17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #29

[csziggy]

Except that depends on when you are speaking of the confrontation starting.

It may in fact be that Trayvon did start the physical confrontation, I don't believe that, but if that is even so, the States Attorney's office appears to be saying that the confrontation started when GZ got out of his vehicle to follow Trayvon...that he had if not a lawful order, which I am sure some can and will argue was valid, but that he at the least had instructions from the LE dispatch to cease following Trayvon that he dismissed, and continued to follow, which in their opinion puts Trayvon squarely in the position of standing his ground. The second degree murder vs. manslaughter they have hands down, since they only have to show that whatever actions taken were done with malice or ill will to begin with, and the "Those A@@#$% always geet away, and the F*&in punks, will statisfy that requirement, and they are on tape in George Zimmerman's own voice and indisputable as to who said them and when.

Fact is, I think they have more, there was some discussion on one of the shows about a witness who saw two people running, one following the other, and if this is so, then even without evidence of who struck the first blow, if Zimmerman was actually chasing Martin, then he could not possibly have been standing his ground, and IMO Martin was found far too close to home for Martin to have been chasing Zimmerman. IMO JMHO and stuff.

Yes, the statement about the people running was part of the investigator's testimony just after 1:37:00 mark on the recording here:
George Zimmerman bond hearing
http://www.wral.com/news/video/11004815/#/vid11004815

 

[impatientredhead]

That's more than a little scary, IMO.

In all honesty I think it is absurd as well. If someone broke into the house while I was home alone the last thing I would do is reach for the gun, I am not comfortable with it. I was shocked I didn't have to take a class to get my gun license. Had to take a written and physical test when I wanted to drive, carry a concealed weapon, go ahead, feel free.

 

[MsCharlieChan]

Wonder where all the blood went, since it obviously did not drip on his collar or the back of his jacket or anywhere on his shirt.

Quite true, and also this... another reason the bloody head doesn't ring true ....

If your head is being rammed on the walkway more than once, I'd expect to see some SMEARED PATCHES of blood underneath the fresh trickles.

Then, if you had to "scooch" your head over into the grass, the grass would have rubbed the blood into a thin, smear patch as well... Over top of this smearing you would, again, see fresh streams trickling down.

This photo seems to show no evidence of smearing; it doesn't look like the head has been dragged over any grass.

Just like when you spill juice or soda and try to wipe it up, the towel (or concrete or grass) spreads it and smears it around.

This blood resembles organized chaos. AKA fakely applied in a way that doesn't match the actions explained by GZ.

 

[katydid23]

Except that depends on when you are speaking of the confrontation starting.

It may in fact be that Trayvon did start the physical confrontation, I don't believe that, but if that is even so, the States Attorney's office appears to be saying that the confrontation started when GZ got out of his vehicle to follow Trayvon...that he had if not a lawful order, which I am sure some can and will argue was valid, but that he at the least had instructions from the LE dispatch to cease following Trayvon that he dismissed, and continued to follow, which in their opinion puts Trayvon squarely in the position of standing his ground. The second degree murder vs. manslaughter they have hands down, since they only have to show that whatever actions taken were done with malice or ill will to begin with, and the "Those A@@#$% always geet away, and the F*&in punks, will statisfy that requirement, and they are on tape in George Zimmerman's own voice and indisputable as to who said them and when.

Fact is, I think they have more, there was some discussion on one of the shows about a witness who saw two people running, one following the other, and if this is so, then even without evidence of who struck the first blow, if Zimmerman was actually chasing Martin, then he could not possibly have been standing his ground, and IMO Martin was found far too close to home for Martin to have been chasing Zimmerman. IMO JMHO and stuff.

But he also said there was no evidence that GZ ignored the request not to follow and instead returned towards his truck. So that hurts the state , imo.

I agree about the mnslaughter. They should have arrested him for that the first night. But going after 2nd degree murder is too much, imo.

 

[impatientredhead]

Quite true, and also this... another reason the bloody head doesn't ring true ....

If your head is being rammed on the walkway more than once, I'd expect to see some SMEARED PATCHES of blood underneath the fresh trickles.

Then, if you had to "scooch" your head over into the grass, the grass would have rubbed the blood into a thin, smear patch as well... Over top of this smearing you would, again, see fresh streams trickling down.

This photo seems to show no evidence of smearing; it doesn't look like the head has been dragged over any grass.

Just like when you spill juice or soda and try to wipe it up, the towel (or concrete or grass) spreads it and smears it around.

This blood resembles organized chaos. AKA fakely applied in a way that doesn't match the actions explained by GZ.

I think it looks like the wound has already been cleaned and then bled again.

 

[Adrienne37]

I didn't see that anyone had posted this yet (if so, I apologize for the duplication), but CNN has a transcript of today's bond hearing. I find Gilbreath's testimony EXTREMELY interesting.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html

Thanks Painting for posting that. I believe the prosecution has a lot more evidence than they are willing to admit at this point and that is why Mr. Gilbreath came off at times as being evasive. Things I gathered from the hearing today are: 1. Zimmerman repeatedly changed his story, obviously to fit with what he was being questioned about at that time. 2. The injuries that he sustained are not consistent with any of the evidence that the state has at this point. 3. Every story he has brought forth, the state has witnesses to prove otherwise. 4. Zimmerman is not afraid to lie under oath so this will be a pattern that is repeated throughout the course of the trial. 5. His family is not above lying to support his claims as evidenced by their lies today under oath. 6. Zimmerman acting like he was a cop, with his choice of weapon, his bullets, and now finding out that he had tactical flashlights on his person when LE arrived at the scene. 7. Zimmerman really is a depraved individual.



~jmo~

 

[suzihawk]

I think it looks like the wound has already been cleaned and then bled again.

The picture was taken 3 minutes after the shooting - allegedly.

IMO

 

[Lake Erie Princess]

There is no medical documentation...and there is no indication that those injuries were sustained by having his head beat against concrete.

Lay on the floor, and see where your head is going to hit the floor...if it is on the crown of your head then something is vastly wrong....those injuries are in the wrong place for that. Those may in fact be injuries, and they may be on George Zimmermans head, but they did not get there in the manner that he claims that they did, and they did a remarkable job of not getting any blood on any of his clothes, since in the video taken 35 minutes after the incident he isn't even wrinkled, no muss or fuss at all. IMO JMHO and stuff.

I do not believe the pics of GZ's head are legitimate.
Where did the blood go from his clothing ? I saw none on tv.
Head wounds bleed a lot ! Something is not right with this picture.
IMO it was photoshopped ???

 

[m00c0w]

I do not believe the pics of GZ's head are legitimate.
Where did the blood go from his clothing ? I saw none on tv.
Head wounds bleed a lot ! Something is not right with this picture.
IMO it was photoshopped ???

What blood from his clothing?

 

[Reader]

Wonder where all the blood went, since it obviously did not drip on his collar or the back of his jacket or anywhere on his shirt. I will also say that IMO if the area they are showing is where his injuries were then the only way that Trayvon made those injuries by beating his head against concrete was if he was holding him upside down by his feet.

I certainly hope that there is more to that photograph than that, since that could have been anything smeared on his head, and in fact, there is no evidence that that is in fact a picture of George Zimmerman...I really hope that there is more to be seen here if they are going to claim this horrific injury IMO JMHO and stuff.

Tell the truth, it looks fake to me...there's all kinds of ways to make these types of photos...just in time for the bond hearing!

It would not be admissible as evidence anyway...

 

[Sensei]

Using your post as a jumping point.... everyone seems to be hanging a lot of this case on following TM in defiance of a police order. The 911 operator is not only not a police officer, what they actually said is "we don't need you to do that."

If they had the authority to give a citizen a legally binding order it wasn't even worded as one.

I have done many things/chores/favors for someone that said they didn't NEED me to do it.

Had TM gotten the gun away from GZ and shot GZ it would be relevant, say GZs family tried to sue someone, GZ would have been on notice that he his actions were not requested, not on behalf of the police department, yada yada

I think way too much weight is being given to the GZ didn't follow an order from the police. The police weren't there yet and the dispatcher didn't TELL him not to do anything. Just that it wasn't needed.

Yet in the Affidavit for Probable Cause, Ms. Corey's office clearly states

"When the Police dispatcher realized that Zimmerman was pursuing Martin, he instructed Zimmerman not to do that and that the responding officer would meet him. Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher and continued to follow Martin who was trying to return to his home.

It doesn't matter how we parse the semantics, the Florida States Attorney is taking the position that Zimmerman was TOLD not to continue to pursue, and that he knew perfectly well what was meant by that statement, and I can't say I disagree with her, english is NOT a foreign language to George Zimmerman.

 

[Adrienne37]

Why in the world would Zimmerman get on the witness stand and admit that he didn't know if the person he murdered was armed or not? Wouldn't an average person rather err on the side of caution instead of possibly taking the life of someone who was unarmed? Again, it fits with the reason that the prosecution is filing a second degree murder charge.

I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your son. I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am. And I did not know if he was armed or not.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html



~jmo~

 

[m00c0w]

Tell the truth, it looks fake to me...there's all kinds of ways to make these types of photos...just in time for the bond hearing!

It would not be admissible as evidence anyway...

BBM

Under what rule of evidence?

 

[impatientredhead]

Yet in the Affidavit for Probable Cause, Ms. Corey's office clearly states


It doesn't matter how we parse the semantics, the Florida States Attorney is taking the position that Zimmerman was TOLD not to continue to pursue, and that he knew perfectly well what was meant by that statement, and I can't say I disagree with her, english is NOT a foreign language to George Zimmerman.

The SA can take that stance, murder 2 was a political decision and bowing to public pressure. The jury is going to hear the semantics and an audio tape of the defendant being told he didn't NEED to follow TM.

 

[BritsKate]

Using your post as a jumping point.... everyone seems to be hanging a lot of this case on following TM in defiance of a police order. The 911 operator is not only not a police officer, what they actually said is "we don't need you to do that."

If they had the authority to give a citizen a legally binding order it wasn't even worded as one.

I have done many things/chores/favors for someone that said they didn't NEED me to do it.

Had TM gotten the gun away from GZ and shot GZ it would be relevant, say GZs family tried to sue someone, GZ would have been on notice that he his actions were not requested, not on behalf of the police department, yada yada

I think way too much weight is being given to the GZ didn't follow an order from the police. The police weren't there yet and the dispatcher didn't TELL him not to do anything. Just that it wasn't needed.

BBM

Neither though is Zimmerman and that's actually where I hang my hat. Regardless of the advice of 911 Zimmerman chose to pursue Trayvon both before 911 commented and in my opinion also afterward. He chose to act in a manner that could be construed as aggressive or threatening. JMO

 

[Sensei]

Quite true, and also this... another reason the bloody head doesn't ring true ....

If your head is being rammed on the walkway more than once, I'd expect to see some SMEARED PATCHES of blood underneath the fresh trickles.

Then, if you had to "scooch" your head over into the grass, the grass would have rubbed the blood into a thin, smear patch as well... Over top of this smearing you would, again, see fresh streams trickling down.

This photo seems to show no evidence of smearing; it doesn't look like the head has been dragged over any grass.

Just like when you spill juice or soda and try to wipe it up, the towel (or concrete or grass) spreads it and smears it around.

This blood resembles organized chaos. AKA fakely applied in a way that doesn't match the actions explained by GZ.

I agree, we have a term for someone who has an injury due to concrete or pavement, we call it road rash, a head repeatedly struck against concrete and then scooched over to get it on grass would not look like that, in fact there is far too much skin left on his head for that...concrete and pavement do a real number on skin, it takes it off in great big raw patches. IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[katydid23]

Thanks Painting for posting that. I believe the prosecution has a lot more evidence than they are willing to admit at this point and that is why Mr. Gilbreath came off at times as being evasive. Things I gathered from the hearing today are: 1. Zimmerman repeatedly changed his story, obviously to fit with what he was being questioned about at that time. 2. The injuries that he sustained are not consistent with any of the evidence that the state has at this point. 3. Every story he has brought forth, the state has witnesses to prove otherwise. 4. Zimmerman is not afraid to lie under oath so this will be a pattern that is repeated throughout the course of the trial. 5. His family is not above lying to support his claims as evidenced by their lies today under oath. 6. Zimmerman acting like he was a cop, with his choice of weapon, his bullets, and now finding out that he had tactical flashlights on his person when LE arrived at the scene. 7. Zimmerman really is a depraved individual.



~jmo~

bbm

BUT you cannot answer a question under oath AND HIDE EVIDENCE FROM THE DEFENSE. This was part of the trial. The lead investigator cannot say there is NO EVIDENCE to a question like that, if in fact there is. That is ILLEGAL.

 

[Adrienne37]

I agree, we have a term for someone who has an injury due to concrete or pavement, we call it road rash, a head repeatedly struck against concrete and then scooched over to get it on grass would not look like that, in fact there is far too much skin left on his head for that...concrete and pavement do a real number on skin, it takes it off in great big raw patches. IMO JMHO and stuff.

Sort of like hamburger meat I'd imagine??


~jmo~

 

[jjenny]

bbm

BUT you cannot answer a question under oath AND HIDE EVIDENCE FROM THE DEFENSE. This was part of the trial. The lead investigator cannot say there is NO EVIDENCE to a question like that, if in fact there is. That is ILLEGAL.

ITA. Prosecution can not hide evidence from the defense and will have to provide the defense with all the evidence they do have. So why in the world would prosecution side claim they don't have evidence if they did? They have to disprove Zimmerman's side of the story and I fail to see how they are going to do that, if they don't know who started the fight and who was following who.

 

[impatientredhead]

BBM

Neither though is Zimmerman and that's actually where I hang my hat. Regardless of the advice of 911 Zimmerman chose to pursue Trayvon both before 911 commented and in my opinion also afterward. He chose to act in a manner that could be construed as aggressive or threatening. JMO

I think GZ is an <mod snip> and guilty of manslaughter personally, but following someone is not illegal if you are not tresspasssing to do so. Private investigators get paid to do it daily, paparazzi make their living doing it, I can go outside right now and follow my neighbor while she walks her dog. Won't make me popular, but if I stay on the public ground and don't threaten or harrass her it wouldn't be illegal.

SYG only requires that you are legally entitled to be where you are and not in the commission of a crime.