do anything wrong. Or even thinking about doing anything wrong. George decided (with no knowledge) that he didn't belong there. Based on what? How he was dressed or perhaps the color of his skin? That he was 'looking about'? Walking too slow to suit him?

 

[deelytful1]

If this case goes to GJ, how long before a decision?

One of the reporters on TV last night made it a point to stress that the GJ had absolutely NO time constraints to determine whatever it is they will determine....

 

[songline]

Apparently GZ seemed to have no problem coming to a conclusion without any facts. Most investigations have to use the logic that Chris presented because in many cases there are no "eyewitness" to prove or disprove who started an incident.

TM's history shows no potential for violence. GZ does. Interviews with TM's brother show a man who is well spoken, mild in manner and who also claimed his brother was very much the same as he is. TM's parents are remarkable in their ability to handle what has happened asking people to view it as not a black and white issue but a right and wrong issue. There is no proof TM would have reacted in a negative way other than to try and get away from GZ. GZ proved he was actively pursuing TM. That proof is the minute he stepped from his car and started to follow TM when LE told him he did not have to do so.

We have the right to be suspicious of people. We have the right to call LE regarding those suspicions. We have the obligation to let LE do their job. That should be were it ends, not to go off following someone like some super sleuther.

If a MOD (here) told me I did not need to be posting information as fact when it was not I would respect that and not do it again because I respect their authority. GZ did not respect LE's authority when they instructed him to wait with the car. He had the right to verbally challenge that request but did not do so. That instruction to GZ from LE was for his own protection as well as it was for everyone else. He disregarded it and took the law into his own hands without considering the safety of others. It's that simple. jmo

BBM I agree.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Excuse me, I never asked WHY they needed to hold things to vest?
This is what I asked...
BBM..IMHO The question is WHY wasn't a fair and balanced investigation conducted?

This is what I stated...
IIRC an investigator wanted to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter that night.. Seems to me since his decision was overruled LE has been more interested in sweeping Trayvon's death under the rug than holding their cards close to vest...JMHO



Apparently, You did not understand what I was attempting to convey in my response to your comment...JMHO.

Could be they thought TM came in from Miami to burglarize around there..GZ being a serial 911 caller, they might have thought, well this time GZ got his thief...:what:

I think LE didn't know until Tracey Martin wanted to make a missing persons report...that's when they found out who TM was and where he was living...but at first glance they truly might have thought, this time GZ got his man...:maddening:

 

[Adrienne37]

LMAO you are funny, I enjoy reading you.
I myself dress just as Trayvon did that day when I go out for a run.
BUT People here are saying that George judged Trayvon... I say we all do that at different times, in different ways. NON of us are free of judgments none of us. We even select our friends based on a judgment.
If you give me an impression that makes me want you as a friend it is also a judgment of mine.

IF Gorge sized up Trayvon based on whatever, could be body language... he had a right to size him up. Just as I may size people up at an interview...A watchman sizes people up based on whatever he has learned on his job.

I am no youngster; I can draw on many life experiences.
I was in a produce market one day. I noticed a guy looking funny... I can&#8217;t explain it but I zipped my bag, watched my wallet, and him.
Sure enough 5 minutes later I saw him try to pick a women&#8217;s bag. I grabbed his hand and yelled police. YES he was apprehended. The girl got on the line behind me she bought me flowers her way to say Thanks.
BUT HOW IS IT I SIZED THE GUY UP??? I am sure that George has a far more keen eye for such things then I do...

Zimmerman was not supposed to be a "watchman." He had no job in the neighborhood to learn from. < mod snip > He was not supposed to do any patrolling, he was not supposed to be doing rounds, he was not supposed to be "sizing people up" because he had no job.



~jmo~

 

[LambChop]

OK now you can compare GZ.
FIRST Let’s look at both accurately, not selectively.
I see TM a bit differently, then your description:
TM's pot bag was not always empty. LOL
TM's locker was found with a screw driver and Ladies Jewelry, hmmm.
TM has gold teeth... allows for judgment here too.
Was sent home from school for the 3rd time, 10 days is never a first timer.

I only have seen two dates. October for the jewelry, an empty bag and the screw driver. The jewelry issues was resolved because he was not suspended for that. Having a screwdriver is not a crime, it's just against school rules as is a plastic knife to cut your sandwhich. And February was for the tagging. I have not seen a date for anything else. I also did not know gold teeth was a crime.....can someone enlighten me???? How is that comparable to assault on a police officer and domestic violence? Kids do get into trouble at school but we see no suspension because he had been fighting and no criminal charges were brought against him for the jewelry so we can assume it was resolved otherwise the school would have suspended him for that also. It's not a crime to have jewelry in your backpack and not against school policy, IMO. If you are going to comdemn him for an empty bag of weed.....it's not a crime. You have to have a certain amount to be arrested...why....because half that police force probably smoked pot as a teen and most of our college graduates have at least tried it once in their lifetime. Unless you are selling it and have more than a certain amount on you they won't arrest you. It's like getting caught with a beer when you're underage. How many kids have had a drink, with permission from their folks or not, just to try it out? jmo

 

[songline]

What makes you think George has a keen eye for sniffing out who is about to commit a crime?!

He was not a 'watchman' and that was not his job. He was a volunteer for an organization whose object is to be observant and report any perceived wrongdoing to the proper authorities for them to handle. Trayvon was doing nothing to indicate he was doing or attempting to do anything wrong. Or even thinking about doing anything wrong. George decided (with no knowledge) that he didn't belong there. Based on what? How he was dressed or perhaps the color of his skin? That he was 'looking about'? Walking too slow to suit him?

I am sure GZ has a more keen eye then I because he was watching for a long time.
(I was just in a store, but how did I know? HOW? just a feeling really).

You have no way of knowing what TM was doing, not doing.
Nobody has that information at all. Maybe George felt as I felt in that store.

 

[Steft50]

That too is a judgment. The kids o yesteryear who did get a spanking were really good kids.
I used to get spanked, and I had great parents. I feel blessed.

I never said children who get beaten. :nono:

BBM

Neither did I.

 

[JeannaT]

I only have seen two dates. October for the jewelry, an empty bag and the screw driver. The jewelry issues was resolved because he was not suspended for that. Having a screwdriver is not a crime, it's just against school rules as is a plastic knife to cut your sandwhich. And February was for the tagging. I have not seen a date for anything else. I also did not know gold teeth was a crime.....can someone enlighten me???? How is that comparable to assault on a police officer and domestic violence? Kids do get into trouble at school but we see no suspension because he had been fighting and no criminal charges were brought against him for the jewelry so we can assume it was resolved otherwise the school would have suspended him for that also. It's not a crime to have jewelry in your backpack and not against school policy, IMO. If you are going to comdemn him for an empty bag of weed.....it's not a crime. You have to have a certain amount to be arrested...why....because half that police force probably smoked pot as a teen and most of our college graduates have at least tried it once in their lifetime. Unless you are selling it and have more than a certain amount on you they won't arrest you. It's like getting caught with a beer when you're underage. How many kids have had a drink, with permission from their folks or not, just to try it out? jmo

The school didn't suspend him because they couldn't PROVE the jewelry was stolen - they did confiscate it, and funny, no one came forward to claim it as the rightful owner. That speaks completely for itself - no one insisted on having it back.

He was suspended in February for the pot bag and paraphernalia, as I recall. I don't know when the incident of spray painting WTF on school property occurred.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Sending Easter kisses to all our victims here on Webslueths who have lost their lives too soon. There are just too many to name, but they are all equal and equally deserve justice.

This forum makes me so happy most of the time because we are all here for the same reasons. We just want Justice... and justice can take time. We're not always right... but we fight hard for these victims and it says a lot about the people who are members here. Good people! Great people, even. I'm proud to be a member of this forum.

So Happy Easter everyone!

 

[LambChop]

One of the reporters on TV last night made it a point to stress that the GJ had absolutely NO time constraints to determine whatever it is they will determine....

They meet once of month I think and they can be on the Grand Jury for up 18 months and sometimes two years. Obviously they are all well aware of what is happening because they aren't restricted other than talking to others about what happens when they meet. I know they do avoid talking about cases but it does not prevent them from hearing about them. jmo

 

[songline]

I only have seen two dates. October for the jewelry, an empty bag and the screw driver. The jewelry issues was resolved because he was not suspended for that. Having a screwdriver is not a crime, it's just against school rules as is a plastic knife to cut your sandwhich. And February was for the tagging. I have not seen a date for anything else. I also did not know gold teeth was a crime.....can someone enlighten me???? How is that comparable to assault on a police officer and domestic violence? Kids do get into trouble at school but we see no suspension because he had been fighting and no criminal charges were brought against him for the jewelry so we can assume it was resolved otherwise the school would have suspended him for that also. It's not a crime to have jewelry in your backpack and not against school policy, IMO. If you are going to comdemn him for an empty bag of weed.....it's not a crime. You have to have a certain amount to be arrested...why....because half that police force probably smoked pot as a teen and most of our college graduates have at least tried it once in their lifetime. Unless you are selling it and have more than a certain amount on you they won't arrest you. It's like getting caught with a beer when you're underage. How many kids have had a drink, with permission from their folks or not, just to try it out? jmo

If we have a right to look at both of their background to get an impression of who they are, then what I think you are doing is pretending that TM is OK but GZ is not.
and that is not how my head works at all.

They both have a history that needs to be taken into account.
And boys do not wear Jewelry and have screwdrivers to go along with it.
they do not cry empty pot bags, those bags were full before they were empty.
I am not good at denial or at enabling.

 

[JeannaT]

It seems to me that Corey has been pretty clear she won't be using the GJ process, but will arrive at whatever decision herself.

 

[songline]

The school didn't suspend him because they couldn't PROVE the jewelry was stolen - they did confiscate it, and funny, no one came forward to claim it as the rightful owner. That speaks completely for itself - no one insisted on having it back.

He was suspended in February for the pot bag and paraphernalia, as I recall. I don't know when the incident of spray painting WTF on school property occurred.

Hmmm. I had stuff stolen, I never knew whom to go insist that I want my stuff back.

Whoever is missing their Jewelry may be in a house a mile away from the school.
MAYBE IF THE POLICE had a web site with pictures of all stolen goods they may come forward.