17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #35

[LambChop]

You keep changing your point of reference. First you said fingerprints were circumstantial. They are. Then you said shell casing weren't. They are. Now you have leap frogged to GZs words, which aren't circumstantial they are direct evidence.

They would only be circumstantial if he did not admit shooting TM but he did. There is no inference GZ openly admitted he shot TM. So GZ's statements that he shot TM are direct evidence, so would be the shell casing, the bullet, the gun because GZ is not denying he shot TM. GZ fingerprints would be on the gun if he admitted he shot him, it's not a question, or a hint, or an inteference. I believe it would be considered direct evidence and a fact in terms of who shot TM. jmo

 

[Adrienne37]

Common sense tells me that if DA Corey had any tests showing Trayvon was the one screaming that would have ended up in affidavit. Saying his mother identified his voice suggests to me that tests are inconclusive and no good. If Corey wants to present mother's testimony at trial that its Trayvon screaming, all defense has to do is put Zimmerman's relatives on the stand who will say its Zimmerman screaming.

Why? The judge obviously felt there was enough information in the affidavit to sign off on it so exactly why did she need to put anything else in it?



~jmo~

 

[LambChop]

Common sense tells me that if DA Corey had any tests showing Trayvon was the one screaming that would have ended up in affidavit. Saying his mother identified his voice suggests to me that tests are inconclusive and no good. If Corey wants to present mother's testimony at trial that its Trayvon screaming, all defense has to do is put Zimmerman's relatives on the stand who will say its Zimmerman screaming.

Not sure they could present that as evidence because SA did not do the testing. They did, however, interview Mrs. Martin. jmo

 

[impatientredhead]

They would only be circumstantial if he did not admit shooting TM but he did. There is no inference GZ openly admitted he shot TM. So GZ's statements that he shot TM are direct evidence, so would be the shell casing, the bullet, the gun because GZ is not denying he shot TM. GZ fingerprints would be on the gun if he admitted he shot him, it's not a question, or a hint, or an inteference. I believe it would be considered direct evidence and a fact in terms of who shot TM. jmo

Feel free to ignore the three reference I have provided that say physical evidence is circumstantial evidence.

 

[Zak]

1. Which of the 5 statements that Zimmerman gave was the one that stated Trayvon had his hands over his mouth?

2. Do you happen to have a link that these experts have been discredited?

3. Zimmerman's family have many inconsistencies in their statements to the media which makes them very unreliable for any source of accurate information.



~jmo~

1. Since I was only replying to the poster that mentioned the statement by GZ regarding Trayvon puttings his hands over GZ's mouth, then you would need to ask that poster. Although it was brought up at the bond hearing as were the number of statements GZ had given to LE. (GZ said 3 and the state mentioned 5)

2. I will see if I can find a link for the article as soon as I find the article again because I didn't save it on my computer.

3. That is your opinion of the credibility of the Zimmerman's. I prefer to wait until I have seen all of the evidence before I can agree with you.

 

[Boytwnmom]

and this was the LAST thing that happened-hands over both nose and mouth (this was AFTER his head was pounded against the concrete until he was almost in diapers) and the screaming stops suddenly just when Trayvon gets shot dead and George could then freely scream all he wanted-so why did he stop then?

Why would you be "screaming" if someone has their hands over your nose and mouth-wouldn't you be "fighting" them off since they are using their hands, rather than screaming, after all you'd just had your nose broken and your head slammed repeatedly into concrete and now you were being suffocated and so you expend your energy screaming? I think the SA and their evidence is going to easily prove this story as ridiculous as it sounds.

The person screaming was screaming in "fear" for this life, not in pain, in fear and once his life was taken, he stopped. I have no doubt George might have yelled at some point, but he was no way the person screaming in primal fear at the end when he was supposedly being suffocated by all of Trayvons hands, which of course is also stupid as if Trayvon was using his hands to suffocate him it would have been easy to escape him.

I mean, people can believe whatever "story" they want but I like the simple truth, someone who sounds like he's screaming in fear for his life is likely the guy without the gun who ends up dead, especially when the other guy appears on video less than 1/2 hour later walking steadily while handcuffed looking none the worse for wear with perfectly clean and unwrinkled clothes.

Ok, this is my explaination:

1. IMO by GZ's own statement that Trayvon was covering his mouth and nose would explain why the screams we can all hear on the 911 call are not constant, but start and stop. And that would mean that GZ was moving Trayvon's hands away from his mouth, then GZ would let out a scream and Trayvon would cover the mouth again.

2. I read somewhere that these so called experts had been discredited. Therefore I am going to wait until I read the FBI report.

3. Zimmerman's family identified the screams as having come from GZ.

 

[Phoenixfla]

Let's assume he wouldn't. What did he have to lose if he heard new FBI results that were unfavorable to his client? The results would be sure to come out anyway.

By asking at the bond hearing, O'Mara tried to get them early. Didn't work. They weren't available or the results themselves weren't responsive to O'Mara's question (i.e., they didn't positively i.d. TM, though they may have excluded GZ).

If they unanimously excluded GZ, wouldn't you consider that insight?

I content that if Gilbreath answered anything other than "no" to the question "Has that given any insight as to the voice?", the next question would have been "What was determined" and whatever his answer was (1. Conclusively TM screaming, 2. Conclusively GZ screaming, 3. Results were inconclusive) would have been the headline of every paper the next day. I'll give you that answer #2 and #3 would have benefited GZ , but answer #1 would have completely sunk him.

 

[LambChop]

Feel free to ignore the three reference I have provided that say physical evidence is circumstantial evidence.

Oh, I didn't ignore them. Most people in murder cases don't admit shooting the victim so evidence would be circumstantial. This case is different GZ does admit to shooting TM. There is no question. Circumstantial evidence comes in when there is a question. There is no question here that GZ shot TM because he admits it. Admits this was his gun, the missing bullet is in TM's body and the shell casing came from his gun. It's all physical evidence because there is no question, no challenge from the defendant, he openly admits it. jmo

 

[Yoda]

Wouldn't the flash still be from the second story balcony though. That pictures looks as if the flash is right on top of his head. jmo

The iPhone doesn't have a flash does it? I'll have to go look.

 

[LambChop]

If they unanimously excluded GZ, wouldn't you consider that insight?

I content that if Gilbreath answered anything other than "no" to the question "Has that given any insight as to the voice?", the next question would have been "What was determined" and whatever his answer was (1. Conclusively TM screaming, 2. Conclusively GZ screaming, 3. Results were inconclusive) would have been the headline of every paper the next day. I'll give you that answer #2 and #3 would have benefited GZ , but answer #1 would have completely sunk him.

It was just a bond hearing. He answered the question correctly. Take from it what you will. He knows what he meant and so does MOM. jmo

 

[Adrienne37]

I believe only the iPhone 4 has flash.


~jmo~

 

[LambChop]

and this was the LAST thing that happened-hands over both nose and mouth (this was AFTER his head was pounded against the concrete until he was almost in diapers) and the screaming stops suddenly just when Trayvon gets shot dead and George could then freely scream all he wanted-so why did he stop then?

Why would you be "screaming" if someone has their hands over your nose and mouth-wouldn't you be "fighting" them off since they are using their hands, rather than screaming, after all you'd just had your nose broken and your head slammed repeatedly into concrete and now you were being suffocated and so you expend your energy screaming? I think the SA and their evidence is going to easily prove this story as ridiculous as it sounds.

The person screaming was screaming in "fear" for this life, not in pain, in fear and once his life was taken, he stopped. I have no doubt George might have yelled at some point, but he was no way the person screaming in primal fear at the end when he was supposedly being suffocated by all of Trayvons hands, which of course is also stupid as if Trayvon was using his hands to suffocate him it would have been easy to escape him.

I mean, people can believe whatever "story" they want but I like the simple truth, someone who sounds like he's screaming in fear for his life is likely the guy without the gun who ends up dead, especially when the other guy appears on video less than 1/2 hour later walking steadily while handcuffed looking none the worse for wear with perfectly clean and unwrinkled clothes.

I would think anyone who put their hand over your mouth and nose better expect to get bitten. Wouldn't it be a reflex action to try and bite someone whose hand is pressing down on your mouth???? jmo

 

[Yoda]

Does anyone know when the document dump is going to happen? I thought they said it was supposed to be yesterday? Tia

 

[Phoenixfla]

the detective wasn't scheduled to testify and wasn't even called specifically so he obviously had not prepared and reviewed anything in anticipation of testimony as one normally would. It is easy enough to have later testimony introduce evidence that he didn't disclose during the bail hearing he wasn't even scheduled to testify at. He purposely called someone NOT prepared to testify and tried to make it look like the state didn't have anything. The state knew he would get bond-they had no dog in the fight and certainly weren't going to go out of their way to bite the hook on MOM's fishing expedition.

If it was a possibility that the signers of the probable cause affidavit could be called, the SA should have been prepared for it. Now they could have told him specifically not to be there (maybe grab some lunch with RZ:floorlaugh, that would have been prepared, and MOM would have not had an opportunity to call him.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Hi everyone,

I don't have time to wade through all the previous threads but what happened yesterday regarding the issue of unsealing documents?

Sorry if this has already been discussed.

Thanks.

Sorry to bump my own post, but anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

 

[LambChop]

If they unanimously excluded GZ, wouldn't you consider that insight?

I content that if Gilbreath answered anything other than "no" to the question "Has that given any insight as to the voice?", the next question would have been "What was determined" and whatever his answer was (1. Conclusively TM screaming, 2. Conclusively GZ screaming, 3. Results were inconclusive) would have been the headline of every paper the next day. I'll give you that answer #2 and #3 would have benefited GZ , but answer #1 would have completely sunk him.

But he can't testify to that because he's not the person who conducted the test. The question was about the voice and did he have an insight as to the voice. He does not have to conclude anything because he will never be called to testify regarding whose voice it was because he's not the expert. Remember he is under oath so he can't testify about information he has no first hand knowledge about. So the answer would have been "no". Which is the answer MOM wanted. jmo

 

[LambChop]

If it was a possibility that the signers of the probable cause affidavit could be called, the SA should have been prepared for it. Now they could have told him specifically not to be there (maybe grab some lunch with RZ:floorlaugh, that would have been prepared, and MOM would have not had an opportunity to call him.

It was just a bond hearing. I don't think what MOM did was normal for a bond hearing. Camera do funny things to defense attorneys. lol

 

[Dr.Fessel]

and this was the LAST thing that happened-hands over both nose and mouth (this was AFTER his head was pounded against the concrete until he was almost in diapers) and the screaming stops suddenly just when Trayvon gets shot dead and George could then freely scream all he wanted-so why did he stop then?

Why would you be "screaming" if someone has their hands over your nose and mouth-wouldn't you be "fighting" them off since they are using their hands, rather than screaming, after all you'd just had your nose broken and your head slammed repeatedly into concrete and now you were being suffocated and so you expend your energy screaming? I think the SA and their evidence is going to easily prove this story as ridiculous as it sounds.

The person screaming was screaming in "fear" for this life, not in pain, in fear and once his life was taken, he stopped. I have no doubt George might have yelled at some point, but he was no way the person screaming in primal fear at the end when he was supposedly being suffocated by all of Trayvons hands, which of course is also stupid as if Trayvon was using his hands to suffocate him it would have been easy to escape him.

I mean, people can believe whatever "story" they want but I like the simple truth, someone who sounds like he's screaming in fear for his life is likely the guy without the gun who ends up dead, especially when the other guy appears on video less than 1/2 hour later walking steadily while handcuffed looking none the worse for wear with perfectly clean and unwrinkled clothes.

I think it is really hard to wrestle someone when you have a gun in one hand. IMO Probably end up on the bottom at some point in time. IMO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Sorry to bump my own post, but anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

No gag order and both sides want to delete the names of the witnesses from the document dumps.

 

[LambChop]

Does anyone know when the document dump is going to happen? I thought they said it was supposed to be yesterday? Tia

I believe it was MOM who asked the State to hold up on the release of discovery until they could seal the names of some of the witnesses. jmo