17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #35

[grammieto5]

The thing is, if it can't be reproduced by video and there is no article or interview that references it, then how is it determined as a fact that he did indeed say her name?

I understand you're saying It still reminds me of the "is this like the last time" statement which many of us heard, but later could not be found.

 

[LynnM]

Pedephiles, killers, psychopaths, etc. can also live in 'tiny' gated communities. In fact, a killer did live in THIS 'tiny' gated community, didn't he?

I believe that I read that there were over 200 homes in that community. There are 150 in mine. I only know seven families that I would recognize and I have lived here since 1979. I live in a low-crime middle-class suburb but last time I checked there were 6 registered sex offenders living nearby, not in my actual development but within walking distance.

 

[suzihawk]

Yes, they do. But my point was that they normally don't ask you what you are doing in the neighborhood before they harm you. Why would they care?

eta: there are also a lot better "targets" for such a person than a 6' tall 17 yo male -- like woman and children, for example.

I understand your point although I don't agree with it. Children and teenagers are kidnapped every single day, sadly. Pedephiles ask children to help them find their puppy in order to lure them. Since GZ was trying to keep Trayvon in his sight (allegedly), it's not a stretch to think he might try to engage him for that purpose.

JMO, of course.

 

[Gin]

Yes, they do. But my point was that they normally don't ask you what you are doing in the neighborhood before they harm you. Why would they care?

JMO/IMO
OK...So suggestions for children/teen safety...I'm just trying to get a handle on what parents should teach in a SYG, loaded 9mm age.

1. If a stranger talks nicely to you, that means they are nice.... Just be sure to stop, answer them equally politely. When they tell you that you can go, then you can leave. :waitasec:

 

[pcrum12]

The link that you posted earlier yourself clearly states that "NO EVIDENCE" ever surfaced that it was reported stolen.

I know for an absolute fact that insurance companies will NOT reimburse for stolen jewelry without a police report being filed. So that excuse/theory won't fly either.

jmo

I've had jewelry stolen and yes I had to file a police report and send to insurance co in order to have claim paid. However, filing a police report does not identify the thief. Nor does it insure that police will find or even LOOK for the perp. imo

 

[pcrum12]

:rocker:

I have never seen anyone at WS state Trayvon deserved to die.
NEVER

Why is it constantly stated?

Obviously, there are several who believe this was self defense. But, that does not mean anybody thinks TM deserved to die. It does not mean we don't have hearts and that we don't feel empathy for TM's family.

It simply means, that with the information seen so far, some feel GZ acted in self defense.

That is a major component in this case.

JMO

:rocker:

 

[raeann]

I've had jewelry stolen and yes I had to file a police report and send to insurance co in order to have claim paid. However, filing a police report does not identify the thief. Nor does it insure that police will find or even LOOK for the perp. imo

A theft report and a report of "found" jewelry items can be matched almost instantly by computer, it doesn't require that anyone look for a "perp" at all.

 

[grammieto5]

I'm not blaming or faulting anyone, nor am I placing an onus. I just wrote what my thoughts are on the subject. I also explained why I think George may not have identified himself first, and what I don't understand about why Trayvon did not identify himself - especially if he thought he was about to be shot. The other side of those explanations has been offered many times over, so it's not like I felt I needed to cover those explanations again in my posts.

So now kids need to identify themselves when they approached by a stranger????

 

[Karmady]

JMO/IMO
OK...So suggestions for children/teen safety...I'm just trying to get a handle on what parents should teach in a SYG, loaded 9mm age.

1. If a stranger talks nicely to you, that means they are nice.... Just be sure to stop, answer them equally politely. When they tell you that you can go, then you can leave. :waitasec:

First, I don't think asking someone what you are doing in the neighborhood is a *nice* question to ask, necessarily. And I would bet it wasn't asked particularly nicely in this case. Certainly different than just saying hi, how're you doing? Or, to take suzi's classic example, can you help me find my puppy?

Second, what I would tell my little kid v. my teenaged son might be quite different. But I don't have a teenaged son, so I don't know that yet. What I do know, is that he will be unlikely to listen to me no matter what I say lol

All I can say is that you can't prepare your kids for every eventuality, so all you can do is teach them to use good judgment in the particular circumstance, and provide them with examples of what they might do if such and such happens. Honestly, and to your point, I don't think the precise scenario of this case is something that any parent previously would have thought to provide specific advice about. I just think that, given what is undisputed (at this point) about the exchange between Trayvon and George, that the best thing to do may have been for Trayvon just to have identified himself, and also that the argument that he was in legit fear of a random psychopath doesn't make too much sense to me under the circumstances.

jmo

 

[katydid23]

A theft report and a report of "found" jewelry items can be matched almost instantly by computer, it doesn't require that anyone look for a "perp" at all.

How do we know anybody filled out a stolen jewelry report?

And if they were in different states then it would not automatically all be pooled together.

 

[elementary]

Why is the onus on Trayvon?

he had no issues-he had no idea who this nutcase following him was. Wouldn't/shouldn't the onus be on the follower? The guy who knew what was going on? The one who decided Trayvon was suspicious and needed to be stopped and prevented from getting away? Why didn't George identify HIMSELF?

I really don't understand this insistence that Trayvon was at fault here. Trayvon had no clue what was going on. George was in total control of everything including all the information. He decided everything, that TM was suspicious, that 911 needed to be called, that he needed his gun, that he needed to follow him with his gun. We are seriously expected to understand and agree that if someone is following us-we have the responsibility to establish who WE are, we should assume the follower is an innocent law abiding citizen with no evil intent? I'm not that stupid and I certainly wouldn't advise my teenage sons to take this approach.

If someone like George is going to undertake to play cop then he needs to follow cop rules and identify himself at the earliest opporunity which would have been back when he was sitting in his car watching Trayvon walk by. He needed to open his darn window and ask Trayvon a question about who he was, where he was going, etc if he wanted to know. That would have been reasonable and sensible. But he needed to escalate the situation and to follow and prevent him from getting away like all the other a#$holes did.

How this ends up being Trayvon's fault requires mental gymnastics the likes of which even the Soviets in the 70's couldn't manage.

I really like your post. I find it disturbing that following someone is purported to be "legal" because there is no law against it and therefore that's all that matters. That using a gun against an unarmed boy who was just minding his own business is legal. That wearing a hoodie and being black makes one a person suspected of something illegal. Suspicion and paranoia run rampant. Not only that, they are legitimised by a large majority of people. If you can be questioned by a perfect stranger, and it's perfectly legal and kosher, while walking down the street, you have lost your freedom. Add a concealed gun and you may lose your life.

Totalitarianism breeds paranoia, and is driven by ideology. I see little difference between other regimes in history and what is happening now. As a mere observer, I think ideology seems to be running roughshod over true freedom and down in Florida, you are only truly free if you carry a gun. When I can no longer walk down the street because it is someone's right, who has no authority, to accost me and question my right to be walking down the street, it's time for me to find another country to live in; it isn't safe. Shades of the past. Truly scary. Especially because people like to righteously fool themselves about it, with, as you say, a lot of mental gymnastics (aka tortured logic).

Thanks for a thoughtful post.

 

[RANCH]

A theft report and a report of "found" jewelry items can be matched almost instantly by computer, it doesn't require that anyone look for a "perp" at all.

Is this computer system for matching stolen items limited to local thefts or is this nationwide?

 

[Gaia713]

:rocker:

:rocker:

Self-defense only applies to defending your LIFE against attack. What did Zimmerman see that made him fear for his life. Self-defense does not mean attacking someone because you THINK they MIGHT be a burglar.

Legal definition of self-defense: A person claiming self-defense must prove at trial that the self-defense was justified. Generally a person may use reasonable force when it appears reasonably necessary to prevent an impending injury. A person using force in self-defense should use only so much force as is required to repel the attack. Nondeadly force can be used to repel either a nondeadly attack or a deadly attack.Deadly Force may be used to fend off an attacker who is using deadly force but may not be used to repel an attacker who is not using deadly force. (bold is my emphasis)

Clearly Zimmerman's use of deadly force was NOT self-defense.

 

[Gaia713]

Is this computer system for matching stolen items limited to local thefts or is this nationwide?

I don't know. California has linkups to all pawn shops for this purpose. I would hope most states would also have it. But I don't know if it's national or not.

 

[grammieto5]

If you flip it around, of course Trayvon could have felt, and probably did feel, that he belonged where he was. However, he also likely did realize, imo, that he was not in a neighborhood where he is familiar to the neighbors. But most importantly, he was in tiny gated community at the time. I believe it only had three streets or so. He wasn't walking down a public street or in an obviously dangerous neighborhood where, imo, you might more reasonably draw the conclusion that someone who was following you and asked what you were doing there was just some random creeper. I live in a similarly tiny gated community and I would assume, I think reasonably based on that question, that whomever was following me didn't intend to throw me into his vehicle or similar. To my mind, it's just not a question that is likely to be asked by a predator. It's a question that would be asked by someone who also belonged where they were and is suspicious of what *I* was doing there. Rightly or wrongly. jmo

I'm guessing you're not a barely 17 year old ?????

 

[Donjeta]

And what if TM had identified himself? How would GZ have known that he told the truth and wasn't some *advertiser censored**ing, lying *advertiser censored*****e who would say anything to get away, like they always do?

 

[raeann]

How do we know anybody filled out a stolen jewelry report?

And if they were in different states then it would not automatically all be pooled together.

The conclusion offered, earlier in the post that started the discussion, was that the owner would have not reported it stolen, just gotten their insurance money and moved on. The TRUTH of the matter is, that IF there was a THEFT, there would have to be a police report in order to turn it in to insurance. Since there was NO REPORT OF STOLEN JEWELRY....the logical conclusion is it was NOT stolen.

The idea proposed in the quoted post....that somehow TM must have stolen the jewelry in ANOTHER STATE, without a car to get there.....and then come back to Miami (no other state anywhere within many, many HOURS of that city) doesn't seem in any way based in logic-- even if one WANTS to assume the items were stolen.

JMO of course.

 

[Elley Mae]

I don't know. California has linkups to all pawn shops for this purpose. I would hope most states would also have it. But I don't know if it's national or not.

Some people don't know that their jewelry has/had been taken for a long time, they may not wear certain pieces of jewelry every day to notice it missing.

 

[katydid23]

Is this computer system for matching stolen items limited to local thefts or is this nationwide?

Our town recently busted a theft ring and they had all of the stolen goods on tables at a police station and had people come with proof of ownership if it was their property, because the cops needed help identifying who the property belonged to.

So I have a hard time believing there is a magic, thorough database of all stolen property nationwide, that will instantly ID stolen jewelry. JMO

 

[Gin]

First, I don't think asking someone what you are doing in the neighborhood is a *nice* question to ask, necessarily. And I would bet it wasn't asked particularly nicely in this case. Certainly different than just saying hi, how're you doing? Or, to take suzi's classic example, can you help me find my puppy?

Second, what I would tell my little kid v. my teenaged son might be quite different. But I don't have a teenaged son, so I don't know that yet. What I do know, is that he will be unlikely to listen to me no matter what I say lol

All I can say is that you can't prepare your kids for every eventuality, so all you can do is teach them to use good judgment in the particular circumstance, and provide them with examples of what they might do if such and such happens. Honestly, and to your point, I don't think the precise scenario of this case is something that any parent previously would have thought to provide specific advice about. I just think that, given what is undisputed (at this point) about the exchange between Trayvon and George, that the best thing to do may have been for Trayvon just to have identified himself, and also that the argument that he was in legit fear of a random psychopath doesn't make too much sense to me under the circumstances.

jmo

JMO/IMO
I am respectful this is your opinion.

I'm not sure GZ was a random psychopath, but he certainly wasn't a good guy that night.

I will always be protective of children and teens. I don't believe they have any obligation to reassure armed adults of their "intent".
I hope at some point sanity returns to Florida. It is still part of the USA, isn't it???? You know, personal freedom and all that jazz???