17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #36

[LambChop]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So that would be recorded because all those conversations were recorded, right?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you're sure you said that?

ZIMMERMAN: I'm fairly certain.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so which officer did you tell that to? You made five statements I believe, total.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir, I'm sorry, all the names run together. ******
Further down SA asks the question about the inconsistencies in those five statements.

Zimmerman admitted under oath to making five statements at the bond hearing. So maybe he meant only 2 of the 5 statements were inconsistent????? jmo

 

[Donjeta]

But I believe the message SA was trying to get through to GZ was that those statements were recorded. Those very statements, IMO, would have been to determine what charges the DA should have brought against GZ. The charges now we know are 2nd degree murder. So what inconsistencies led them to believe that. Once those statements are released through discovery we will be able to check them out ourselves. Sometimes when people are inconsistent in the statements because those statements are not based entirely on the truth people are not aware of the inconsistencies and it would be only natural to answer absolutely not. jmo

A bit like what happens here, in fact.

[Bernardo De La Rionda]
I’m sorry, sir, you’re not really addressing that to the court. You’re doing it here for the victim’s family, is that correct?

[George Zimmerman]
They are here in the court, yes.

I understand. But I thought you were going to address your honor, ( ) Judge Lester, not — so that’s really addressed to the family and where the media happens to be, correct, Mr. Zimmerman?

[George Zimmerman]
No, to the mother and the father.

Ok. And tell me, after you committed this crime and you spoke to the police, did you ever make that statement to the police, sir? That you were sorry for what you’ve done or their loss?

[George Zimmerman]
No sir.

You never stated that, did you?

[George Zimmerman]
I don’t remember what I said. I believe I did say that.

You told that to the police?

[George Zimmerman]
In one of the statements, I said that I felt sorry for the family.

You did.

[George Zimmerman]
Yes, sir.

So that would be recorded because all those conversations were recorded, right?

[George Zimmerman]
Yes, sir.

And you’re sure you said that?

[George Zimmerman] Source: LYBIO.net
I’m fairly certain.

And so which officer did you tell that to? You made five statements I believe, total.

[George Zimmerman]
Yes, sir, I’m sorry, all the names run together.

And do you remember if it was a male or a female?

[George Zimmerman]
There were both males and females.

At the time you made that statement that you were sorry?

[George Zimmerman]
Yes, sir.

And let me make sure the record’s clear, you stated exactly what to those detectives?

[George Zimmerman]
I don’t remember exactly what — verbatim.

But you’re saying you expressed concern for the loss of Mr. Martin, or that you had shot Mr. Martin, that you actually felt sorry for him.

[George Zimmerman]
I felt sorry that they lost their child, yes.

And so you told detectives that you wanted them to convey that to the parents?

[George Zimmerman]
I don’t know if they were detectives or not.

Officers, I apologize.

[George Zimmerman]
I didn’t know if they were going to convey it or not. I just made the statement.

Ok. And then you said that you called them or you left a message for them to tell them that?

[George Zimmerman]
No, sir.

Why did you wait 50 something days to tell them — that is, the parents?

[George Zimmerman] Source: LYBIO.net
I don’t understand the question, sir.

Why did you wait so long to tell Mr. Martin and the victim’s mother, the father and mother, why did you wait so long to tell them?

[George Zimmerman]
I was told not to communicate with them.

Ok. So even through your attorney, you didn’t ask to do it right away? Your former attorneys or anything.

[George Zimmerman]
I did ask them to express that to them. And they said that they were going to.

He didn't make a statement that he's sorry when he was questioned. No, wait, he doesn't remember. No, wait, he believes he did. Yes, in fact he is fairly certain that he did. He even remembers there were both males and females in the room. He doesn't remember what he said. Oh, he remembers he felt sorry. He didn't know if the officers were going to communicate it to the family, he just made the statement. No, wait, he actually asked them to communicate it to the family and they agreed.

 

[LambChop]

And how does one come to the conclusion that by GZ stating that he has given 5 statement to then turn that into he has given 5 different statements?

For the life of me I will listen very intently to this explanation.

LOL, Elley.....even his testimony about how many statements he gave is inconsistent in the bond hearing. Seriously does he have comprehension problems??? jmo

 

[cityslick]

Who knows, City? I certainly don't. I'm trying to take the most simplistic approach possible in my view by considering, literally, only what these people are saying.

My head might explode if I started trying to figure out what these people are TRYING to say, LOL.

The best example I can give you deals with the location of the body. IIRC, the Fox vid says John told them the fight happened directly under that bathroom window. The SPD report says the body was between 1231 Twin Trees and 2831 Retreat View. The SFD says it was in the back yard of 2831 Retreat view. Zimmerman's own lawyer said the evidence suggested it was 70yards from TM's own back door.

And NONE of these locations are "where the sidewalks intersect".

Plenty of people on this site have already attempted to explain how the SPD report and SFD dispatch recording don't mean what they say, so I guess, maybe, something will come along one of these days to clear all of it up.

Ok, I wasn't challenging your theory (you do a great job btw, even if I don't necessarily agree with the findings) but more thinking questions out loud as to how much sense certain things are based on the witness (which is very limited at this point).

I agree that simply going off the police report to determine where the body was may be using a little faulty logic, considering there still seems to be a lot of information missing about the crime scene that night that the report does not answer (the tarp for example). We will definitely know more as stuff will eventually be disclosed.

 

[Elley Mae]

Zimmerman admitted under oath to making five statements at the bond hearing. So maybe he meant only 2 of the 5 statements were inconsistent????? jmo

I do not see that at all jmo No where does that say to me that if the amount of statements that GZ says he made are different then some where in there some of them are lies. jmo

 

[LambChop]

A bit like what happens here, in fact.




He didn't make a statement that he's sorry when he was questioned. No, wait, he doesn't remember. No, wait, he believes he did. Yes, in fact he is fairly certain that he did. He even remembers there were both males and females in the room. He doesn't remember what he said. Oh, he remembers he felt sorry. He didn't know if the officers were going to communicate it to the family, he just made the statement. No, wait, he actually asked them to communicate it to the family and they agreed.

And this proves the old saying that the truth is soooooooo much easier to remember. lol

 

[Karmady]

And how does one come to the conclusion that by GZ stating that he has given 5 statement to then turn that into he has given 5 different statements?

For the life of me I will listen very intently to this explanation.

Also, iirc, although he answers a question with the number 5 in it with "yes, sir," that is immediately followed by his recollection that he gave 3 statements and his denial that they were inconsistent. That section of the transcript was posted in the last thread.

eta: here it is. I was wrong about "followed," the yes, sir "followed"

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. Would it be fair to say you were questioned about four or five times?

ZIMMERMAN: I remember giving three statements, yes sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And isn't it true that in some of those statement when you were confronted about your inconsistencies, you started "I don't remember"?

O'MARA: Outside the scope of direct examination. I will object your honor.

JUDGE LESTER: We'll give you a little bit of leeway. Not a whole lot but a little bit here, ok.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn't it true that when you were questioned about the contradictions in your statements that the police didn't believe it, that you would say "I don't remember"?

JUDGE LESTER: I'm going to grant his motion at this time.

O'MARA: Thank you, your honor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you agree you changed your story as it went along?

ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely not.


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html

 

[Elley Mae]

Ok, I wasn't challenging your theory (you do a great job btw, even if I don't necessarily agree with the findings) but more thinking questions out loud as to how much sense certain things are based on the witness (which is very limited at this point).

I agree that simply going off the police report to determine where the body was may be using a little faulty logic, considering there still seems to be a lot of information missing about the crime scene that night that the report does not answer (the tarp for example). We will definitely know more as stuff will eventually be disclosed.

there was an article I read about a lady walking a dog, reporter talked to her she said Tm was laying in the shade of a maple tree. will go look

 

[gxm]

In my experience, if a student is consistently tardy eventually they will get a suspension. I used to miss my bus so that I'd have to walk to school and after a while the school catches on. Excessive tardiness is treated like truancy, at least when I was a kid and when my own children were in school.

 

[LambChop]

I do not see that at all jmo No where does that say to me that if the amount of statements that GZ says he made are different then some where in there some of them are lies. jmo

I'm not talking about the inconsistencies which the investigator rightfully indentified as inconsistencies within the statements he gave. I'm talking about the fact that he just testified and agreed that he gave 5 statements and then later claimed he only gave 3 statements. That, in itself, is an inconsistent statement. On the stand he have proven he has some credibility problems. jmo

 

[Donjeta]

It would have been nice though if they would have told Mr Martin or Ms Green about the reenactment. Am sure , he would have been very interested. But as far as I know, Mr Martin nor Ms Green was there.
Also, do not think it was a coincidence that RZ Sr was there since he apparently was also present at the interview of GZ on same day..

BTW, that quoted seven page article has a lot of info. It refreshed my memory again.

I think it would be a bad idea to have the victim's family present if they weren't present when it all happened. It would be painful for the family and it's not the proper place and time for the family and the alleged perp to get together for the first time imo. There could be a confrontation that distracts from the task at hand and even if there isn't people might find themselves distracted by the obvious pain of the family or try to shield them from the unhappy truth which would undermine the purpose of the re-enactment.

 

[Aedrys]

A bit like what happens here, in fact.




He didn't make a statement that he's sorry when he was questioned. No, wait, he doesn't remember. No, wait, he believes he did. Yes, in fact he is fairly certain that he did. He even remembers there were both males and females in the room. He doesn't remember what he said. Oh, he remembers he felt sorry. He didn't know if the officers were going to communicate it to the family, he just made the statement. No, wait, he actually asked them to communicate it to the family and they agreed.

Holy Moly, that is the worst case of not giving a straight answer I have ever seen. He is going to be a nightmare on the stand if he answers like this. Wow. It's not that hard to give a straight answer, but apparently GZ has no clue how do that.

 

[JBean]

Well so much for going around about it LOL.
I think at this point it is pretty safe to say we do not know if he gave 5 inconsistent and/or contradictory statements.
So if you do make any reference to it please do not state it as fact but rather your interpretation of the information we have.
there is a difference and we need to be more sensitive to that all the way around this case.

 

[Donjeta]

Also, iirc, although he answers a question with the number 5 in it with "yes, sir," that is immediately followed by his recollection that he gave 3 statements and his denial that they were inconsistent. That section of the transcript was posted in the last thread.

eta: here it is. I was wrong about "followed," the yes, sir "followed"

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. Would it be fair to say you were questioned about four or five times?

ZIMMERMAN: I remember giving three statements, yes sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And isn't it true that in some of those statement when you were confronted about your inconsistencies, you started "I don't remember"?

O'MARA: Outside the scope of direct examination. I will object your honor.

JUDGE LESTER: We'll give you a little bit of leeway. Not a whole lot but a little bit here, ok.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn't it true that when you were questioned about the contradictions in your statements that the police didn't believe it, that you would say "I don't remember"?

JUDGE LESTER: I'm going to grant his motion at this time.

O'MARA: Thank you, your honor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you agree you changed your story as it went along?

ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely not.


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html

I think he might possibly deny that he was inconsistent in the snippet I posted above but it doesn't mean he wasn't... Imo.

 

[LambChop]

Well so much for going around about it LOL.
I think at this point it is pretty safe to say we do not know if he gave 5 inconsistent and/or contradictory statements.
So if you do make any reference to it please do not state it as fact but rather your interpretation of the information we have.
there is a difference and we need to be more sensitive to that all the way around this case.

Yep. That's about it. He gave a number of statements and the State maintains there were some inconsistencies in his statements. How many, we do not know for sure. The only one the investigator mentioned was TM circling the truck three times which is inconsistent with GZ's story of being attacked at the cut through. jmo

 

[Sherbie]

A bit like what happens here, in fact.




He didn't make a statement that he's sorry when he was questioned. No, wait, he doesn't remember. No, wait, he believes he did. Yes, in fact he is fairly certain that he did. He even remembers there were both males and females in the room. He doesn't remember what he said. Oh, he remembers he felt sorry. He didn't know if the officers were going to communicate it to the family, he just made the statement. No, wait, he actually asked them to communicate it to the family and they agreed.

Well...if his statements to LE are anything like that, he's in worse trouble than I imagined.

That quoted text reminded me of something that I've been curious about ever since the hearing. The prosecutor prefaced a question with, "After you committed this crime..." (Typical lawyer tactic to throw in something you want the other party to impliedly cede without their noticing it because they're focused on answering the actual question.)

GZ answered the question without contesting that point and O'Mara didn't object to that characterization. Maybe since there was no jury to hear it, it wasn't a big deal, but it struck me as odd that O'Mara didn't challenge that.

 

[gxm]

I'm not talking about the inconsistencies which the investigator rightfully indentified as inconsistencies within the statements he gave. I'm talking about the fact that he just testified and agreed that he gave 5 statements and then later claimed he only gave 3 statements. That, in itself, is an inconsistent statement. On the stand he have proven he has some credibility problems. jmo

I think you're referring to this section of the transcript:

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you're sure you said that?

ZIMMERMAN: I'm fairly certain.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so which officer did you tell that to? You made five statements I believe, total.

ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir, I'm sorry, all the names run together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And do you remember if it was a male or a female?

ZIMMERMAN: There were both males and females.


The way I read it, the amount of statements was not framed as a question at this point. GZ is responding to the question"which officer?" first with "yes" (IMO, as in "I understand your question"), then with "sir" and then "I'm sorry all their names run together." He's not responding to the non-question about the number of statements. When he is actually questioned about the number of statements later, he says that he remembers giving three statements.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[gxm]

Because I don't think GZ planned to shoot, much less kill, anyone that night, IMO, it seems likely he was in shock. IMO, it's not a stretch to understand that it would be difficult for him to remember what he said to who and when he said it. It sounds like he was dealing with a lot of officers/detectives. Is that normal? I'd think that would get quite confusing so maybe LE does it on purpose.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[fran]

Personal request.
I keep reading there were 5 differing statements given by Zimmerman. The implication being that they were contradictory.
Can someone please spell those statements out for me,clarify if they were different as in contradictory or different as in 5 different times.

Please do not respond to this post unless you can answer that question completely. What I mean is not looking for a bunch of round about on this. Just want to clarify once and for all even if it is to find out that we don't know.

trying to separate fact from fiction in general.
TIA

JBean:

I know you've already gotten several responses to this about this being brought out in the bond hearing.

Yes, the witness, State Pros Investigator, said there were inconsistencies or different stories. Can't recall exact words. But then when GZ took the stand, after his apology to the parents, he was questioned by the pros and then the def attorney. Can't recall which but I believe it was the def attorney asked him if he'd changed his story to LE that night and next day. He said 'No.'

As the pros hasn't released any evidence, about the only thing we have to go on regarding this is one side said it's different, other side said it isn't, and we haven't seen any evidence.

So I guess it would be 'allegedly' different stories.

JMHO
fran

 

[Elley Mae]

I think you're referring to this section of the transcript:

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you're sure you said that?

ZIMMERMAN: I'm fairly certain.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so which officer did you tell that to? You made five statements I believe, total.

ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir, I'm sorry, all the names run together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And do you remember if it was a male or a female?

ZIMMERMAN: There were both males and females.


The way I read it, the amount of statements was not framed as a question at this point. GZ is responding to the question"which officer?" first with "yes" (IMO, as in "I understand your question"), then with "sir" and then "I'm sorry all their names run together." He's not responding to the non-question about the number of statements. When he is actually questioned about the number of statements later, he says that he remembers giving three statements.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

Thanks for this, I see it as the person asking the question wants to know what (interviewer) of the 3-5 statement that you gave did you say that to.