17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #24

[Karmady]

I don't think that she waited 3 weeks to come forward? I can see where she tried to get into contact with SPD and her calls were ignored. She's wouldn't be the only one who they ignored?

Another thing is... we don't even know if she knew Trayvon's parents personally? She was 15-years-old. Usually kids that age the relationship is based in school and on the phone. Also, I believe that it was Trayvon's parents lawyer, after they got the phone records, who contacted her... so I think the phone records are going to match up to her talking to Trayvon and I believe that Trayvon's parents were livid when they learned that this girls mother tried to get into contact with SPD and the calls were ignored.

You have to remember, she didn't know Trayvon was dead until at least a few days later. She was hospitalized and couldn't even go to his funeral when she found out.

Can you imagine being 15-years-old and you are talking to your boyfriend on the phone one minute and a few days later you find out that the reason the phone had disconnected was because your boyfriend was about to be killed? It's horrible.

I don't think she has any reason to lie? MOO

Yes, she may have tried to call SPD and been ignored. I acknowledge that possibility and, as I said, if she did do that, that will fully negate any issue about delay.

I also think it is possible, if not probable, that she did not know his parents personally. MOST of my dd's friends do not know me personally enough to where I think they would feel comfortable calling me even if they thought something may have happened to her. I feel, however, that they would try to let someone else know, though, even if that just means posting about it on their FB or telling a parent. Also, in this case, I think it was mentioned that part of the reason Trayvon was in Sanford in the first place was to get him away from his friends and the gf. So even if she DID know his parents, she might not have felt comfortable calling him if they didn't "like" her.

And about imagining that circumstance, I do think I can imagine how dramatic/traumatic that could be for a teenaged girl because I've been one and have one. However, as far as having no reason to lie, I also can see my dd lying (or perhaps stretching the truth) to cover for a friend. Unfortunately, particularly for a boyfriend. Just a few weeks ago a boy touched her inappropriately at school and, much to my dismay, she was WAY more concerned about the consequences to him and whether she would be "getting him in trouble" if I took any action about it, than she was about what he did. There were eyewitnesses to it in her case, but if there had not been, there is little doubt in my mind that she might have lied to protect him and not bring all that drama down on her head. I am NOT accusing this girl of lying, but I would completely understand why she felt that she needed to IF things didn't go down exactly as she has reported. And I would not blame her, as she is a child. The truth of the matter though is, imo, not etched in stone at this point. That's all. jmoo.

 

[Steft50]

Thank you Songline for discussing this with me, I greatly appreciate the different point of view...even if I can't agree with it! It's been interesting and some what helpful for me to see how others view things differently.

 

[songline]

Anyone who watches "First 48" would know for sure that guns in a fight can get messy?

Look, I respect your opinion, but this is something I can not agree with at all. It makes no sense to me that just because someone is born into a household with people in LE, that it would make them less likely to do anything.

MOO

I strongly believe that your home has a great influence on you.
In fact I did a study on how much children are affected by early influences.
It is OK for you to believe what works for you;
I do not say it is impossible for GA to have initiated but In my strong opinion
It is not LIKELY that he would have initiated anything physical.

I think his weak link is having gotten out of the car even though it
was legal for him to do so.
WHY do I say that?
He knew the cops were coming, TM would not have been very far.
NEEDING to give them an exact address of where h was not paramount.
I think he will not get 2nd degree, but some other penalty as we move along this trail.
I do not think George killed Trayvon, I thing it snowballed out of control.

 

[Phoenixfla]

There is something here that is not working for me at all. She said she called LE and they did not call her back.
She speaks to Trayvon for hours multiple times a day every day and that night no call back from Trayvon.
the next day, the next day....Why didn’t she go into her local police station?
Tell them she tried to reach LE no call back and she is worried sick.
Mr. Martin got the bill after learning about what had happened and by looking at the bill HE IS the one
who figured out it was Trayvons Girl friend’s number. How did he figure it out? The numbers on a bill
do not have names...You just dial the number and BINGO.

Her report to the police was 3 weeks after the incident. YES she was contacted.

IMHO we so not and will not know since the police had not talked with her FIRST! What is fact.

Very interesting points. I will be interested in the responses. Especially since she claims the line went dead. I would think that she would be calling him back frantically.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Yes, she may have tried to call SPD and been ignored. I acknowledge that possibility and, as I said, if she did do that, that will fully negate any issue about delay.

I also think it is possible, if not probable, that she did not know his parents personally. MOST of my dd's friends do not know me personally enough to where I think they would feel comfortable calling me even if they thought something may have happened to her. I feel, however, that they would try to let someone else know, though, even if that just means posting about it on their FB or telling a parent. Also, in this case, I think it was mentioned that part of the reason Trayvon was in Sanford in the first place was to get him away from his friends and the gf. So even if she DID know his parents, she might not have felt comfortable calling him if they didn't "like" her.

And about imagining that circumstance, I do think I can imagine how dramatic/traumatic that could be for a teenaged girl because I've been one and have one. However, as far as having no reason to lie, I also can see my dd lying (or perhaps stretching the truth) to cover for a friend. Unfortunately, particularly for a boyfriend. Just a few weeks ago a boy touched her inappropriately at school and, much to my dismay, she was WAY more concerned about the consequences to him and whether she would be "getting him in trouble" if I took any action about it, than she was about what he did. There were eyewitnesses to it in her case, but if there had not been, there is little doubt in my mind that she might have lied to protect him and not bring all that drama down on her head. I am NOT accusing this girl of lying, but I would completely understand why she felt that she needed to IF things didn't go down exactly as she has reported. And I would not blame her, as she is a child. The truth of the matter though is, imo, not etched in stone at this point. That's all. jmoo.

BBM My niece was the polar opposite of that when she had a boy touch her inappropriately! My niece kicked him and kicked him hard and not in the nicest of places! Both she and the boy got in trouble, as they both deserved to get into trouble, but I was secretly proud of her! :floorlaugh:

 

[jjenny]

I am going to try to explain this the best way I know how.

Zimmerman will most certainly claim that he was within his rights citing the SYG law. In the legal world, that is considered an affirmative defense.

Think of it this way, insanity is also an affirmative defense. If a defendant claims they are innocent by reason of insanity, the burden shifts to the defendant to PROVE that they are insane.


Same thing with SYG. The defendant has to put on evidence (in this case it will have to be testimony) that supports GZ's claim that he felt his life was in imminent danger, so therefore he had a right to shoot.

I am linking to a blog but it explains it all very well. At trial, the burden of proof will be on prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt this was not self-defense because of SYG.

"Such a defendant would still be free at trial to plead his claim of immunity to the jury. At trial the burden of proof is exclusively on the prosecution to establish the guilt of the defendant beyond and to the exclusion of a reasonable doubt."
<modsnip>

 

[Boytwnmom]

of doing a lot more than pulling on a shirt. I honestly have no clue how you draw these conclusions about Zimmerman but they fly in the face of his history, of who he was, of how he treated people. He has been repeatedly physically aggressive even to a law enforcement agent so why the heck would anyone think he would be somehow inhibited from being aggressive with Trayvon who he had determined was a criminal he wanted to detain and produce for the cops who were on the way, kind of like a cat bringing their owners home a mouse. He wanted to be a hero and since he KNEW the guy was a criminal it didn't matter what he did to him. As far as I can see the only result of his having parents in the court system was a sense that those laws didn't apply to him and until now, they haven't. He was allowed to get away with his bad behavior until the public forced the system to act in this case.

But he knew he cant put his hands on anyone. HE DID know that.
Wana bee cop does not change what you are NOT allowed to do.
INDUCING a PHYSICL ULTERCATION by pulling on Trayvon’s shirt would be unacceptable.
He knew better.

 

[LinasK]

When you live with parents who are lawyers you hear legal talk, when you live with parents who have a restaurant you hear food talk...
I think that Zimmerman living with parents in the court system would know for sure that guns in a fight can get messy.
I believe that no way would he carry and induce an altercation.

There have been many cases of rebellion/ not caring that parents work with/in LE where the kids turn out bad, sometimes drugs are involved.
Prime example is Joran Van Der Sloot- serial murderer. His father was a judge in training- who used his influence to get him off in Natalee Holloway's murder.
Oh, and also let's not forget that George Anthony is ex-LE! Look how well his progeny turned out!!!

Quoting myself in response...

 

[MsCharlieChan]

I really don't think GZ cared about what he was "NOT allowed to do", you are "not allowed" to assault a police officer but that didn't stop GZ now did it? You are "not allowed" to pick up a woman and throw her across the room but that didn't stop GZ now did it? In GZ's mind he is allowed to do anything he wants to do. He has some major "issues".

I'd like to click THANKS for this comment 1,000 times!

GZ's former club-bouncer co-worker said GZ had a rage problem and has a big thing for asserting his power.

GZ explained that he only hit the officer because the officer didn't identify himself while trying to arrest his friend. He wrote that he would "never" knowingly hit an officer (so it's the officer's fault).

GZ's ex-girlfriend had domestic violence issues with him, TWICE had to get an Order of Protection put on him.

Thank goodness he wasn't admitted into the police academy. He would have probably wound up like Drew Petersen, killing innocent wives and whatnot -- acting above the law and untouchable.

 

[momshrink]

I am not sleuthing his family members, but is GZ's mother deceased? Is that why they were raised by Grandma?

From what I have read, both parents worked. I know many Latino families where the maternal grandmother lives with the family, cooks, cleans, cares for the children while the parents work. It is a wonderful tradition. I think this was what GZ's brother was referring to. I also understood him to say that his maternal grandmother and father had been ill and his mother had been caring for them. I think it was the Piers Anthony interview.
JMO

 

[songline]

Songline - dark red
Yet he had several complaints of physical violence against him including a plea deal to attend anger management if what we've read is correct. He may have known better, but it didn't seem to matter to much to him in the past, why would that night be any different? I can't wrap my head around how his behavior would be any different with or without a gun. If anything I would think he would have more nerve/moxie with the gun than without it.

As always jmo DID HE CARRY? no he was a bouncer.. bouncers bouce.

As a side question, someone said something a while back that he was expelled or asked to leave the college he was attending due to safety issues.....was that accurate and if so is there an article anywhere that details what thats about?

Not sure what you are referring to. Regarding leave the college.
But he was studying law I think (not certain) and wherever he is there are threats
so they must have asked him to leave… till this is over for safety reasons.
I think he will need a face job and name change to go on with his life.
Depending on what will happen with this case.

 

[RANCH]

Oh please...no apology necessary at all!

We needed to clarify the acceptable names here anyway. People will be asking and wondering. You just gave me the perfect opportunity!

Is MOM going to be OK?

 

[LinasK]

But he knew he cant put his hands on anyone. HE DID know that.
Wana bee cop does not change what you are NOT allowed to do.
INDUCING a PHYSICL ULTERCATION by pulling on Trayvon’s shirt would be unacceptable.
He knew better.

Then he should have known enough to respect what he was asked to do. He didn't even have enough respect for LE to let them know he was armed. I don't seem to have a problem believe he would do this with the type of past GZ has had. Throwing a woman across the room is not normal behavior. GZ has some major anger issues what did not seem to be resolved when he attended those mandatory anger management classes. He still has issues. jmo

Knowing any better didn't stop him, and maybe just maybe, like Joran Van Der Sloot, he thought daddy would step in and save him.

 

[songline]

I really don't think GZ cared about what he was "NOT allowed to do", you are "not allowed" to assault a police officer but that didn't stop GZ now did it? You are "not allowed" to pick up a woman and throw her across the room but that didn't stop GZ now did it? In GZ's mind he is allowed to do anything he wants to do. He has some major "issues".

I actually was waitng for a reply like this one.
He was a lot younger, doubt he was with gun in those days.
My coment was with gun ....

 

[LolaMoon08]

From what I have read, both parents worked. I know many Latino families where the maternal grandmother lives with the family, cooks, cleans, cares for the children while the parents work. It is a wonderful tradition. I think this was what GZ's brother was referring to. I also understood him to say that his maternal grandmother and father had been ill and his mother had been caring for them. I think it was the Piers Anthony interview.
JMO

When my mom left my dad, we lived with my great-grandmother and two great-aunts. We didn't have grandparents as my mother's parents died before we were born. A house of 7 girls! My Mimi (g-grandmother) and my two Aunts watched us as my mom went back to College and worked for 7 years until my mom was able to financially get us out on our own. I loved growing up in a home with nothing but women!

 

[i.b.nora]

So basically, Robert Z. Sr., basically is saying that George didn't have parents? Am I understanding this right?

Uh, no. What he was doing, IMO, was setting the stage for George being in a state of grief and worry over two of the most important people in his life, therefore, George was not acting like himself on that night in February.

 

[suspicious1]

Or one that will hit closer to "home" with many of us that have followed the Haleigh Cummings case, the son of Jeff Hardy, Sheriff of Putnam County, FL.

I remember that!

IMO some of those kids do things with no fear of being caught let alone being jailed for something. I have witnessed this firsthand......Some of them feel they can do no wrong because they're connected to the law. They view themselves as being ABOVE THE LAW. Sad but true.

 

[LinasK]

Anyone who watches "First 48" would know for sure that guns in a fight can get messy?

Look, I respect your opinion, but this is something I can not agree with at all. It makes no sense to me that just because someone is born into a household with people in LE, that it would make them less likely to do anything.

MOO

An analogous personal situation of mine: In Kindergarten, a boy pulled my daughter's hands off the monkey bars, endangering her to fall off. When she told me, I told her to tell the boy's mother who was a teacher at the school. I told my daughter, Mrs. XXXXXX should be more responsible than normal because she's both a teacher and a mother, and I'll be right there with you. Wrong- she accused my daughter of being a tattletale to her face! Seems this teacher has a blind spot when it comes to her own son.

 

[LolaMoon08]

All the bouncers at my previous job all had guns when they worked. Both bouncers and outside security had guns at all times. So there are times when bouncers have guns. They also have tasers, sticks, mace, etc...

 

[Adrienne37]

Older brother: Trayvon Martin was a happy teen, not violent...

Fulton humorously recalled Martin's first time riding on a horse. "His horse had some problems. It wanted to be a bully to everybody else's horse. He (Martin) handled it. He was the first one to learn how to control him."
Martin was shot and killed eight days after the trip.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/13/justice/florida-trayvon-brother/