17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #35

[Allusonz]

Andy Rooney once said, "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."

This is not directed to any one person in particular. I love the passion of the members here and am excited I finally decided to join in on the conversation. I think it is possible to feel one way and still see the facts objectively.

It is wonderful and refreshing to see individuals engaging with one another in a civil and respectful way online.

:welcome: Neige :welcome:

 

[orbison11]

if i saw a 6'3" male walking towards me i would not think of him as a child.............

JMO

 

[mikeysmommom]

Who is "they"? Crump has no part in this case, his place is not to depose witnesses, his place is to represent the family in a civil suit, which will probably come later.

Is that normal protocol - taking a witness statement over the phone at the news station with Matt Guttman? I did not know this.

Was she paid?

 

[KateNY]

From some of the diagrams/ maps ppl have posted ( if accurate representation)

TM would have had to pass by GZ truck, to get to from where he was, to where he was going

nothing sinister there

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

Why is it everyone forgets that TM came toward GZ's truck, and then took off running. Do you think this is going to tell a jury TM was scared? This is indisputable evidence. GZ said TM looked "really" suspicious, he didn't say there was a kid walking down the sidewalk. Why would an AA young man look suspicious walking down the sidewalk in a community that is 1/3 AA? TM took off running and then, apparently stopped somewhere for two full minutes. A jury is going to look at this, not at what the media has maliciously put out there to brainwash the public.

He couldn't have been "chasing" him - in order to have done that, TM would have had to wait two minutes for GZ to catch up with him. It's common sense, reality, and JMO

Let's say he did. Maybe he became curious? I don't know. That in and of itself doesn't eliminate a fear factor. Maybe Trayvon saw a gun? Is that possible? I myself don't know enough so will leave it at that.


Following someone as if its your job smacks of delusion, IMVHO. And BBM~yes he did say that. And from what is known about GZ in his own words and his surrogates' words, I think I have a different take on him than you. That's perfectly fine with me. Differing opinions make me think.

B&U What the media has maliciously put out there to brainwash the public.?

I see through it. You see through it. I'm confident others can see through it. I can see thru MOM's game already too. JMVHO.

 

[katydid23]

Good Question. I wonder if she got paid by ABC. That would be problematic.

 

[Allusonz]

Wow, good point. So her testimony could be thrown out completely because of the ABC interview? I certainly hope not, but it would explain a lot.

I would think the greater issue is the fact that she was interviewed first by the legal team representing the parents instead of being interviewed by the investigators of the SP.

I would not go so far as to state that it could be thrown out as none of us truly know what she has said or whether that "chain of custody" so to speak was indeed broken.

I am though of the belief that MOM was questioning the investigator not for her name as anyone simply needs to google it. It was my impression as I listened to the questions he was asking that he was trying to pin when the SP investigators actually interviewed her. JMOO

 

[m00c0w]

Doncha just wonder on what grounds a cop was going to stop this child and question him? GZ only told 911 he looked suspicious or something to that effect. He hadn't violated any laws. I would think that even if they did respond to the call of Mr. Zimmerman it was only to observe Trayvon. There was no reason to stop him even for law enforcement. I suppose they could have approached him legally and asked him a few questions, but that reeks of harrassment to me as there was no crime reported.

Also, as many times as GZ called 911 I doubt his call got priority and was pushed back to a courtesy call if law enforcement was going to come at all. I wonder if cops would have came there at all if GZ hadn't killed Trayvon? JMO

There was simply no reason for GZ or the police to be following Trayvon. It is not debatable and it is not going to fly with a jury. I fear that this kid was indeed profiled.

Really out.......goodnite

Police can follow someone and ask them whatever they want. That's not illegal, either.

You seem to be making a lot of assertions based on little fact. Please provide statutory laws that back up your claims of illegality. TIA.

 

[Sherbie]

This thinking confuse me. Maybe not unlawful but clearly disturbing IMO.

BBM----Isn't there something inherently creepy in doing so? I mean if anyone--male or female--was following me when I was a teen (I am female) I would have been freaked out big time. I would have thought they were out to do me harm.

As an adult, if I saw someone suspicious around my neighborhood and were concerned, I'd call the police and let them do their jobs. I believe that's the rational thing to do and to appoint oneself as someone who can just jump in with a gun and save the day from some phantom threat is IMVHO borderline delusional. Trayvon was the one who could have invoked SYG. If I'm walking home and find myself being followed by a stranger...I have the right to defend myself as the stranger came into my world.....But best to call LE.

Then, you've done (potentially) a public service and no one dies.

Good post, Helplessly Hoping. I agree - it's very disturbing. In imagining the possible scenarios that night, I can conceive of both TM and GZ at various times throughout the event being in a position to justly defend themselves, depending on what might have been happening at any given moment.

I hope a clear picture will emerge during trial. I'm worried that there is the potential to see justice denied in this case (from both the state and defense perspectives).

 

[katydid23]

I would think the greater issue is the fact that she was interviewed first by the legal team representing the parents instead of being interviewed by the investigators of the SP.

I would not go so far as to state that it could be thrown out as none of us truly know what she has said or whether that "chain of custody" so to speak was indeed broken.

I am though of the belief that MOM was questioning the investigator not for her name as anyone simply needs to google it. It was my impression as I listened to the questions he was asking that he was trying to pin when the SP investigators actually interviewed her. JMOO

OH GOOD point. I am sure he is very interested in that timeline. And the timeline that Crump officially put out there, about the days following the tragedy.

It will be interesting to see if it is accurate and verifiable.

 

[m00c0w]

This thinking confuse me. Maybe not unlawful but clearly disturbing IMO.

BBM----Isn't there something inherently creepy in doing so? I mean if anyone--male or female--was following me when I was a teen (I am female) I would have been freaked out big time. I would have thought they were out to do me harm.

As an adult, if I saw someone suspicious around my neighborhood and were concerned, I'd call the police and let them do their jobs. I believe that's the rational thing to do and to appoint oneself as someone who can just jump in with a gun and save the day from some phantom threat is IMVHO borderline delusional. Trayvon was the one who could have invoked SYG. If I'm walking home and find myself being followed by a stranger...I have the right to defend myself as the stranger came into my world.....But best to call LE.

Then, you've done (potentially) a public service and no one dies.

Unfortunately, you can't convict someone based on stupidity if they did not break the law. If you don't like that someone can follow you legally, write your legislators. However, as it stands, the law is the law. Morality, rationality, and legality often don't quite align.

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

Good post, Helplessly Hoping. I agree - it's very disturbing. In imagining the possible scenarios that night, I can conceive of both TM and GZ at various times throughout the event being in a position to justly defend themselves, depending on what might have been happening at any given moment.

I hope a clear picture will emerge during trial. I'm worried that there is the potential to see justice denied in this case (from both the state and defense perspectives).

I'm absolutely worried about the potential for justice. Moreso from the defense as I don't think the State is gonna totally tip its hand and you have GZ lobbyists all over the place--for a while there it was nearly impossible to watch cable and not see one or more of them. And maybe GZ was afraid but he had knowledge that LE was on the way and a gun in his hand. All he had to do was get in his car and drive away to be safe from whatever he thought was a threat. He's way more familiar with the neighborhood than Trayvon--GZ had every advantage IMO.

 

[vlpate]

From some of the diagrams/ maps ppl have posted ( if accurate representation)

TM would have had to pass by GZ truck, to get to from where he was, to where he was going

nothing sinister there

So which way did he run, according to these maps? He was running toward the back gate, according to the 911 call - he was walking down the "sidewalk" between the buildings, according to most news accounts and Tracy. So, please explain why, unless GZ was parked in the courtyard, TM had to go past his truck? TIA

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

Unfortunately, you can't convict someone based on stupidity if they did not break the law. If you don't like that someone can follow you legally, write your legislators. However, as it stands, the law is the law. Morality, rationality, and legality often don't quite align.

I don't disagree. They don't often align. But if we were talking about a man in his late 20's following a female teen, our thoughts would pretty much drift to dark places as most everyone would believe it wrong for an adult male to follow a female teenager. It would be considered really creepy.

I happen to have a more expansive view here and think following anyone is flat out strange behavior. ALL JMO

 

[vlpate]

I'm absolutely worried about the potential for justice. Moreso from the defense as I don't think the State is gonna totally tip its hand and you have GZ lobbyists all over the place--for a while there it was nearly impossible to watch cable and not see one or more of them. And maybe GZ was afraid but he had knowledge that LE was on the way and a gun in his hand. All he had to do was get in his car and drive away to be safe from whatever he thought was a threat. He's way more familiar with the neighborhood than Trayvon--GZ had every advantage IMO.

I've seen nothing but the opposite, but I don't get FoxNews, which is where I suspect most were opining?

 

[katydid23]

I've seen nothing but the opposite, but I don't get FoxNews, which is where I suspect most were opining?

Fox News has stayed away from this story almost completely. There has been very little coverage on Fox as far as I have seen.

 

[vlpate]

I don't disagree. They don't often align. But if we were talking about a man in his late 20's following a female teen, our thoughts would pretty much drift to dark places as most everyone would believe it wrong for an adult male to follow a female teenager. It would be considered really creepy.

I happen to have a more expansive view here and think following anyone is flat out strange behavior. ALL JMO

I don't think he was following him so much as watching where he was going, but stopped following/watching when he was told to stop, in so many words. JMO

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

I've seen nothing but the opposite, but I don't get FoxNews, which is where I suspect most were opining?

HLN. CNN. FOX. MSNBC. NBC etc. The media thread would have the outlets cited for the interviews. I think Fox was late to the game on this at the outset. JMO

 

[vlpate]

Fox News has stayed away from this story almost completely. There has been very little coverage on Fox as far as I have seen.

On really? I thought Hannity was covering it a lot. My mom watches only Fox and she knows all about it, so I just figured. Maybe she's reading on the net.

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

I don't think he was following him so much as watching where he was going, but stopped following/watching when he was told to stop, in so many words. JMO

BBM If he had stopped following/watching him, we wouldn't be having this conversation. JMO