17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #19

[Dr.Fessel]

Some articles have said early on that he was 6'3" but even if he was 6 feet he is A HEAD larger then George. the concept of a kid with regard to a physical confrontation is not applicable at all.
The way I see it, TM was an athlete, and no child when it comes to muscling George in a confront.

George is 5'9 according to the police report. That is 3 inches difference. About the height in the bottom white part of the post you just made.

 

[suzihawk]

Point being we all judge and it is not the makings of a killer.
Sadly Trayvon is dead not because GZ judged his cloths or color.
Sadly Trayvon is dead and there are still pieces of the puzzle missing.
LIKE - what happened during those 2 minutes? Who challenged whom and how?
Nobody has that information. How can they make any decisions on what happened???
:moo:

That is still highly debatable. I believe GZ did both. JMO

 

[songline]

Only GZ took it too far...Of course, no matter what happens there will be one side not happy....GZ should have been arrested and not let go...if he's arrested or not, TM is still dead and Sanford Florida still has a hot head with a loaded weapon in their midst..he's dangerous with a violent temper and no one will be safe if he's left out on the streets..If you live in Sanford, educate your children, too bad TM didn't call 911....to report someone following HIM...

I am not happy about the gun, but I do not like guns at all.
but in Florida it is legal.
I am not happy with the police either, they have been known to do shoty work.
But I do not know all the details until a thorough investigation is done.
I would not let GA watch anything he is a bit too eager to be a cop.
But he will not be safe being visible anywhere anyway.
He was disarmed, and an investigation is NOW on going, but should have been from the start.
You cannot do an investigation in one hour as they had done early on

 

[suzihawk]

I think GZ did pass. I believe from looking at his arrival at SPD less than an hour after he shot someone he appeared to be perfectly composed, asking the officer to tuck in his shirt. So, yes, I believe he passed showing no signs of stress whatsoever. jmo

That, in and of itself, is totally remarkable, IMO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

6 ' is only 3 inches taller than 5'9" ....... I am assuming here that neither one of their heads was 3 inches high as opposed to the average size of an adult male head which is just over 9" high.

GZ was comparable in height to ALL of the officers walking with him on the jail video, he was NOT shorter than 5'9" unless ALL of the officers were also VERY short by some coincidence.

jmo

You know there is an old joke about women being bad judges of length because of being told 3" really is 9". LOL LOL LOL

 

[songline]

< mod snip > You say that you judge which is certainly your right but believe it or not, there are people out there (myself included) who don't. I have never judged someone based on the clothes they wear or the number of tattoos they have on their skin. The true qualities of an individual lie on the inside, not in the clothes they wear and not because they have tattoos.


~jmo~

Absolutely their true qualities lie within. but how one carries one self tells me much too. My mom used to have a saying, "show me your friends and I will know who you are" everything we do speaks of us.
Those who say they do not judge, should review and find that they do indeed judge.
It is just that we all use different measure to judge by. You just judged me., yet you claim you don&#8217;t judge, but that is your truth not mine.
:moo:

 

[LambChop]

Some articles have said early on that he was 6'3" but even if he was 6 feet he is A HEAD larger then George. the concept of a kid with regard to a physical confrontation is not applicable at all.
The way I see it, TM was an athlete, and no child when it comes to muscling George in a confront.

But, again, look at GZ at SPD. His upper body shows signs of him being very phyically fit. TM appear to be very slim in his picture with gf and just average and certainly never had training as a bouncer. I see GZ training and getting himself fit for any position that would involve security. And he certainly seems very fit at the police station.

If GZ were on the bottom as witnesses claim, and I believe he was, I think it would be entirely possible that he was holding onto TM so he could not get away until LE arrived. I think somehow the gun came into play and that is why we hear those painful wails. If TM were as strong and powerful as some believe to take GZ down it would have been just as easy for GZ to have lost control of the gun and he never did. If TM jumped GZ and knocked him down, banged his head numerous times on the cement TM would have had the gun. TM had to have been lying right on top of it making it clearly known that GZ had a gun on him. Myself, I believe GZ had his hand on that gun the whole time. There is no way GZ would have let TM get that gun. jmo

 

[Concerned Papa]

Sorry Papa, It is not 3 foot ball fields away at all, it is at bet 1/10th of a mile, surly he can walk that in 3 minuts.

:moo::moo:

Certainly not worth arguing over, but I did say almost.:floorlaugh:

FYI, this is "as the crow flies" not following the curve of the road.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I think GZ did pass. I believe from looking at his arrival at SPD less than an hour after he shot someone he appeared to be perfectly composed, asking the officer to tuck in his shirt. So, yes, I believe he passed showing no signs of stress whatsoever. jmo

Well, J.O. did say that G.Z. naively thought this would all 'blow over'.

sorry no link but there is one in this thread somewhere.

MOO

wm

 

[Chris_Texas]

Point being we all judge and it is not the makings of a killer.
Sadly Trayvon is dead not because GZ judged his cloths or color.
Sadly Trayvon is dead and there are still pieces of the puzzle missing.
LIKE - what happened during those 2 minutes? Who challenged whom and how?
Nobody has that information. How can they make any decisions on what happened???:moo:

We form our opinions on those two minutes based upon:

* What we know of the history and personality of the people involved
* What we know happened in the minutes prior
* How truthful the witnesses appear to be
* Our own experiences with the normal behavior of others and ourselves

From this we can apply common sense to reach conclusions about what probably happened.

 

[songline]

BBM..IMHO The question is WHY wasn't a fair and balanced investigation conducted? IIRC an investigator wanted to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter that night.. Seems to me since his decision was overruled LE has been more interested in sweeping Trayvon's death under the rug than holding their cards close to vest...JMHO

2 different topics:
A- I do not know why there was not a fair and balanced investigation, there i lies my anger too, there should have been.
B- Now there is an investigation in the works, And the information should be held close to the vest till the right time is to announce what they have found.
The Media has already created a money machine, tilted a lot by creating false impressions.

 

[Chris_Texas]

Some articles have said early on that he was 6'3" but even if he was 6 feet he is A HEAD larger then George. the concept of a kid with regard to a physical confrontation is not applicable at all.
The way I see it, TM was an athlete, and no child when it comes to muscling George in a confront.

He was 140 to 150 pounds! Clearly you don't understand just how scrawny this guy was. I am not saying this to be disrespectful to Trayvon, but this kid was a bloody twig. Zimmerman could have probably done multiple reps bench pressing him. Hell, I am 45 and nowhere near the shape I used to be in a few years ago, and unless this kid was Bruce Lee reincarnated I would absolutely demolish him. When I was Zimmerman's age I could have litterally lifted this kid over my head and thrown him; I used to toss 150 lb hay bales eight feet in the air loading a truck, and not one or two, but fifty plus at a stretch, twice a day.

The idea that this little guy was some powerhouse is laughable.

 

[Chris_Texas]

2 different topics:
A- I do not know why there was not a fair and balanced investigation, there i lies my anger too, there should have been.
B- Now there is an investigation in the works, And the information should be held close to the vest till the right time is to announce what they have found.
The Media has already created a money machine, tilted a lot by creating false impressions.

The public has a reasonable cause to be suspicious. If there was a valid reason why GZ was released, if he was in fact seriously injured, then it is time the police disclose this to the PUBLIC.

They aren't hiding anything from GZ, he knows how injured he was or was not, they are hiding this information from the public. They need to release the medical examiner's report, GZ's injury photos, ALL the calls to the police, they need to stop covering this crime up.

In my opinion.

 

[songline]

Songline - dark red

We form our opinions on those two minutes based upon:

* What we know of the history and personality of the people involved.
But if you look at history of both NEITHER is squeaky clean.
* What we know happened in the minutes prior
Minutes prior cant indicate who jumped whom, which changes things?
* How truthful the witnesses appear to be
IMHO &#8211; there is a lot of misinformation
* Our own experiences with the normal behavior of others and ourselves
But we do not know what we would do if someone was threatening to us.From this we can apply common sense to reach conclusions about what probably happened.

I once used this as an analogy in a class:
You see a father spanking his young one - you think OMG I would love to spank that man myself, how dare he spank this little boy.

What you do not see is that child was running out into the street where the cars are, he was told not to do that, it is dangerous. Daddy had to pick up baby so he lets go of the boys hand and the boy runs out into the street again, he is reprimanded again. Baby falls asleep in daddy&#8217;s arms and daddy put baby in carriage. Again the boy runs into the street, where daddy told him twice not to go, this time Daddy spanked him...and that is the only part you have seen.

Is the daddy still bad? NOT in My Opinion.

So in this case --- what we do not know, we do not know.

 

[LambChop]

He was 140 to 150 pounds! Clearly you don't understand just how scrawny this guy was. I am not saying this to be disrespectful to Trayvon, but this kid was a bloody twig. Zimmerman could have probably done multiple reps bench pressing him. Hell, I am 45 and nowhere near the shape I used to be in a few years ago, and unless this kid was Bruce Lee reincarnated I would absolutely demolish him. When I was Zimmerman's age I could have litterally lifted this kid over my head and thrown him; I used to toss 150 lb hay bales eight feet in the air loading a truck, and not one or two, but fifty plus at a stretch, twice a day.

The idea that this little guy was some powerhouse is laughable.

I agree. And wouldn't be possible that because GZ went after TM, and GZ told LE "they always get away" that it's not a stretch to the imagination to believe that GZ would have been holding onto TM to keep him from getting away and the gun suddenly became an issue. I think that is more believable than GZ was not able to get TM off him. jmo

 

[LambChop]

I once used this as an analogy in a class:
You see a father spanking his young one - you think OMG I would love to spank that man myself, how dare he spank this little boy.

What you do not see is that child was running out into the street where the cars are, he was told not to do that, it is dangerous. Daddy had to pick up baby so he lets go of the boys hand and the boy runs out into the street again, he is reprimanded again. Baby falls asleep in daddy’s arms and daddy put baby in carriage. Again the boy runs into the street, where daddy told him twice not to go, this time Daddy spanked him...and that is the only part you have seen.

Is the daddy still bad? NOT in My Opinion.

So in this case --- what we do not know, we do not know.

It's his child. TM was not GZ's responsibility, ever. jmo

 

[songline]

The public has a reasonable cause to be suspicious. If there was a valid reason why GZ was released, if he was in fact seriously injured, then it is time the police disclose this to the PUBLIC.

They aren't hiding anything from GZ, he knows how injured he was or was not, they are hiding this information from the public. They need to release the medical examiner's report, GZ's injury photos, ALL the calls to the police, they need to stop covering this crime up.

In my opinion.

His medical info is not all they want.
the public as I see it wants much more then just the meical info.

 

[songline]

It's his child. TM was not GZ's responsibility, ever. jmo

BUT THE ANOLOGY IS
what we do not see we cannot say we have a conclusion about it.

 

[Steft50]

2 different topics:
A- I do not know why there was not a fair and balanced investigation, there i lies my anger too, there should have been.
B- Now there is an investigation in the works, And the information should be held close to the vest till the right time is to announce what they have found.
The Media has already created a money machine, tilted a lot by creating false impressions.

BBM

Even though some of the media have played fast and loose with the facts in this case, I strongly feel there would have never been further investigation without the pressure the media brings. Most of us would be completely unaware of this case without Trayvons family pushing at the media to get the story out there.

 

[Steft50]

I once used this as an analogy in a class:
You see a father spanking his young one - you think OMG I would love to spank that man myself, how dare he spank this little boy.

What you do not see is that child was running out into the street where the cars are, he was told not to do that, it is dangerous. Daddy had to pick up baby so he lets go of the boys hand and the boy runs out into the street again, he is reprimanded again. Baby falls asleep in daddy&#8217;s arms and daddy put baby in carriage. Again the boy runs into the street, where daddy told him twice not to go, this time Daddy spanked him...and that is the only part you have seen.

Is the daddy still bad? NOT in My Opinion.

So in this case --- what we do not know, we do not know.

< mod snip > in a society where so many now feel spanking is never the correct or right thing to do. So some would see the Dad is a monster regardless of his reasons and others would see him as a good parent. So, bad analogy.