17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #24

[Boytwnmom]

trying to detain Trayvon, you know, so he wouldn't "get away" like all the other a$%holes did. Instead of ever identifying himself he stalks the kid and suddenly appears and grabs him to keep him there until police arrive. I have no doubt at that point Trayvon freaks and does whatever he can to get away as he still has no clue who this unidentified stalker is. Trayvon isn't looking for a fight either obviously, he's trying to escape this creep. Then GZ shows his gun in some way, maybe because he was such a chicken that as soon as anyone touched him back he resorted to deadly force. Once the gun was out, Trayvon really freaks, hence the wrenching screams and then GZ shoots.

I have no idea why people find this difficult to understand. It's clear as day to me. He wanted to make sure Trayvon didn't get away. Why else would he follow him after being told not to? What was he going to do? If he wanted to "talk" to him he had every chance in the world while Trayvon was walking by him. He could stare at the kid and describe everything he was wearing down to the button on his hoodie but he couldn't open his mouth to ask a question that would have prevented all that ensued. This is, always and forever, GZ's fault, in every moral and legal sense. His stalking and detaining Trayvon rightfully put him in fear for his life and GZ never had the right to shoot him for the confrontation that was 100% his doing.

Trayvon has no history of aggressive behavior but GZ clearly does and has repeatedly resorted to violence to solve problems. GZ took a gun to stalk a kid and detain him. His behavior was therefore not lawful at any point after he disregarded the instructions of the 911 operator and went after Trayvon with his gun.

It would be really hard for me to wrap my head around Zimmerman
carrying a gun and starting a fight. It just does not add up in my head.

 

[LambChop]

When you live with parents who are lawyers you hear legal talk, when you live with parents who have a restaurant you hear food talk...
I think that Zimmerman living with parents in the court system would know for sure that guns in a fight can get messy.
I believe that no way would he carry and induce an altercation.

Then he should have known enough to respect what he was asked to do. He didn't even have enough respect for LE to let them know he was armed. I don't seem to have a problem believe he would do this with the type of past GZ has had. Throwing a woman across the room is not normal behavior. GZ has some major anger issues what did not seem to be resolved when he attended those mandatory anger management classes. He still has issues. jmo

 

[LolaMoon08]

I am interested in the answer to this question. I'll admit, I have a very hard time understanding why she would wait so long if she heard what she says she heard. If she doesn't have a good explanation for that, and that she DID try to contact the police would be a great one, I think it will impact her credibility. I know my dd would not have been able to keep her mouth shut about it for a nanosecond. And that's just her but, imo, pretty typical teenaged girl behavior in a digital world.

I don't think that she waited 3 weeks to come forward? I can see where she tried to get into contact with SPD and her calls were ignored. She's wouldn't be the only one who they ignored?

Another thing is... we don't even know if she knew Trayvon's parents personally? She was 15-years-old. Usually kids that age the relationship is based in school and on the phone. Also, I believe that it was Trayvon's parents lawyer, after they got the phone records, who contacted her... so I think the phone records are going to match up to her talking to Trayvon and I believe that Trayvon's parents were livid when they learned that this girls mother tried to get into contact with SPD and the calls were ignored.

You have to remember, she didn't know Trayvon was dead until at least a few days later. She was hospitalized and couldn't even go to his funeral when she found out.

Can you imagine being 15-years-old and you are talking to your boyfriend on the phone one minute and a few days later you find out that the reason the phone had disconnected was because your boyfriend was about to be killed? It's horrible.

I don't think she has any reason to lie? MOO

 

[songline]

It's funny how people can view things so differently!

It's because of his interest in LE and his seemingly wanna be cop attitude that leads me to think the way I do about how the confrontation started. He didn't want another one to get away. I don't think he would view what I believe he did as aggressive, he would view it only as stopping another kid/guy/punk from getting away again.

imo

But he knew he cant put his hands on anyone. HE DID know that.
Wana bee cop does not change what you are NOT allowed to do.
INDUCING a PHYSICL ULTERCATION by pulling on Trayvon’s shirt would be unacceptable.
He knew better.

 

[octobermoon]

I understand she was a Court clerk.

Well, I have to admit I find it hard to follow RZjr. He must of meant that Grandma took care of them while his parents were at work. I did find it odd that he didn't mention his mother at all, that I heard. I could have missed it tho.

 

[octobermoon]

But he knew he cant put his hands on anyone. HE DID know that.
Wana bee cop does not change what you are NOT allowed to do.
INDUCING a PHYSICL ULTERCATION by pulling on Trayvon’s shirt would be unacceptable.
He knew better.

He put his hands on an ATF undercover agent and had to go to anger management classes.

 

[LolaMoon08]

But he knew he cant put his hands on anyone. HE DID know that.
Wana bee cop does not change what you are NOT allowed to do.
INDUCING a PHYSICL ULTERCATION by pulling on Trayvon’s shirt would be unacceptable.
He knew better.

BBM He obviously didn't know all that well to keep his hands to himself? ATF Agent, ex-fiance, and girl from the illegal party, gives us a pretty good idea of how well George felt about the rule of putting his hands on people.

MOO

 

[mercuriod]

But he knew he cant put his hands on anyone. HE DID know that.
Wana bee cop does not change what you are NOT allowed to do.
INDUCING a PHYSICL ULTERCATION by pulling on Trayvon’s shirt would be unacceptable.
He knew better.

I really don't think GZ cared about what he was "NOT allowed to do", you are "not allowed" to assault a police officer but that didn't stop GZ now did it? You are "not allowed" to pick up a woman and throw her across the room but that didn't stop GZ now did it? In GZ's mind he is allowed to do anything he wants to do. He has some major "issues".

 

[csziggy]

I am not sleuthing his family members, but is GZ's mother deceased? Is that why they were raised by Grandma?

Not that I know of but she was a working mother - a county clerk or the equivalent if I remember correctly.

 

[LolaMoon08]

When you live with parents who are lawyers you hear legal talk, when you live with parents who have a restaurant you hear food talk...
I think that Zimmerman living with parents in the court system would know for sure that guns in a fight can get messy.
I believe that no way would he carry and induce an altercation.

Anyone who watches "First 48" would know for sure that guns in a fight can get messy?

Look, I respect your opinion, but this is something I can not agree with at all. It makes no sense to me that just because someone is born into a household with people in LE, that it would make them less likely to do anything.

MOO

 

[songline]

I am interested in the answer to this question. I'll admit, I have a very hard time understanding why she would wait so long if she heard what she says she heard. If she doesn't have a good explanation for that, and that she DID try to contact the police would be a great one, I think it will impact her credibility. I know my dd would not have been able to keep her mouth shut about it for a nanosecond. And that's just her but, imo, pretty typical teenaged girl behavior in a digital world.

There is something here that is not working for me at all. She said she called LE and they did not call her back.
She speaks to Trayvon for hours multiple times a day every day and that night no call back from Trayvon.
the next day, the next day....Why didn’t she go into her local police station?
Tell them she tried to reach LE no call back and she is worried sick.
Mr. Martin got the bill after learning about what had happened and by looking at the bill HE IS the one
who figured out it was Trayvons Girl friend’s number. How did he figure it out? The numbers on a bill
do not have names...You just dial the number and BINGO.

Her report to the police was 3 weeks after the incident. YES she was contacted.

IMHO we so not and will not know since the police had not talked with her FIRST! What is fact.

 

[MsCharlieChan]

Does anyone know exactly why the first State prosecutor, Norman Wolfinger, recused himself and had to get off of this case (replaced by Angela Corey)?

I'm under the impression it was Wolfinger's decision not to arrest GZ initially. He sent the word to have the doubting detective back off of GZ.

But was there ever an official statement or detailed reason for recusal cited by Wolfinger or the governor? Is it simply because Trayvon's parents had their lawyer send that letter to the U.S. Justice Dept., questioning his decision?

I wonder if GZ's dad made a call to someone who made a call to Wolfinger. As a former "magistrate" in VA, sounds like GZ's dad was in charge of cases involving high-profile citizens, lawmakers, etc. That's a dad with connections and huge favors owed to him.

 

[suspicious1]

OK so Trayvon thinks he is a perv and runs for the hills I get that.
But Zimmerman provoking anything with a gun in his belt and he comes from a family where both Mom and Dad work WITH the Law...
No I do not see that at all.
Not saying it is impossible I just Really do not see that at all.

IMO that's all the more reason to start a confrontation.....

You got a gun AND your family works with the law....

I think GZ has seen that as an advantage for a very long time.....but that's just my opinion.

 

[octobermoon]

Out in left field question, for anyone who knows..

Is it against the law to lie on your application for a concealed carry permit?

The reason I am wondering is if he had to take anger management wouldn't that be something you need to disclose? Don't you have to have a clean mental history to get one of those? Just wondering out loud how he got one?

 

[Steft50]

But he knew he cant put his hands on anyone. HE DID know that.
Wana bee cop does not change what you are NOT allowed to do.
INDUCING a PHYSICL ULTERCATION by pulling on Trayvon’s shirt would be unacceptable.
He knew better.

Yet he had several complaints of physical violence against him including a plea deal to attend anger management if what we've read is correct. He may have known better, but it didn't seem to matter to much to him in the past, why would that night be any different? I can't wrap my head around how his behavior would be any different with or without a gun. If anything I would think he would have more nerve/moxie with the gun than without it.

As always jmo

As a side question, someone said something a while back that he was expelled or asked to leave the college he was attending due to safety issues.....was that accurate and if so is there an article anywhere that details what thats about?

 

[LolaMoon08]

My 17-year-old niece's Senior Prom is tomorrow night. Trayvon's mother stated how excited Trayvon was about going to his Junior Prom. I know tomorrow I will make extra time to pray for Trayvon's parents. They'll never get to see their son go to a Prom. Junior or Senior. I'm going to cherish tomorrow with my niece because I realize how important these moments are. My heart aches for Trayvon's parents. I can't imagine Mrs. Fulton watching all Trayvon's friends dressed up like fine young boys and the girls in their beautiful gowns.

Sad! :cry:

 

[i.b.nora]

BBM

Didn't the brother say they were raised by the grandparents? Maybe that's where is obsession with LE comes from. Something strange in there, somewhere.

Robert Zimmerman, Jr. said recently that they were mostly raised by their maternal grandmother. He did not indicate why. However, it was in the context of his tale of woe about how both their father and this grandmother were very seriously ill during the early part of this year, indicating January and February.

 

[jaded cat]

I don't think all the girlfriend's testimony is "hearsay". "Hearsay" refers to someone explaining what happened, and you repeating it. Her testimony - what she heard coming over the phone - would be the same as any witness who was listening from their condo.

His DESCRIPTIONS of what was going on are hearsay, but when she heard him address GZ and heard GZ talk back and then she heard a scuffle, that's direct witness testimony. She heard it herself as it was happening.

I do kind of hesitate to believe her testimony, because she had days with lawyers before she encountered LE, and she has every reason to protect Trayvon's reputation and legacy.

But what she heard over the phone wouldn't be ruled "hearsay".

So, you're assuming she'll lie on the witness stand? That a pretty bold accusation there and totally uncalled for. Anyone else on your list you think is willing to lie to preserve TM's reputation and legacy? It's already been established that TM has some serious incidents in his past so why would anyone lie at this point?

:banghead:

:maddening:

 

[beach]

I might have gotten a little sensitive to the "Tray" nickname last night, when someone was using this very nickname, and their theory was Trayvon was walking amongst us, not really dead. I apologize.

Oh please...no apology necessary at all!

We needed to clarify the acceptable names here anyway. People will be asking and wondering. You just gave me the perfect opportunity!

 

[LolaMoon08]

Robert Zimmerman, Jr. said recently that they were mostly raised by their maternal grandmother. He did not indicate why. However, it was in the context of his tale of woe about how both their father and this grandmother were very seriously ill during the early part of this year, indicating January and February.

So basically, Robert Z. Sr., basically is saying that George didn't have parents? Am I understanding this right?