17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #26

[LinasK]

I like member ecs5298 posts when it come's to question's about Paramedics.


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #17

And for me, this is the particularly relevant line: "He should be made aware of all the risks of refusing transport and made to sign a release of care prior to the paramedics clearing the scene."

This means- should he refuse care, he is doing so against medical advice (known as leaving AMA).
Red is my comment.

 

[mommakk51]

No, they would NOT have cleared him, they would have documented that treatment was recommended, and he refused Against Medical Advice!
I can say this for fact, because I worked in healthcare for 13 years!
And how is refusing to go to the hospital clearing his name????

Well, if they didn't clear him, how is it do you suppose, that he wasn't thrown on into the ambulance and hauled off to the hospital???

When I said he refused to go to the hospital because he wanted to tell his story to clear his name..I meant that it was important to him to cooperate with the Police to assure that they had all the facts.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

That has been a part of the storyline since this first came out. I believe it was the Police who stated that he was treated in the back of a patrol car, and refused to go to the hospital.

Nope, he was just cleared by the SFD.
http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

 

[RANCH]

Here's another good post by ecs5298

Can't speak for Sanford PD but in general if the patient refuses medical that's good enough for PD. If they take him into custody and take him to the hospital, then the PD is responsible for the bill. That is why they usually call for evaluation before a person is arrested. In the eyes of PD, GZ had a medical evaluation and refused transport. That was documented on the EMS refusal form. If his condition changed, I'm sure PD would have called EMS back to the scene or to the lockup/station.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7759000&postcount=145"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #17[/ame]

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Well, if they didn't clear him, how is it do you suppose, that he wasn't thrown on into the ambulance and hauled off to the hospital???

When I said he refused to go to the hospital because he wanted to tell his story to clear his name..I meant that it was important to him to cooperate with the Police to assure that they had all the facts.

Never heard any of that before.

 

[LinasK]

Well, if they didn't clear him, how is it do you suppose, that he wasn't thrown on into the ambulance and hauled off to the hospital???

From ECS's post: The paramedic could insist all he wants but if GZ is alert and oriented to person, place and time he has the right to refuse all or portions of treatment or transportation. To touch the patient otherwise would be assault and battery and to transport the patient would be kidnapping. Unless GZ was incapacitated to the point where the paramedics were to believe that he was unable to make prudent decisions for himself, then they have to respect his wishes and not transport him to the hospital.
And for me, this is the particularly relevant line: "He should be made aware of all the risks of refusing transport and made to sign a release of care prior to the paramedics clearing the scene."

This means- should he refuse care, he is doing so against medical advice (known as leaving AMA).
Red is my comment.

My response is my quote.

 

[mommakk51]

I'm sorry, I do not hear that at all. The car noises, ding ding when he is getting out, the whoosh whoosh of him moving and he is breathing faster and he may of racked his weapon.

Listen to it again. When he gets out of the car, you can tell he starts running, he is breathing hard and talking like someone out of breath, then the dispatcher asks if he is following Tray and he says yeah. They tell him they do not need him to do that, and he says OK. Immediately all the wind noises stop. He is no longer running and they ask him his name.. he says "George", then "Zimmerman...he ran". Then in a normal tone of voice he tells them how to get to where he is by going past the clubhouse to where they see his truck.

 

[highflyer]

Listen to it again. When he gets out of the car, you can tell he starts running, he is breathing hard and talking like someone out of breath, then the dispatcher asks if he is following Tray and he says yeah. They tell him they do not need him to do that, and he says OK. Immediately all the wind noises stop. He is no longer running and they ask him his name.. he says "George", then "Zimmerman...he ran". Then in a normal tone of voice he tells them how to get to where he is by going past the clubhouse to where they see his truck.

No, they don't. I've listened to it about 15 times.

 

[jaded cat]

I like member ecs5298 posts when it come's to question's about Paramedics.


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #17

Interesting! I wonder if it would have worked more in his favor if he did go to the hospital. If he was hurt so badly that he had to shoot TM, it makes more sense to demand medical treatment for those severe injuries.

There's more to this rolling around in my brain but it's 3:30am and my thoughts are a little jumbled.

 

[jaded cat]

Never heard any of that before.

I haven't heard it before either. Does not compute with my observations about GZ's behaviour that night at all.

 

[jaded cat]

Listen to it again. When he gets out of the car, you can tell he starts running, he is breathing hard and talking like someone out of breath, then the dispatcher asks if he is following Tray and he says yeah. They tell him they do not need him to do that, and he says OK. Immediately all the wind noises stop. He is no longer running and they ask him his name.. he says "George", then "Zimmerman...he ran". Then in a normal tone of voice he tells them how to get to where he is by going past the clubhouse to where they see his truck.

That's not what I hear when I listen. I'm sure LE has it all broken down by now and we'll hear the cleaned up version eventually.

 

[mercuriod]

What made me wonder if GZ could have been in the CoPs program is that if you look at the 46 calls made to the non-emergency number, obviously he had more than one neighborhood he was watching over. Also, when I looked at his booking report here:
http://cfnews13.com/content/dam/new...ents/george-zimmerman-booking-report-0412.pdf

I noticed he had a second charge- AMA alert. I looked that up and this is what it said:
00.08 WEAPONS - PROHIBITIONS
The possession of a weapon, or any type of firearm, is not permitted on County property, in County
facilities, at County work sites or in County vehicles. The sole exception shall be where such
possession or use of a weapon is a necessary and approved requirement of the employee's job.
Violations of this provision shall result in disciplinary action.
http://www.leoncountyfl.gov/bcc/policy/pdf/11-01-2.pdf

It's all rather curious if you ask me. JMO,IMHO and all that.

The explanation of the 00.08 charge you are giving is not the Florida Statute it is the policy of the Board of County Commissioners of Leon County, Florida. I am still trying to find the Florida Statute, when searching the official Florida site http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes I get no results found. I will do more research and ask a LE friend this evening exactly what that charge is and get back with you.

 

[GrandmaTo4]

Nope, he was just cleared by the SFD.
http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

Exactly right, Doc!

This additional account is probably easier to read:

b&ubm

"EMS records from the night of the shooting show Zimmerman sustained no serious injuries." New York Daily News >>

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-31/news/31267760_1_ems-response-zimmerman-scuffle

<<snip>>

"On Friday, the Daily News obtained EMS documents suggesting Zimmerman, who an ex-colleague said was fired from a security job for being too aggressive, did not sustain serious injuries in the fatal encounter.

Paperwork detailing the EMS response to the shooting scene shows that a call for a second ambulance was canceled.

An audiotape containing the EMS communications, also obtained by The News on Friday, records unidentified workers discussing the scene.
Zimmerman’s condition is mentioned briefly in the 30-minute recording."

“Do we have a second patient?” a man asks.

“That’s affirmative. We have a second patient,” a woman replies. “The second patient is not a gunshot.”

You can't get much more brief than that!

Again, "Paperwork detailing the EMS response to the shooting scene shows that a call for a second ambulance was canceled."

 

[GrandmaTo4]

Who said he refused to go to the hospital? All I saw was he received treatment in the back of the patrol car.

That's exactly correct too, Doc.

Since Zimmerman was clocked walking into the Sanford Police Dept. between 35-40 minutes after Trayvon was shot dead -- and it takes approximately 15-20 minutes to drive from the shooting scene to the Police Dept., (http://www.mapquest.com/) -- the EMTs sure didn't need to spend much time working on patching up Zimerman's NOT-serious wounds.

imho

 

[Elley Mae]

Exactly right, Doc!

This additional account is probably easier to read:

b&ubm

"EMS records from the night of the shooting show Zimmerman sustained no serious injuries." New York Daily News >>

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-31/news/31267760_1_ems-response-zimmerman-scuffle

<<snip>>

"On Friday, the Daily News obtained EMS documents suggesting Zimmerman, who an ex-colleague said was fired from a security job for being too aggressive, did not sustain serious injuries in the fatal encounter.

Paperwork detailing the EMS response to the shooting scene shows that a call for a second ambulance was canceled.

An audiotape containing the EMS communications, also obtained by The News on Friday, records unidentified workers discussing the scene.
Zimmerman&#8217;s condition is mentioned briefly in the 30-minute recording."

&#8220;Do we have a second patient?&#8221; a man asks.

&#8220;That&#8217;s affirmative. We have a second patient,&#8221; a woman replies. &#8220;The second patient is not a gunshot.&#8221;

You can't get much more brief than that!

Again, "Paperwork detailing the EMS response to the shooting scene shows that a call for a second ambulance was canceled."

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-31/news/31267760_1_ems-response-zimmerman-scuffle

A Miami funeral director says Trayvon Martin&#8217;s body showed no signs of a violent brawl.

Richard Kurtz said his examination of the slain Florida teen&#8217;s corpse revealed no cuts, scratches or bruises, only a gunshot wound to the chest.

Kurtz&#8217;s account appears to contradict George Zimmerman&#8217;s claims that he shot Trayvon during a life-and-death struggle.

&#8220;We could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle [or] there had been a fight,&#8221; Kurtz told CBS News.

&#8220;The hands &#8212; I didn&#8217;t see any knuckles, bruises or what have you, and that is something we would have covered up if it would have been there.&#8221;

I am not seeing the same in the article you posted.
:waitasec:

 

[annalia]

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-31/news/31267760_1_ems-response-zimmerman-scuffle

A Miami funeral director says Trayvon Martin’s body showed no signs of a violent brawl.

Richard Kurtz said his examination of the slain Florida teen’s corpse revealed no cuts, scratches or bruises, only a gunshot wound to the chest.

Kurtz’s account appears to contradict George Zimmerman’s claims that he shot Trayvon during a life-and-death struggle.

“We could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle [or] there had been a fight,” Kurtz told CBS News.

“The hands — I didn’t see any knuckles, bruises or what have you, and that is something we would have covered up if it would have been there.”

I am not seeing the same in the article you posted.
:waitasec:

Scroll down, the rest of the article is right after the google ads.

 

[momshrink]

That's exactly correct too, Doc.

Since Zimmerman was clocked walking into the Sanford Police Dept. between 35-40 minutes after Trayvon was shot dead -- and it takes approximately 15-20 minutes to drive from the shooting scene to the Police Dept., (http://www.mapquest.com/) -- the EMTs sure didn't need to spend much time working on patching up Zimerman's NOT-serious wounds.

imho

They did not even put a bandage on GZ.
JMO

 

[Concerned Papa]

We have no PROOF that GZ did anything in the way of provoking a physical confrontation.. they asked him not to follow Tray,he said OK and then he went in the opposite direction to get the address from they next street. By that time, it was dark. He would not have been able to see Tray if he was half way down that sidewalk. It was on his way back that the confrontation happened. He was attacked from behind. We have saw photos, we have seen/heard witness accounts of the bandages he had, and of his swollen/bandaged nose. My goodness, what more does one need to make an assessment of who was the aggressor here?

He admitted to the 911 dispatcher on tape, that he was following TM, when he was politely told not to. ------------Um, he STOPPED following AFTER he was politely told not to. If you have listened to the 911 tapes, this is quite evident by how he stops breathing hard and the phone noise stops, and he continues talking in a normal tone of voice.

If you google street names for drugs, you will find tea and skittles among the list. Tea is marijuana and skittles is exstacy.

Um, if he didn't follow TM.....and stayed on that sidewalk to the next street over to get an address.....and was brutally attacked by TM where the sidewalks intersect.....any thoughts on how George was found, by the first SPD officer on the scene, so far down the sidewalk between the townhomes with a dead body and a gun?

A location that was also confirmed by the SFD Fire and Rescue dispatcher as being in the back yard of 2831 Retreat View Circle?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc4-famjw1M"]Trayvon Martin's Body Location 2 Per Sanford Fire and Rescue - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Elley Mae]

Exactly right, Doc!

This additional account is probably easier to read:

b&ubm

"EMS records from the night of the shooting show Zimmerman sustained no serious injuries." New York Daily News >>

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-31/news/31267760_1_ems-response-zimmerman-scuffle

<<snip>>

"On Friday, the Daily News obtained EMS documents suggesting Zimmerman, who an ex-colleague said was fired from a security job for being too aggressive, did not sustain serious injuries in the fatal encounter.

Paperwork detailing the EMS response to the shooting scene shows that a call for a second ambulance was canceled.

An audiotape containing the EMS communications, also obtained by The News on Friday, records unidentified workers discussing the scene.
Zimmerman’s condition is mentioned briefly in the 30-minute recording."

“Do we have a second patient?” a man asks.

“That’s affirmative. We have a second patient,” a woman replies. “The second patient is not a gunshot.”

You can't get much more brief than that!

Again, "Paperwork detailing the EMS response to the shooting scene shows that a call for a second ambulance was canceled."

blue bm suggesting?

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

http://www.andersoncooper.com/2012/04/16/trayvon-martin-parents-brother-give-update/

Trayvon Martin's family appeared on ACooper yesterday afternoon..I did tune in for a bit..

Also, MO'Mara appeared as well via video...he doesn't think this case will go before a judge for at least 1 1/2-2 years...and still hasn't spoken with GZ about the facts that night...