2 unrepentant about selling Katrina gift

[JBean]

Hatred is in the category of aversion and anger. We are talking degrees of the same basic emotion.

Maybe I have you confused with someone who has a Zen priest for a sister.

I disagree. Anger may or may not have anything to do with hatred.
My sister is a Zen teacher yes, but why would I ask her about this issue?

 

[Karole28]

Hatred is in the category of aversion and anger. We are talking degrees of the same basic emotion.

No we're not. I can be angry at someone (a relative) and not hate them.

Why would you believe they're related??
I hate sin, it doesn't anger me.

I hate brussel sprouts. But, I'm not mad at them.

I get angry with a relative for not reminding me of another relative's birthday. I don't hate them.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Some posts you speak of anger and some you speak of hatred which is it we are discussing?
letting go of the hot poker of anger is an "of course" issue and I addressed that eaelier. What one does with anger is what reveals one's character, IMO.

Hatred may be defined as anger that has hardened. I would say that some posters are expressing a hardened stance toward the couple who may have taken advantage of the generosity of the Church.

Bitterness may be defined as anger that is retained.

This is my clumsy way I would offer these Church folks and posters to help not have anger go this way.

 

[windovervocalcords]

I disagree. Anger may or may not have anything to do with hatred.
My sister is a Zen teacher yes, but why would I ask her about this issue?

Because you say my position is absurd. I think she would be able to explain it.

 

[Buzz Mills]

When we take off our blinders and take a better look at this situation, these two individuals managed a large con on a church, when so many others were lying, cheating, and stealing the government blind. I would like to read a tell all book about all the money that was pilfered during Katrina. The peanut butter sandwich contractor got $14 for each peanut butter sandwich he made. It doesn't take very many peanut butter sandwiches to equal what this con couple got from the church. Our friends at Halliburton had a large part of the contract to clean up after Katrina. And they did clean up, so I guess they lived up to the contract.

 

[JBean]

Hatred may be defined as anger that has hardened. I would say that some posters are expressing a hardened stance toward the couple who may have taken advantage of the generosity of the Church.

Bitterness may be defined as anger that is retained.

This is my clumsy way I would offer these Church folks and posters to help not have anger go this way.

Why shouldn't they be angry? If they weren't, wouldn't that be repressing anger which you said you were not advocating?
If these people presented themselves as something they are not in order to gain from the generosity of others, that makes me angry. Doesn't mean I hate them, doesn't mean I am hardened, doesn't mean anything else except I am angry at their behavior. That's ok and natural.
But, like other emotions, anger passes,and does not impact my behavior in any way shape or form. but just like laughing at something funny, it is normal to feel anger when another is wronged.

 

[windovervocalcords]

When we take off our blinders and take a better look at this situation, these two individuals managed a large con on a church, when so many others were lying, cheating, and stealing the government blind. I would like to read a tell all book about all the money that was pilfered during Katrina. The peanut butter sandwich contractor got $14 for each peanut butter sandwich he made. It doesn't take very many peanut butter sandwiches to equal what this con couple got from the church. Our friends at Halliburton had a large part of the contract to clean up after Katrina. And they did clean up, so I guess they lived up to the contract.

What a great perspective Buzz. Talk about taking the big picture in!

 

[windovervocalcords]

Why shouldn't they be angry? Wouldn't that be repressing anger which you said you were not advocating?
If these people presented themselves as something they are not in order to gain from the generosity of others, that makes me angry. Doesn't mean I hate them, doesn't mean I am hardened, doesn't mean anything else except I am angry at their behavior. That's ok and natural.
But, like other emotions, anger passes,and does not impact my behavior in any way shape or form. but just like laughing at something funny, it is normal to feel anger when another is wronged.

Yes. That's a positive way of working with anger. That way it doesn't go to bitterness or hatred.

I just do what I do--always an opportunity to look at the situation another way. Like Buzz seeing the big picture.

Katrina has alot of "karma" with it and great opportunity.

 

[JBean]

When we take off our blinders and take a better look at this situation, these two individuals managed a large con on a church, when so many others were lying, cheating, and stealing the government blind. I would like to read a tell all book about all the money that was pilfered during Katrina. The peanut butter sandwich contractor got $14 for each peanut butter sandwich he made. It doesn't take very many peanut butter sandwiches to equal what this con couple got from the church. Our friends at Halliburton had a large part of the contract to clean up after Katrina. And they did clean up, so I guess they lived up to the contract.

I am so glad you are back Buzz..i have really missed you.

 

[JBean]

Because you say my position is absurd. I think she would be able to explain it.

aren't you explaining it now? why would my sister need to explain your position? I am not following, sorry WOVC.

 

[Karole28]

Wow. So, we go from talking about a couple who bilked money out of a church and we end up with halliburton and the "big picture".

Cause we can't look case by case.

 

[Nova]

Wow. So, we go from talking about a couple who bilked money out of a church and we end up with halliburton and the "big picture".

Cause we can't look case by case.

What did you want people to say? Did you expect people to post in favor of bilking churches?

 

[Karole28]

What did you want people to say? Did you expect people to post in favor of bilking churches?

Nova, read further into the thread.

 

[Nova]

Why are moral issues always about someone else's poor morality?

Post of the Year! Post of the Decade! Ought to be the WS universal sig line!

 

[Nova]

Nova, read further into the thread.

Sorry. I'm trying...

 

[Karole28]

Sorry. I'm trying...

Well, it's like trying to measure a slinky with a ruler. For sure.

 

[Nova]

It isn't about showing gratitude, it's the pretenses under which the house was procured. Their actions would make ME suspicious of their motives, as well. It would most people. They were less than honest with the church about their needs/wants. But, some people will never have sympathy for a church, either. Sad but true.

Oh, come ON! That's not the issue here. The self-pity among many members of the most economically and politically powerful religion on the planet is truly galling.

But if you'll check your Bible, I believe you'll find Jesus saying things very similar to what wind has said here. And I doubt you'll find a scripture where Jesus says, "Before you give a gift, make sure the gift will enable you to control the recipient's lives for evermore."

 

[Nova]

Well, it's like trying to measure a slinky with a ruler. For sure.

For what it's worth, fraud is one thing. If the recipients misrepresented their situation, then I believe the Church can sue them for fraud.

But if the only issue is that the Church wanted to help a couple of Katrina victims, then mission accomplished. If the Church's primary (or even major) aim was to add this particular couple to the Church's community, then maybe the screening process should have been stricter.

Maybe it would help to answer this question: how LONG do people feel the recipients were obligated to live in the gift house?

What if I give a street person a dollar? What does s/he owe me? Is the obligation automatically implied or do I have to spell it out before s/he accepts my dollar? Does s/he have to be my friend?

 

[Karole28]

For what it's worth, fraud is one thing. If the recipients misrepresented their situation, then I believe the Church can sue them for fraud.

I'm not sure any laws were broken in this case. I'd need to study this closer.

But if the only issue is that the Church wanted to help a couple of Katrina victims, then mission accomplished. If the Church's primary (or even major) aim was to add this particular couple to the Church's community, then maybe the screening process should have been stricter.

No one is arguing that their (church) mission was not accomplished. And, obviously their screening process will tighten up. And, that's a shame.

Maybe it would help to answer this question: how LONG do people feel the recipients were obligated to live in the gift house?

What if I give a street person a dollar? What does s/he owe me? Is the obligation automatically implied or do I have to spell it out before s/he accepts my dollar? Does s/he have to be my friend?

(S)He doesn't owe you anything. And, these people (in my opinion) don't owe this church a thing (legally). Morally, they should've passed this house along to one of the other 49(!) families who applied for it, if they didn't want to live there.

 

[Dark Knight]

Oh, come ON! That's not the issue here. The self-pity among many members of the most economically and politically powerful religion on the planet is truly galling.

But if you'll check your Bible, I believe you'll find Jesus saying things very similar to what wind has said here. And I doubt you'll find a scripture where Jesus says, "Before you give a gift, make sure the gift will enable you to control the recipient's lives for evermore."

And at the end of it all, Nova turns it into another attack on Christianity and our "self-pity" and "whininess." Your insults against Christians is getting old, and is irrelevant most of the time, such as on this topic, which is about fraud against what happens to be a church. You have such hatred within you towards Christians, and yet you want tolerance? Stick to the topic at hand, for once, PLEASE. :slap: