17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #35

[tpgks]

It's nationwide.

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fbi/is/ncic.htm




Trayvon was stealing property from other states...if he had used the same car he drove across state lines to get to 7-11, he'd still be alive! :waitasec:

NCIC is practically worthless for items with no serial numbers or easily identifiable via sight.

 

[katydid23]

Why are we making a leap that GZ didn't? His school suspensions have nothing to do with his suspicious behavior that night. GZ described exactly what he thought was suspicious (walking about, walking toward me, staring, etc.) He never once mentions casing houses or any type of behavior that would be associated with stealing or burglary.

If we use the school suspensions, then let's use GZ's run ins with LE and his domestic violence history to show that he was violent and had a knack for picking on people more vulnerable than himself.

:moo::twocents:

How do we know GZ wasn't making that leap? That is exactly the leap he was making, imo. The reason he was suspicious in the first place was because of the recent break-ins, home invasions and burglaries by young black male suspects. So he sees TM, tall, wearing a hood, walking in the rain, around the back area of the complex,' looking about, '----to me that sounds like GZ THOUGHT TM was casing the area.

 

[vlpate]

And what if TM had identified himself? How would GZ have known that he told the truth and wasn't some *advertiser censored**ing, lying *advertiser censored*****e who would say anything to get away, like they always do?

And what if GZ had asked him his name and TM sucker punched him?

 

[raeann]

And I hope you know I respect that you have your opinion as well, and also the respectful dialogue.

re the bbm~

I don't either. I just think that, in this situation, it would have made more sense for Trayvon to have done so and, imo, could possibly have defused the situation to the point where we wouldn't be here discussing his untimely death. jmo

I agree....as we wouldn't be if GZ had showed the same courtesy, rolled down a truck window, stayed inside and said "hey, I'm with neighborhood watch, do you live here or are you a visitor, is there something I can help you with?" and HE WAS THE ADULT, supposedly experienced and educated by the NW training program etc.

WHY, then, was HE not expected to be polite and diffuse a possible conflict?

jmo

 

[rotterdam]

Yes, and there is no reason for Trayvon to fear that the guy following him was a random psychopath, but there is every reason for George to be suspicious of a black kid in a hoodie.

Lost here:waitasec: I hope you meant that sarcastically?

 

[vlpate]

Why are we making a leap that GZ didn't? His school suspensions have nothing to do with his suspicious behavior that night. GZ described exactly what he thought was suspicious (walking about, walking toward me, staring, etc.) He never once mentions casing houses or any type of behavior that would be associated with stealing or burglary.

If we use the school suspensions, then let's use GZ's run ins with LE and his domestic violence history to show that he was violent and had a knack for picking on people more vulnerable than himself.

:moo::twocents:

BEM: Here's what he said, since we are referencing the 911 call as being what actually happened now:

GZ: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there's this real suspicious guy retreat view circle, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good or he's on drugs or something -- he's just walking around, looking about..
Dispatcher: ... and this guy's white, black, or hispanic?
GZ: He looks black..
Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?
GZ: Yeah, a dark hoodie, like a gray hoodie and either jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. (unintelligible)..he's just staring
Dispatcher: Oh, he's just walking around the area?
GZ: Looking at all the houses

 

[Gaia713]

I never said he had to be respectful or polite. What I said was, I think he should have/might most logically have identified himself to avoid any escalation of the confrontation and to avoid being shot, if that was truly his fear in that moment. Not to be "polite," not because he was "obligated" to, just because, under all the circumstances I am aware of, it seems like it would have been the best thing to do. jmo

You are ascribing rational adult thinking to Martin. He was a teenager.

 

[Karmady]

I agree....as we wouldn't be if GZ had showed the same courtesy, rolled down a truck window, stayed inside and said "hey, I'm with neighborhood watch, do you live here or are you a visitor, is there something I can help you with?" and HE WAS THE ADULT, supposedly experienced and educated by the NW training program etc.

WHY, then, was HE not expected to be polite and diffuse a possible conflict?

jmo

I said what I thought about this question last night, upthread somewhere. Sorry I don't have time to find it now. Gots to work! But to sum it up, it seems clear that George didn't do this because, in his mind, he had already concluded that Trayvon was up to no good and didn't expect a valid answer. I said why I think that conclusion may not have been completely unreasonable under the circumstances in my prior post. :seeya:

 

[katydid23]

I agree....as we wouldn't be if GZ had showed the same courtesy, rolled down a truck window, stayed inside and said "hey, I'm with neighborhood watch, do you live here or are you a visitor, is there something I can help you with?" and HE WAS THE ADULT, supposedly experienced and educated by the NW training program etc.

WHY, then, was HE not expected to be polite and diffuse a possible conflict?

jmo

You are absolutely correct. GZ was entirely wrong for even getting out of his truck. And for that alone I think he should be found guilty of Manslaughter for setting up this entire tragedy.

But it does not follow that he is guilty of MURDER, imo. He was guilty of bad judgment and wild vigilanteism, for sure. But if TM was grappling with him over control of the gun, then IMO, GZ was forced to shoot. and that is involuntary manslaughter, imo, and not second degree murder.

 

[Gaia713]

BEM: Here's what he said, since we are referencing the 911 call as being what actually happened now:

GZ: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there's this real suspicious guy retreat view circle, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good or he's on drugs or something -- he's just walking around, looking about..
Dispatcher: ... and this guy's white, black, or hispanic?
GZ: He looks black..
Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?
GZ: Yeah, a dark hoodie, like a gray hoodie and either jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. (unintelligible)..he's just staring
Dispatcher: Oh, he's just walking around the area?
GZ: Looking at all the houses

Looking at houses is not the same as 'casing' them. Odds are that this is not his normal residence so he was checking his bearings. Where did Zimmerman think he would stash the goods that he was allegedly going to steal? He doesn't say he's hiding in the dark. He was just walking. I didn't know that was a crime in this country.

 

[vlpate]

I have no doubt Trayvon's parents taught him to use good judgment and to be a respectful and polite young man.

If only Trayvon had been polite, he wouldn't have been shot dead by a man on a mission? I just can't even wrap my head around such an absurd assumption!

My opinion.

IMO, it is not good judgment to ignore zero policy rules or write obscenities on property that doesn't belong to you - or to defy authority and refuse to answer questions about items that don't belong to you.

Sometimes it has nothing to do with how a child is raised, teens are a different breed and sometimes rebel against what they are taught.

JMO

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Several threads ago, we were discussing "illegal house parties" during which I mentioned a Lifetime movie that dealt with this subject. I was checking out the evening's entertainment on my Comcast TV grid and noticed that Dead At 17 is on today at 4:00 (Eastern) in case anyone is interested.

Plot Summary for
Dead at 17 (2008) (TV)

CEO Curt Masterson's slick son Cody and his docile brother Gabe organize a private party in pa's retreat cabin with teenage mates Ty and Jason. Curt's surprise treat is a pole dancer hired for lap dances, but bickering whether her $500 wages include an 'intimate service' end in her fatal fall from the stairs. The boys agree to dump her corps and hope there won't by a murder investigation, which could ruin their college prospects. Jason, of poorest stock, clearly can't re relied upon to keep the secret, and meets an untimely death too.

 

[elementary]

Lost here:waitasec: I hope you meant that sarcastically?

Just taking the logic to its absurd conclusion.

 

[grammieto5]

I wish. But, obviously, I can never speak from Trayvon's perspective because, although I have been 17 years old, I have never been a 17 yo male and have never been in that precise situation.

LOL me either (thank you God for making me female) I have raised a 17 year old boy. I had my second child (my son) before my first child (my oldest daughter) was a year old. These two have always been close they had all the same friends growing up, from K till 12th grade, our home was always filled with boys and girls. I have always and still do believe little boys are different in just the funny things they do. It's like they are in their own little world, so sweet! And if they are lucky they grown up and become "sweet" men. The fact that Trayvon's mom won't get to see Trayvon as a man, makes me sad for her. I'm also so sad for GZ's mom. Both mom's have lost their child, I think about how Trayvon's Mom will never get to laugh with him, or tease him the way only a mom can tease a son. And GZ's Mom, I'm pretty sure this is not what she thought her son would be doing. This is a very sad case, I am a little surprised at the anger. I agree with Trayvon's Mom Sybrina, it is a right and wrong case.

 

[BiancaS]

A theft report and a report of "found" jewelry items can be matched almost instantly by computer, it doesn't require that anyone look for a "perp" at all.

In fact, if someone sells jewelry to be melted down for the gold or silver, the buyer must post pictures online in a program for police access for this very reason.

 

[suzihawk]

I agree....as we wouldn't be if GZ had showed the same courtesy, rolled down a truck window, stayed inside and said "hey, I'm with neighborhood watch, do you live here or are you a visitor, is there something I can help you with?" and HE WAS THE ADULT, supposedly experienced and educated by the NW training program etc.

WHY, then, was HE not expected to be polite and diffuse a possible conflict?

jmo

I said what I thought about this question last night, upthread somewhere. Sorry I don't have time to find it now. Gots to work! But to sum it up, it seems clear that George didn't do this because, in his mind, he had already concluded that Trayvon was up to no good and didn't expect a valid answer. I said why I think that conclusion may not have been completely unreasonable under the circumstances in my prior post. :seeya:

Since Trayvon was being followed by a total stranger, he must have likewise felt GZ was up too no good. Yet, you expect Trayvon to be the one to be polite and diffuse a possible conflict and not GZ??

 

[rotterdam]

Just taking the logic to its absurd conclusion.

Got it. You just forgot the :banghead:
You had me worried there. Almost made it to my ignore list :floorlaugh:

 

[Donjeta]

How do we know GZ wasn't making that leap? That is exactly the leap he was making, imo. The reason he was suspicious in the first place was because of the recent break-ins, home invasions and burglaries by young black male suspects. So he sees TM, tall, wearing a hood, walking in the rain, around the back area of the complex,' looking about, '----to me that sounds like GZ THOUGHT TM was casing the area.

He was leaping all over the place like the Duracell bunny imo.
Looks like he's on drugs- leaping to possession and use of illegal narcotics.
just looking about- leaping to casing houses
he's coming to check me out, hand on waistband -thoughts leaping to the individual being a violent threat to George Zimmerman personally, and probably armed

 

[vlpate]

Looking at houses is not the same as 'casing' them. Odds are that this is not his normal residence so he was checking his bearings. Where did Zimmerman think he would stash the goods that he was allegedly going to steal? He doesn't say he's hiding in the dark. He was just walking. I didn't know that was a crime in this country.

He'd been there often. It was a straight shot. How does one "case" a house without "looking" at it.

He knew where the 7-11 was and he had been to the community often enough that the kids there looked forward to his visits, according to this article. http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/article1221799.ece


"Trayvon Martin lived with his dad, who resides in the Miami area, and had visited his dad's girlfriend at the Retreat several times before. The kids in the neighborhood always looked forward to playing football with him."

 

[Gin]

In fact, if someone sells jewelry to be melted down for the gold or silver, the buyer must post pictures online in a program for police access for this very reason.

Those policies probably vary from state to state.
I sold some unused jewelry recently. I had to fill out a little 3x5 card, stating I owed the items, was selling them, gave my info and DL #. The store gives that to the police. They may have taken a photo in the back, when they appraised them, don't know.
I got my $$ that day.