2 Students Sue High School Over Confederate Flag Ban

[txsvicki]

If Ft. Worth is anything like the schools here in Lubbock, then they also say a pledge to the Texas Flag. Texas has a high percentage of Hispanics and I would also think that some of them could be offended since Texas was taken away from Mexico, but I've not heard any complaints and the school has not stopped the practice that I know of. In fact, a local junior high only recently changed the name of their football team from Redskins to Knights. Redskins always offended me.

 

[SadieMae]

When I was in high school, this was in 2000, a bunch of rednecks got together on Flag day and flew their rebel flags from the back of their big trucks. It was very embarrassing for those of us who weren't racist, because we knew the reason behind it...they tried to say it was for Flag day, but the students knew otherwise. They were suspended for 3 days for "inciting a riot". This was kinda in the south, Chesapeake, VA. Hickory High School. After school that day a lot of good 'ol white boys got their asses kicked.

Ya know, this is what I don't get. Why is the rebel flag so associated with slavery. The war was not all about freeing the slaves...it was about the economics of slavery. Free/cheap labor in a capitalist society. The south had free labor, then northerners said it's not right. If all slaves were brought from Ireland, I think the war still would have happened. JMO.

 

[Peter Hamilton]

I think the confederate flag is not only a symbol of the "old" south, but also a symbol of our country's division, not just on the slavery issue. The recent adoption by white racist extremist has added the most shame to that flag. Prior to that adoption, the flag really had no impact on me other than being a historical flag. I'm not jewish but still cringe at what the swatiska represents. Hitler lost and you don't see his flag flying over govt buildings in Germany for old times sake. If the confederate flag is allowed, who will then say the swatiska should be allowed on clothing and accessories?

--Good Post SadieMae--well said

 

[BarnGoddess]

I hate to see an historical flag used for the wrong reasons. It wasn't even an official flag, if I recall. It was a battle flag.

Here's an interesting site for a little history.

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/Confederate_Flag.htm

Here's another site with all the state's flags. Several states have bars and stars in their flags. See Florida, Mississippi, Alabama and even Arkansas. Look at Georgia in reference to the above. It's the closest to the original Confederate flag, the Stars and Bars.

http://www.netstate.com/state_flags.htm

Interesting. It is our history and we need to understand it in the proper context. I don't necessarily agree with its display at schools and hate the way the KKK and others have tried to claim it as their own. I am from the South and grew up with seeing it displayed on occassion. It didn't evoke then in my circle of friends what it does today.

At Miami Edison High School, during pep rallies, the cheerleaders would lead a rousing version of the following song using mainly just the chorus:

Are You From Dixie?:

http://www.bluegrasslyrics.com/bluegrass_song.cfm-recordID=sp081.htm

Back then, even Miami was considered Southern, Not Southern New York. LOL

 

[txsvicki]

Someone on websleuths was posting awhile back that the Civil War really wasn't about slavery and gave info that they learned in school, but I don't remember what was said.

 

[Floh]

I think the confederate flag is not only a symbol of the "old" south, but also a symbol of our country's division, not just on the slavery issue. The recent adoption by white racist extremist has added the most shame to that flag. Prior to that adoption, the flag really had no impact on me other than being a historical flag. I'm not jewish but still cringe at what the swatiska represents. Hitler lost and you don't see his flag flying over govt buildings in Germany for old times sake. If the confederate flag is allowed, who will then say the swatiska should be allowed on clothing and accessories?

The Swastika

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

 

[Floh]

Someone on websleuths was posting awhile back that the Civil War really wasn't about slavery and gave info that they learned in school, but I don't remember what was said.

I found this post made by SadieMae very interesting in regard to your post above.

Ya know, this is what I don't get. Why is the rebel flag so associated with slavery. The war was not all about freeing the slaves...it was about the economics of slavery. Free/cheap labor in a capitalist society. The south had free labor, then northerners said it's not right. If all slaves were brought from Ireland, I think the war still would have happened. JMO.

i add it to 'Things i never knew before reading Websleuths'.

 

[Pandora]

Every year many of my "redneck" students wore rebel flags on their clothing. Every year I used it as a "teachable moment," requiring a paragraph first on "What does the rebel flag mean to you?" Occasionally, one or two of my black students would wear a rebel flag t-shirt upon discovering that an ancestor fought in the "War of Northern Agression" when discussing it at the dinner table the night after class. (I was in northeast GA--can you tell?) While there were those who were racist, they were required to defend their wearing of the t-shirt. (By me, not by administration.) One dimwit brought in KKK brochures in his defense; I turned them in to administration and he was suspended and prohibited from wearing the flag.

When I first started teaching there, I was under the impression that it was a racist symbol. I have now come to the understanding that the minority of my students are racist, most are just as proud of their heritage as I am of mine. During the time I taught there, I got into genealogy and learned that my family was not as BLUE as I thought! There was a southern side to my father's family who fought for the Confederacy; one even died in a northern prison camp! Interestingly, they did have plantations AND had intermarried w/ Cherokees and blacks who could "pass" for white. They were defending their way of life.

 

[Malapoo]

I grew up in the 60's in the South, and I have always been offended by the rebel flag. I do understand that to many it's more of a southern history/heritage thing, but to far too many it is a symbol of racism and hatred. I'd like to think that even if I liked the flag, I would keep display of it in my home and not out in public out of respect for those who see it in a negative light. I know someone who is a Klannish/Nazi and has a house full of swastikas and Nazi memorabilia, but you'd never know it in public. Not a friend, someone I know through work.

I understand the whole freedom of speech and expression, but I think part of where our society in general has become lost/depraved is that we focus only on OUR freedoms as individuals and have forgotten respect for others. It's a double edged sword - you can't always have freedom as an individual without infringing on others.

 

[southcitymom]

Ya know, this is what I don't get. Why is the rebel flag so associated with slavery. The war was not all about freeing the slaves...it was about the economics of slavery. Free/cheap labor in a capitalist society. The south had free labor, then northerners said it's not right. If all slaves were brought from Ireland, I think the war still would have happened. JMO.

This is a great post and very true. Still I think the overwhelming moral wrongness of slavery is what seems to chime through when people think about the Old South and the Civil War. Eventually, this turned into a racist issue simply because slaves and non-slaves were of different ones.

And racist people have made the battle flag of the South theirs. More's the pity but it's a reality we can't deny. As I said earlier, the Confederate flag has a lot of positive meaning to me personally, but I don't wear it or diplay it because many are offended by it. It's just not that important to me that I would risk causing others pain or giving others one more reason to believe that racism is alive and well.

 

[reb]

regardless of the history, the race issue, and all that... i think the reason that something like this is seeing a resurgance is that is could be a backlash against the current street / gangsta culture that seems to have taken over our society today. it is shoved in our faces everywhere you look... music, billboards, TV, videos, popular culture... every other commercial seems to make fun of dorky white people trying to act black. look on myspace, and about 80% of the white kids on there are all thugged out, with gang symbols and all that. listen to yougn people talk today, same thing.
it seems like 'european american' people have lost their sense of history and culture, so nw they feel they have to co-opt someone else's culture. the young people no longer have any roots, as the past generations have usually made an effort to assimilate and leave the old world behind. so now, you have a kind of rootless, homogenous culture, while everyone else gets to hold onto, and 'celebrate' theirs. we are taught to be ashamed of ours, and it seems all we have is images of negative stuff drilled into our heads.. how white people killed the indians, how white people enslaved blacks, then you have hitler killing 9 million people (about 6 million of which were jews-- the rest were romani (& other) gypsies, russian, polish, french, scandinavian & italian non-jews (prostestants, catholics, & others..), czechs, dutch, bosnians & serbs, other eastern european, greek orthodox, africans, asians, the elderly, the sick, the disabled, artists, political activists & prisoners, communists, freemasons, homosexuals,, intellectuals, nazi resistors, trade unionists, jehovah's witnesses, & anyone else who got in the way. this is just a reminder-- that it was much more than jews!)
so anyway... you turn on the history channel, and there's hitler bashing the podium and screaming while everyone's doing the 'zeig hiel'. so of COURSE we must remember what happened... and never forget. but is that all there is? i feel like other than that disaster, the heritage of EA's is largely forgotten. we are taught to have shame while everyone else gets to celebrate & be proud. it's constantly drilled into our heads that we have nothing to be proud of-- we are bad, bad, bad, and evil. if we do try to be proud of our culture everyone calls us a neo-nazi or a racist.
so is it any wonder that these white kids are trying to latch onto to the only sense of history and cultural identity they know, and trying to stand up for their sense of heritage, as well as free speech...?

 

[reb]

and oh yeah-- shame about the swastika. it was a very ancient and really cool old symbol, used since neolithic times, that eventually showed up in just about every culture in some form. it had various meanings that were very universal and primal. now people see it and they only think one thing, because of one very famous psychopath.

 

[csds703]

and oh yeah-- shame about the swastika. it was a very ancient and really cool old symbol, used since neolithic times, that eventually showed up in just about every culture in some form. it had various meanings that were very universal and primal. now people see it and they only think one thing, because of one very famous psychopath.

Well when this psychopath came to power, where were all the normal good people? They let him use this "really cool old symbol" for pure evil.
You are right that millions of people died. This is why it is important to speak up again and again when we see tyranny of any kind.
When the Klan and other hate groups were adopting the confederate flag as their symbol, where were the good people? Human nature is to look the other way until it personally effects our lives.

 

[Nova]

Back then, even Miami was considered Southern, Not Southern New York. LOL

Thank you, BG. I get so tired of explaining that to people and then listening while somebody from Chicago tells me I'm wrong. Sheesh!

 

[reb]

where were all the normal good people?? well, if they could afford to leave, they did... or if they couldn't leave, they usually died! many who chose to stay thought surely, the madness will end. this can't go on forever, right? someone's gonna get rid of this madman! .. and before they knew it they were involved in a full-scale world war. often they were intimidated by the nazis into silence,, in fear they and their families would be killed (as they often were). so a lot of people were compliant out of fear. also the fear of being turned in as a traitor was a strong motivator to keep silent. even the POPE himself was silent about the extermination of the jews & other victims!
regarding the concentration camps, most citizens and other nations were not aware (or, fully aware) of the extent of what was going on until it was all over. or they heard rumors, but they didn't believe it was true. or they were well aware but in denial. and what could individuals they do anyway? however there were many resisters... such as the white rose society.. a group of young german university students, in their early 20's, who stood up to the nazis and were executed. who knows how many others were secretly part of this group or similar pockets of resistence-- YES,, GERMANS.... who were shot or killed in the camps. but the only ones you see in the old film reels are hitler's fervent supporters-- so people who don't study history just assume that 'all germans were evil & psycho'.
also some nations refused to comply in handing over their jews,, then there was a oskar schindler, the most well-known of the germans who tried to help save jewish lives, and the people of denmark rose up against the nazis and risked their own lives to send their jews to safety. even pres. roosevelt finally formed the war refugee board which helped european nations do the same.

but what i am saying is,, we get bombarded with this kind of imgaery-- and some tend to write off their entire heritage or culture because of it.
and my thought was, that perhaps young people who cling to the confederate flag are trying to grasp onto some tangible element of their history, which is not encouraged to be 'celebrated' (their history, that is). perhaps, this is a kind of backlash. and, as i said, they are probably sick up to their eyeballs of the and rapper culture. and they want to balance things out,, and this is all they know.

 

[MeoW333]

I thought the Confederate flag was something they put on an orange Dodge Charger.

Dukes of Hazzard!!
I love that Dodge Charger, although i wouldn't want it in orange, i'd get it in a shade of blue..

 

[sweetheart29]

Every year many of my "redneck" students wore rebel flags on their clothing. Every year I used it as a "teachable moment," requiring a paragraph first on "What does the rebel flag mean to you?" class.

(I was in northeast GA--can you tell?) While there were those who were racist, they were required to defend their wearing of the t-shirt. (By me, not by administration.)

I wounder if any body ever required a paragraph from you on " What it means to call a person a redneck?" (which was what indians were called) or maybe you ment that the indians were wearing rebel flags clothing to school. I dont see how a person can teach against being racist when that person is being racist to another group of people. Maybe its just racist if is angainst black.

 

[Nova]

This is a great post and very true. Still I think the overwhelming moral wrongness of slavery is what seems to chime through when people think about the Old South and the Civil War. Eventually, this turned into a racist issue simply because slaves and non-slaves were of different ones.

And racist people have made the battle flag of the South theirs. More's the pity but it's a reality we can't deny. As I said earlier, the Confederate flag has a lot of positive meaning to me personally, but I don't wear it or diplay it because many are offended by it. It's just not that important to me that I would risk causing others pain or giving others one more reason to believe that racism is alive and well.

Exactly right (as usual), SCM. For decades I kept a Confederate flag in my room. To me, it represented the South of Faulkner, O'Connor, Williams and Warren, and equally Angelou and Ellison. But I kept that symbol in my home because I knew it offended others.

By a few years ago, however and alas, the flag had become so associated with segregationists and neo-fascists, I had to throw it away. Yes, it's sad that some symbols come to be "owned" by evil people. But as you so wisely put it, "it's a reality we can't deny."

 

[Nova]

Every year many of my "redneck" students wore rebel flags on their clothing. Every year I used it as a "teachable moment," requiring a paragraph first on "What does the rebel flag mean to you?" class.

(I was in northeast GA--can you tell?) While there were those who were racist, they were required to defend their wearing of the t-shirt. (By me, not by administration.)

I wounder if any body ever required a paragraph from you on " What it means to call a person a redneck?" (which was what indians were called) or maybe you ment that the indians were wearing rebel flags clothing to school. I dont see how a person can teach against being racist when that person is being racist to another group of people. Maybe its just racist if is angainst black.

To my knowledge, Indians were called "redskins." "Rednecks" was a term applied at some point to Southern farmers, whose necks were said to be red from all the time they spent stooped over, laboring in the sun.

It's more a classist slur than a racist one, but you're right. It's not a very nice word.

I believe Pandora put the word in quotes precisely to acknowledge its problematic nature, while at the same time invoking the word as handy shorthand for a certain set of beliefs (since in the modern usage, "redneck" isn't strictly applied to agricultural workers).

 

[Levi]

Having lived in the south all my life. Kentucky, Tennessee and Oklahoma. Most of the people I seen wearing the confederate flag in school -- were people who moved to the south from up north and they wanted to fit it.