17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #35

[uvamerica]

Any evidence other than a statement made by a witness is circumstantial evidence. Circumstantial evidence requires that you interpret the evidence or draw a conclusion. Finger prints are circumstantial evidence.

What ? we have not seen the evidence the state has yet ,so I don't know where you coming from. Who's to say the state does not have some physical evidence ?

 

[LambChop]

Your post left me with the impression that you were concerned < mod snip > that no one was attending to TM while the photograph was being shot. Goodness, that would be negligent! Anyway, I thought the report might help assuage your concern.

Just FYI - Taking a picture "close up" doesn't mean the photographer has to be standing over the person - there are features on smart phones that make it possible to zoom in from quite a distance away - my iPhone has a zoom feature such as this. Whomever took the photo could have been on a second floor even. JMO

Wouldn't the flash still be from the second story balcony though. That pictures looks as if the flash is right on top of his head. jmo

 

[Zak]

HOW his client was SCREAMING while his mouth and nose were covered according George's OWN statement? Seriously, those of you who believe it was George screaming explain that position in light of (1) his own statement; (2) the two experts who found otherwise; (3) TRayvons parents identification. How do you scream while your mouth and nose are covered?

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html

Ok, this is my explaination:

1. IMO by GZ's own statement that Trayvon was covering his mouth and nose would explain why the screams we can all hear on the 911 call are not constant, but start and stop. And that would mean that GZ was moving Trayvon's hands away from his mouth, then GZ would let out a scream and Trayvon would cover the mouth again.

2. I read somewhere that these so called experts had been discredited. Therefore I am going to wait until I read the FBI report.

3. Zimmerman's family identified the screams as having come from GZ.

 

[LambChop]

Forensic evidence supplied by an expert witness is usually circumstantial evidence. A forensic scientist who testifies that ballistics proves the defendant’s firearm killed the victim gives circumstantial evidence from which the defendant’s guilt may be inferred. (Note that an inference of guilt could be incorrect if the person who actually fired the weapon was somebody else.)

Circumstantial evidence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A bullet would be physical evidence. The shell casing is physical evidence. The body found in the location a distance from where GZ said he was attacked is physical evidence. The gun is physical evidence. The phone was physical evidence, phone records, etc. All physical evidence because GZ is not saying he did not shoot TM. He admitted it. jmo

 

[Nova]

I think he would have waited for discovery rather than ask at the bond hearing if he didn't know the answer. He has no reason to want the Judge to know that information for the bond unless he knows the answer is favorable to him and he is, imo, in no hurry to get before the court on the substantive issues. jmo

With all due respect, that makes no sense. The detail of who was screaming means little in determining whether GZ is a flight risk.

It was O'Mara who chose to use the bond hearing as a fishing expedition, looking for details of the State's evidence. Why, I don't know, since the discovery deadline was imminent. I'm sure he had his reasons, however, and it makes no sense to argue that he was "in no hurry to get before the court on the substantive issues". He was the one asking about such things.

O'Mara may well have known that FBI tests as of that date did no more than exclude GZ (just as the Sentinel's had done). After all, that much had been reported in the press and his question was carefully worded to ask for a positive i.d., not whether conclusions could be drawn from exclusions. But I don't understand some people's insistence that the questioning shows FBI tests have CONTRADICTED what has been reported.

 

[Adrienne37]

Ok, this is my explaination:

1. IMO by GZ's own statement that Trayvon was covering his mouth and nose would explain why the screams we can all hear on the 911 call are not constant, but start and stop. And that would mean that GZ was moving Trayvon's hands away from his mouth, then GZ would let out a scream and Trayvon would cover the mouth again.

2. I read somewhere that these so called experts had been discredited. Therefore I am going to wait until I read the FBI report.

3. Zimmerman's family identified the screams as having come from GZ.

1. Which of the 5 statements that Zimmerman gave was the one that stated Trayvon had his hands over his mouth?

2. Do you happen to have a link that these experts have been discredited?

3. Zimmerman's family have many inconsistencies in their statements to the media which makes them very unreliable for any source of accurate information.



~jmo~

 

[Phoenixfla]

I would think MOM would want to know if the FBI was still doing an investigation and who the investigator was that is assigned to the case. Just a guess but as I said before the FBI gives up nothing willingly because at this point they don't have to. And I am also guessing if the State had those results MOM might expect to have them also. jmo

Are you saying that the FBI has results, but has not released them to the SA?

Cause he uses past tense to describe the analysis.

GILBREATH: The "Orlando Sentinel" had someone do it and the FBI has had someone do it.

I would think if the FBI was still analyzing it he would have said the FBI is having someone do it.

 

[impatientredhead]

What ? we have not seen the evidence the state has yet ,so I don't know where you coming from. Who's to say the state does not have some physical evidence ?

Physical evidence IS circumstantial evidence.
CE is not a bad thing, or lesser than evidence.
It only means that you have to make an inference about it.

 

[uvamerica]

A bullet would be physical evidence. The shell casing is physical evidence. The body found in the location a distance from where GZ said he was attacked is physical evidence. The gun is physical evidence. The phone was physical evidence, phone records, etc. All physical evidence because GZ is not saying he did not shoot TM. He admitted it. jmo

The pictures of GZ's wounds (if taken by LE) are physical evidence
I think the state has plenty of evidence, the circumstantial evidence is icing on the cake. MOO

 

[LambChop]

Ok, this is my explaination:

1. IMO by GZ's own statement that Trayvon was covering his mouth and nose would explain why the screams we can all hear on the 911 call are not constant, but start and stop. And that would mean that GZ was moving Trayvon's hands away from his mouth, then GZ would let out a scream and Trayvon would cover the mouth again.

2. I read somewhere that these so called experts had been discredited. Therefore I am going to wait until I read the FBI report.

3. Zimmerman's family identified the screams as having come from GZ.

Yes, we all heard the family at the bond hearing. GZ never getting angry, not once in 5 years. How he's always been 100 percent honest. I believe this whole family believes what they want to believe about GZ. Does not mean it is true. jmo

 

[Nova]

Not picking in you, but that is not exactly what he asked:

I believe detectives are taught to answer very carefully under oath.

I realize O'Mara used very general (some might say sloppy) language in asking whether the tests had given Gilbreath "any insight as to the voice". The witness might have taken that language as an invitation to deduce the identity of the screamer based on the exclusions of GZ (just as posters have done here).

But I think that would have gone against Gilbreath's training, particularly when he was not expecting to testify and had not been prepped by the D.A. Since the testing had not produced a positive i.d., the safest answer was "No."

Of course, it's also positive that the press reports have been wrong and the D.A. has decided all test results to date are too inconclusive to be reliable. And so Corey has decided to rely on TM's mother instead.

 

[Ambrosia]

POST 275 (SCREECH TYPE SOUND AT 7:12:44 any guesses?) Could it be a pet bird on someones porch? An cockatoo screech sound.

Cockatoo screech sound at 14sec. and 2min:48 http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=OFm9_0jGhaI&feature=endscreen

 

[Boytwnmom]

"I don't know" to a question about whether something gave you insight? That doesn't really make sense.

If that were the case, the answer is "I don't know"

 

[LambChop]

Physical evidence IS circumstantial evidence.
CE is not a bad thing, or lesser than evidence.
It only means that you have to make an inference about it.

I don't think there is an inference that TM was shot dead by GZ. He admitted it. Admitted it was his gun, his shell casing. I don't think GZ was giving "hints" I believe he openly admitted he shot TM. No one has to draw a conclusion about that part. jmo

 

[impatientredhead]

http://www.cengagesites.com/academic/assets/sites/4827/Bertino_Chapter2.pdf

Circumstantial evidence is indirect evidence that can be used to imply a
fact but that does not directly prove it. No one, other than the suspect and
victim, actually sees when circumstantial evidence is left at the crime scene.
But circumstantial evidence found at a crime scene may provide a link
between a crime scene and a suspect. For example, finding a suspect&#8217;s gun
at the site of a shooting is circumstantial evidence of the suspect&#8217;s presence
there.
Circumstantial evidence can be either physical or biological in nature.
Physical evidence includes impressions such as fingerprints, footprints, shoe
prints, tire impressions, and tool marks. Physical evidence also includes
fibers, weapons, bullets, and shell casings. Biological evidence includes
body fluids, hair, plant parts, and natural fibers. Most physical evidence,
with the exception of fingerprints, reduces the number of suspects to a
specific, smaller group of individuals. Biological evidence may make the
group of suspects very small,

 

[Nova]

I respectfully disagree. He would have received it soon enough, and I actually think O'Mara was probably surprised when Gilbreath said that the FBI has had someone examine it and that still gave Gilbreath no insight as to the voice.

So what are you arguing? I thought the argument was that O'Mara knew the answer he would get, that he was following the "rule".

Now suddenly I'm being told he was surprised by Gilbreath's testimony.

 

[impatientredhead]

I don't think there is an inference that TM was shot dead by GZ. He admitted it. Admitted it was his gun, his shell casing. I don't think GZ was giving "hints" I believe he openly admitted he shot TM. No one has to draw a conclusion about that part. jmo

You keep changing your point of reference. First you said fingerprints were circumstantial. They are. Then you said shell casing weren't. They are. Now you have leap frogged to GZs words, which aren't circumstantial they are direct evidence.

 

[Nova]

If that were the case, the answer is "I don't know"

How do you answer "I don't know" to the question "Did such-and-such give you any insight?" It either gave you insight or it didn't and surely YOU would know.

 

[Concerned Papa]

What evidence does Special Prosecutor Angela Corey have that prompted her to charge George Zimmerman with murdering Trayvon Martin?

GILBREATH:

• We have Mr. Zimmerman's statements,

• we have the shell casings

• and we had Mr. Martin's body.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html

"It'll be like little bits and pieces that will have to be strung together," said Adam Pollack, an Orlando criminal-trial attorney. "Almost a bunch of little dots. Initially, the little dots don't make much sense, but if you step back, you see a bigger picture."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...man-evidence-trayvon-20120428,0,5841658.story

I don't think they'll need anything else.

 

[jjenny]

How do you answer "I don't know" to the question "Did such-and-such give you any insight?" It either gave you insight or it didn't and surely YOU would know.

Common sense tells me that if DA Corey had any tests showing Trayvon was the one screaming that would have ended up in affidavit. Saying his mother identified his voice suggests to me that tests are inconclusive and no good. If Corey wants to present mother's testimony at trial that its Trayvon screaming, all defense has to do is put Zimmerman's relatives on the stand who will say its Zimmerman screaming.