2 unrepentant about selling Katrina gift

[windovervocalcords]

That's exactly what they are. Unrepentant con artists. Most people would feel the same way the church did if treated that way personally.

And having anger and hatred for unrepetant con artists benefits the Church members how? Encouraging them to feel like victims is showing sympathy?

There is another way to look at this. There are other approaches that may be of greater benefit to the people who feel hurt and exploited. That is to rejoice in their ability to give and to practice ethics. Vow to be even more generous and ethical themselves. Take the power back. Surrender to "something unforeseen and upleasant happened." Have compassion for others who are not able to practice virtue. Hire a lawyer if needed. Cut your losses.

I have been ripped off, taken advantage of and had my generosity exploited myself. I know how these folks feel. I have sympathy for the Church members.

I do not appreciate being mischaracterized as having no sympathy for Churches period, DK.

I have had the feeling of regretting my giving. It's a terrible thing to feel. I would want to save everyone else I could by having those negative feelings. I would rather take the loss on myself than have anyone close their heart around their giving.

It's not what happens to us, its how we respond to it.

It is precisely because I value and care for about people of faith and people of no faith that motivates me to write what I do.

 

[Dark Knight]

And having anger and hatred for unrepetant con artists benefits the Church members how? There is another way to look at this that may be of greater benefit to the people who have been harmed.

It is exactly because I have been ripped off myself in giving that I do have sympathy for the Church members. I also have had those feelings, I would want to save everyone else from those negative feelings.

It's not what happens to you, its how you respond to it. I care about people of faith and that is what motivates my line of thinking.

I don't think the article said the members had anger or hatred towards them.

 

[windovervocalcords]

I don't think the article said the members had anger or hatred towards them.

No, but alot of the posters have expressed anger for them.

 

[Karole28]

No, but alot of the posters have expressed anger for them.

And having anger and hatred for unrepetant con artists benefits the Church members how? Encouraging them to feel like victims is showing sympathy?

When I join this church and become their spokesperson, I'll let you know.

 

[Dark Knight]

No, but alot of the posters have expressed anger for them.

Anger towards injustice is justified. That's kind of the purpose of WS. We're not here to have sympathy towards the perps. We can pray for them, but anger at a con job is not unjustified.

 

[BirdieBoo]

Disregarding the moral issues of right and wrong, I wonder if they can be legally prosecuted as there seem to be some things in the original documentation that don't add up now.

Such as the woman's marital status on the buying documents and the selling documents. When we got our house, we had to sign a lot of notarized documents in the presence of a notary. I wonder if perjury would apply?

 

[windovervocalcords]

Anger towards injustice is justified. That's kind of the purpose of WS. We're not here to have sympathy towards the perps. We can pray for them, but anger at a con job is not unjustified.

Some of us do not abide by or believe in practicing even "righteous anger". It's not "necessary" to be angry. Measures can be taken to counter injustice without being angry about it. Anger involves an impulse to harm. Anger is exaggerated aversion.

Anger causes an inability to think clearly. It is a loss of perspective. When one acts from anger more than likely it leads to an escalation. This does not mean one should be passive in the face of abuse. It is simply a statement of fact that any difficulty is best faced with a clear mind and calm resolve.
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
[/font]Surely you are not telling us that the purpose of WS is to promote anger?

 

[JBean]

Some of us do not abide by or believe in practicing even "righteous anger". It's not "necessary" to be angry. Measures can be taken to counter injustice without being angry about it. Anger involves an impulse to harm. Anger is exaggerated aversion.

Anger causes an inability to think clearly. It is a loss of perspective. When one acts from anger more than likely it leads to an escalation. This does not mean one should be passive in the face of abuse. It is simply a statement of fact that any difficulty is best faced with a clear mind and calm resolve.
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
[/font]Surely you are not telling us that the purpose of WS is to promote anger?

I am jumping in the middle here and I have not read most of what has led to this exchange.
But are you saying anger is not a justifiable or reasonable emotion?!

 

[windovervocalcords]

I am jumping in the middle here and I have not read most of what has led to this exchange.
But are you saying anger is not a justifiable or reasonable emotion?!

Anger is a natural emotion. It is not "justifiable" or "reasonable". It is a reaction that comes from habit.

We think it is caused by something outside ourselves but those things are merely triggers.

Anger is triggered by getting what we don't want or not getting what we do want.

It comes from having ignorance about what will truly make us happy. We think it comes from something outside ourselves. That is delusion.

 

[JBean]

Anger is a natural emotion. It is not "justifiable" or "reasonable". It is a reaction that comes from habit.

We think it is caused by something outside ourselves but those things are merely triggers.

Anger is triggered by getting what we don't want or not getting what we do want.

I think anger is often natural,reasonable and healthy.

 

[windovervocalcords]

I think anger is often natural,reasonable and healthy.

"It is natural for the immature to harm others.
Getting angry with them is like resenting a fire for burning."
Shantideva

 

[JBean]

Anger is a natural emotion. It is not "justifiable" or "reasonable". It is a reaction that comes from habit.

We think it is caused by something outside ourselves but those things are merely triggers.

Anger is triggered by getting what we don't want or not getting what we do want.

It comes from having ignorance about what will truly make us happy. We think it comes from something outside ourselves. That is delusion.

I see you have added to your original post.
I think your last statements are nonsense.

 

[Buzz Mills]

Disregarding the moral issues of right and wrong, I wonder if they can be legally prosecuted as there seem to be some things in the original documentation that don't add up now.

Such as the woman's marital status on the buying documents and the selling documents. When we got our house, we had to sign a lot of notarized documents in the presence of a notary. I wonder if perjury would apply?

I would think that they are attempting to skirt around outright fraud. If it can be proven that they intentionally led the church to believe that they were anything other than who they are truly are (the type of individual), then I do believe the church can seek redress from them. A gift obtained through false pretenses. If there is a professional opinion available, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[windovervocalcords]

I see you have added to your original post.
I think your last statements are nonsense.

You are entitled to your opinion of course.

I seem to remember you have a wise sister. Maybe ask her about my post.

'Righteous hatred' is in the same category as 'righteous cancer'or 'righteous tuberculosis'. All of them are absurd concepts."

Alan Wallace

 

[JBean]

"It is natural for the immature to harm others.
Getting angry with them is like resenting a fire for burning."
Shantideva

I think becoming angry when one has been wronged is a place from which to heal.
If someone slaps me in the face, I will be come angry. What I do with that anger is a defintiely a question of maturity or personal growth.
I do not feel a need to lash out or get even or yell or scream when I get angry. I just get angry and am right to do so.
I think those that repress anger are foolish. Coping and channeling that anger into constructive behavior is fulfilling and apporpriate. JMHO of course.

 

[JBean]

You are entitled to your opinion of course.

I seem to remember you have a wise sister. Maybe ask her about my post.

'Righteous hatred' is in the same category as 'righteous cancer'or 'righteous tuberculosis'. All of them are absurd concepts."

Alan Wallace

Hatred and anger are not interchangeable. You are changing terms, or the subject i am not sure which.Why would I ask my sister?

 

[windovervocalcords]

I think becoming angry when one has been wronged is a place from which to heal.
If someone slaps me in the face, I will be come angry. What I do with that anger is a defintiely a question of maturity or personal growth.
I do not feel a need to lash out or get even or yell or scream when I get angry. I just get angry and am right to do so.
I think those that repress anger are foolish. Coping and channeling that anger into constructive behavior is fulfilling and apporpriate. JMHO of course.

Who is talking about repressing anger? Not me.

Neither repressing it nor encouraging it, taking a middle position. I would want my friends to help me to let go of the hot poker of anger rather than continuing to grip tightly on it.

 

[JBean]

I would think that they are attempting to skirt around outright fraud. If it can be proven that they intentionally led the church to believe that they were anything other than who they are truly are (the type of individual), then I do believe the church can seek redress from them. A gift obtained through false pretenses. If there is a professional opinion available, it would be greatly appreciated.

I am not professional of course, but I agree Buzz. There would be the element of fraud if they presented themselves as something they are not.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Hatred and anger are not interchangeable. You are changing terms, or the subject i am not sure which.Why would I ask my sister?

Hatred is in the category of aversion and anger. We are talking degrees of the same basic emotion.

Maybe I have you confused with someone who has a Zen priest for a sister.

 

[JBean]

Who is talking about repressing anger? Not me.

Neither repressing it nor encouraging it, taking a middle position. I would want my friends to help me to let go of the hot poker of anger rather than continuing to grip tightly on it.

Some posts you speak of anger and some you speak of hatred which is it we are discussing?
letting go of the hot poker of anger is an "of course" issue and I addressed that eaelier. What one does with anger is what reveals one's character, IMO.