Me too.
But sadly for Casey, Jesse offered to take a Polygraph and was excluded right away. She's not that smart...:innocent:
2008.09.05 - Richard Grund Interview with OCSO
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Me too.
But sadly for Casey, Jesse offered to take a Polygraph and was excluded right away. She's not that smart...:innocent:
chelle70
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I believe it was Ryan P. that was her boyfriend back then. George talked about him in one of his interviews. He liked Ryan and hoped he would be his son-in-law one day, or something along those lines.
She didn't want JG talking to either of her parents because then he would know that she wasn't going home at night and that they had not seen nor heard from Caylee for over 2 weeks.
So GA knew that KC lied about her job with Sports Authority. Did he also know that she didn't work at Universal? If he knew, then wouldn't he tell Cindy? So why was Cindy meeting KC at Universal to see Caylee? GA admits that KC has issues and didn't do his "cop" thing because Cindy forbid it. Maybe GA was lying because he didn't want to respond with "I can't, or I will help to put my own daughter on death row". Either way, seems they both knew where the evidence would lead, what other excuse could there be for an ex-LE grandfather NOT to investigate the circumstances of his grandchild's disappearance, permission or not from the wife?
JG was an adult and he could count to 9 even if he had to use both hands. He chose to begin and continue a relationship with KC. RG can't blame that on KC's parents.
RG is kind of a strange bird. His web page will not go over well with jurors, they will think he is weird and may disregard anything he has to say.
So GA knew that KC lied about her job with Sports Authority. Did he also know that she didn't work at Universal? If he knew, then wouldn't he tell Cindy? So why was Cindy meeting KC at Universal to see Caylee? GA admits that KC has issues and didn't do his "cop" thing because Cindy forbid it. Maybe GA was lying because he didn't want to respond with "I can't, or I will help to put my own daughter on death row". Either way, seems they both knew where the evidence would lead, what other excuse could there be for an ex-LE grandfather NOT to investigate the circumstances of his grandchild's disappearance, permission or not from the wife?
JG was an adult and he could count to 9 even if he had to use both hands. He chose to begin and continue a relationship with KC. RG can't blame that on KC's parents.
RG is kind of a strange bird. His web page will not go over well with jurors, they will think he is weird and may disregard anything he has to say.
Chiquita71
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Hello WS 
Here is part II and III of Richard Grund's interview with OCSO. There are two more parts and I will have them posted by the end of the week.
September 5th, 2008
Richard Grund interview with OCSO
(continued)
RG: And by this point I'd picked up that Casey likes to tell stories. Uhm, we started to all pick up that Casey had a little problem with exaggeration. Uhm, so that was one thing that struck me. The other thing that struck me was this whole story that Cindy and Casey are best friends, that uh, I can tell you and will testify to the fact that Casey sat at our table over those months when Jesse wasn't there to talk to me, and repeatedly said, "I don't want to turn out like my mother, I don't want to be around my mother, I want out of that house." Uhm, she hated her father for the whole gambling thing and uh, she even tried to get Jesse to move into a little house before they got married. That's how bad she wanted out but the reason that didn't happen was because I told Jesse if you do that I won't preform the ceremony you can't live together before hand otherwise she would have hooked him into doing that. So she wanted out of that house badly, she didn't like her mother, didn't like her father. Now, that may have changed in two years but she was pretty adamant then, uhm so my take on George that night was he must have told his wife that I was coming over and she put the kabash on it or something frightened them 'cause we went in a seven hour period of time, I'm going I want to talk to you I got stuff I want to tell you, to avoiding me. Then when atty Walsh slandered Jesse on TV I called George I wanted to know was he in on this, left a message I said, George I'm a little ticked right now please call me back. The phone rang and caller I.D. comes up and it's Cindy. "George is a little too busy to talk to you what's the problem?" I made a mistake I was angry, I should have said no, I want to talk to George but I didn't do that and I went off on Cindy. And we had an interesting conversation ah, I told 'em what the lawyer had said, "Well, I don't know anything about that" and I said look, you know what Cindy all bets are off, anybody asks me a direct question about your daughter I'm going to give them a direct answer, said I'm not hiding anything and that's when she began to proceed, "Well, your sons no angel either that I think he's involved somehow." Those were her exact words. That afternoon I had spoken to Corp Williams, is that...
LE: Affirmative
RG: ...and we're trying to figure out how everybody was putting Jesse in the middle of it and Corp Williams said,"Well I'll tell you where you need to look, Cindy Anthony dropping your sons name left and right and he said to me "she's telling people he's involved somehow." So when Cindy repeated to me word for word what Corp Williams said I said you know what Cindy I was talking to somebody in the Sheriff's office the afternoon and they told me you would say that word for word. And so I, it, I said here's what I don't understand you're talking about how special your daughter is, I said she ripped Jesse off for 250.00 dollars. He paid a phone bill for her and she gave Jesse a bad check. Her response was, "Well, she only did it once." Saying well, I guess it's okay it was only once, ya know I said Cindy but here's what's even worse, you knew Jesse was not the father of that baby and the only reason I know that is because George told me so. When the DNA evidence came in her admitted that you both knew the math didn't work. I said so you were gonna allow him to take the fall for a baby that wasn't even his, I said and even that he was still gonna marry your daughter and raise Caylee as his own. And her exact words were, "Well nobody put a gun to his head." And I went you know what Cindy this conversations over I said you won't be hearing from me again, we're done. That told me right then and there a couple of things in my opinion, Cindy's probably as dilusional as Casey is, but also told me that right and wrong was irrelevant, the ends justifying the means which is why I think we are where we are now with numerous people coming back to me and saying they're working hard to frame your son. Ah, somebody from Fox News called and told me that, all of Padilla's people have called me up and said you'd, you'd better gt on the move here they are actively trying to frame your son.
LE: When was your last conversation with the Anthony family? Was it that one with Cindy?
RG: No, actually I've been talking to Lee remember I sa, mentioned to you that uhm, I had offered Lee somebody to talk to, now he'd been, he'd been using Jesse as somebody to talk to because he was frustrated uhm, so then he started talking to myself and after a couple of conversations I told Jesse, I said Jesse I got a bad feeling that we're being played. He said, "do you think that Lee's playing all innocent and in the middle" I said from the last conversation I had I'm starting to question why he's so friendly with us and why he's tellin' us what he's tell' us, 'cause he was telling me, you know Lee would come right out and say, "My parents are out of control, we make a plan but we're not going to do it, we get outside", I mean he was not being complimentary toward his parents. And the last couple of conversations, says, "Guys I'm completely out of the loop, I don't even know what's going on around here."
LE: When was the last conversation you had with Lee?
RG: I spoke to him two weeks ago and the reason I remember that is, somebody from Fox News called me up and says, "there's a name, um we don't know who he is" and I said who's that? They said, "somebody named Kyle" I said I never heard the name before, they said, "some, everybody's hot on this Kyle, so see what you can find out." I called up Lee and I said Lee who's, is there a Kyle involved in Casey's life I said because he's not in my notes. "Well, yeah there's two or three of them and one's a close family friend." I said well, coul, ah can you give me a name, and he goes, "Well, let me see who they're talking about" and he never called me back and here's something really interesting he blocked me out from Casey's MySpace profile. Up till that afternoon I had access to all her comments which I've been saving and adding to my notes, I had access to all her friends. That afternoon askin' him about this Kyle, I'm suddenly blocked, I can't get back into her profile. That was the last time I spoke to Lee.
LE: And that was the last time you spoke to anyone in the Anthony family?
RG: Yes. Now the last time I communicated with Lee was by text message, uhm and it was just something I felt left to do he had gone to do the Trenton Duckett vigil and I just...
LE: That was the night that, ah, Casey was coming home wasn't it?
RG: Right, I think so, and I sent him a text message and said look for what its worth I said I'm proud of the way you've handled yourself. I said and uhm, I think you're a good young man just keep doing what your doing. And his message back and I still have it he said, "You don't know how much that means to me." Ah, I don't think his father tells him stuff like that, and in my opinion Lee's a good kid, I think he's in a lousy family.
LE: What has Jesse told you about what's going on? What's his understanding about what's going on? I know you've talked to your son, you and your son have a close relationship...
RG: Right. Right, we have uh, almost every conversation he's had with Lee he's come to share with me.
LE: What does he think is happening?
RG: You mean in the case?
LE: Well, as far as what, what does he perceive the familys doing, what's his take on this whole thing? (crosstalk)
RG: His take is, and we both are in agreement that something changed, well first of all we, we know Cindy's not(inaudible)sorry forgive me for saying that, her storys never stayed the same but the longer we go into this the more they circle the wagons. And the more the story gets honed in uhm, I, I held out hope in the beginning that Caylee was alive. I really believed that Casey had stashed her somewhere or that somebody had taken her. Uhm, and the reason to that is I don't know what your spiritual beliefs are but on, I can tell you when it was because it's still in my notes, on Friday July 25th at 2:25 p.m. I was praying with somebody on the phone and I had what's called an open vision and here's what an open vision is in ah, Christian faith. I could be sitting here looking at you but I wouldn't be seeing you I would be seeing something else. And this is what I saw in the vision, I saw Caylee asleep on her right side, I saw sand and dirt shavings I knew water was over here because I could smell it, and I saw a gray house here and it looked like she was sleeping because she was totally motionless on her right side and then in the vision I saw ah, what appeared to be a very large man and in my notes I wrote human or angel, I don't know, who reached down with his right hand took her by his left and walked away. So I wrote all that down, the person praying with me saw almost everything I saw. I did a youtube tribute to Caylee and when I down loaded pictures off of Casey's profile one of Caylee sitting in a little sandbox, in the one near the playhouse I almost barfed on my computer, 'cause I realized what I was looking at, I was looking at what I saw in the vision and what I wrote in my notes what I told Jesse is if anything happened to Caylee, that's where it happened. (Mr. Grund was crying while describing this) I don't know where the dogs hit on but that's what I saw. Uhm, that I was holding out hope that maybe the guy walking her away was somebody that took her because from what I've heard from friends and also from Jesse, Casey had a habit of when guys would come over to the house, when mom and dad weren't home she'd leave Caylee unattended to be with them. Now in Jesse's case, Caylee was a baby in a crib, I said you don't do that. Older, that's big trouble, that that's big trouble. Ah, as far as Casey as a mother what I saw she seemed to be a doting loving mother and I may have said this to you in my first email Caylee was the center of Casey's life. Without Caylee she has no self worth and she has no value because she has no way to manipulate friends and family to bail her out.
LE: Did Casey ever tell you anything about her and her mother in regards to who was the better mother for Caylee like did her mother threaten her ah saying you're worthless, you need to listen to me, anything along those sort?
RG: Not that early in the game there obviously were issues, when we went over there to the family BBQ to introduce the families it was obvious who the lead dog was, the lead dog was Cindy, and whatever she wanted to have happen, happened and if she wanted Caylee to do something that's what got done. Uhm, I never, I never heard, the only thing I heard from Jesse is when the fights began the fights began over Caylee the fights began with "you love Caylee more than you love me, the only reason your marrying me is because of Caylee." So, this jealousy I'm hearing now makes sense 'cause she had it then.
LE: Did she ever mention uh, to you aside from Zenaida, did she ever mention Juliette Lewis to you as a friend of her's or this Jeff Hopkins with Zack?
RG: Yes, that was that(crosstalk)introduction...
LE: Introduction...(crosstalk)have you ever met any of these people?
RG: No sir, no sir.
LE: Have you ever recalled being present in the room with her while she's talking to one of these people or say hi Zenaida hi (crosstalk)how are ya or anything like that?
RG: No, at that time no.
LE: Any other time?
RG: No
LE: Uhm, do you know if Jesses ever been in the room or just told you he's ever met any of these people?
RG: No, no in fact when she came in with the whole Zenaida thing same story he'd never met 'em before never heard of them before, never met Jeff ah, these are all names that Casey gave us.
LE: did uhm, did he ever tell you about any conversations he may have had with her ah, we'll ask you during the time that she went missing where, where Casey might have reached out to him for advice or an opinion, did he ever mention anything like that to you?
RG: Well, I asked you know, I wanted to know and I'll be honest with ya I wanted him to stay away from her, as much as I have compassion for Casey I have, ah as much mercy as I can muster uhm, Casey hurt, hurt the family. She used us she took advantage of us, uhm, the word betrayal came up and I found it interesting that's what's on Cindy's(inaudible: blog?) uhm, so when this, when Caylee went missing and Casey would reach out to him he would tell me like the time she came over to take a shower ah, his roommates a friend of mine because I helped him get in there...
LE: What's his roommates name?
RG: Rick Oswald, his' a member of my ministry he's also uhm, my martial arts teacher he's a fifth degree black belt. Ah, he had told me about meeting her, and I said Jesse don't you find it odd Casey shows up at 10:30 in the morning needing to take a shower, so what do you think she was doing there? "I think she was trying to seduce me" well what did you do, he said, "I got away from her and played X-Box." And I said son, I don't think that's what she was doing, he said, "Well, what do you think she was doing?" I said, I think she was looking for something of yours and she needs a scapegoat and you're gonna be it, she was in your shower, she was in your bathroom, she could've taken, ah a pair of underwear, she could have taken some hair(inaudible)at that point he didn't think she was that diabolical, I did. There was no reason for her to be there at that time of morning and that's why I was going to suggest that if nobody's looked at the woods that's behind the Arden Villas you might consider it. That's long after at this point I don't know, after reading your documents I've come to a different perception of Casey Anthony.
LE: In the time that she was ah, I guess getting along with her family and coming over as far as work was concerned did, did you, what did she say she did for a living?
RG: She worked at Kodak, uh, when it was Kodak.
LE: Uh-hum
RG: The only reason I know that, she helped my younger son Chris get a job there and when my family would go to the park a couple of times she'd back door them into like the(inaudible).
LE: When was, when was the last time you actually spoke ah, that Casey actually came to your house to be with you or Jesse or the family? Do you remember when that was...(crosstalk)
RG: Yeah, that would have been ah, either late April or early May of '06 'cause that would have been the last week we saw her, she came by to have Casey, Caylee babysat she was supposed to meet us at the civic center and never showed up, and that was the last time we ever saw her.
LE: Okay. Did she ever call you on her own or ask you say, you now how are you? Or did she ever call you personally...
RG: No, she would, she would talk to me when she came to the house because Jesse would be late on a call with progressive so she'd sit at the table and just chit chat.
LE: What about ah, what about your wife, did your wife, any relationship with Casey, anything above and beyond what you guys had(crosstalk)
RG: No, just about the same, the same.
LE: I stepped out for a couple minutes, so I just have a couple questions. Uhm, did you ever hear that of any, of, of problems between Casey or Cindy the day before ah, she turned up missing?
RG: The only thing I heard of was from Jesse from Lee and at that point we don't now if he's tellin' us the truth(crosstalk)...
LE: What did, what did Lee tell(crosstalk)...Jesse?
RG: Well Lee had told Jesse uhm, was that, that fight the night before had escalated to the point that ah, Cindy had wrapped her hands around Casey's throat and was trying to strangle her.
LE: Okay, Lee told this to Jesse?
RG: Jesse, right.
LE: Okay did ah, did ah did Jesse ever tell you about any other incidents that ah, where, where Cindy and Casey had(crosstalk)
RG: (interrupting) That was the only one that I heard of, that was the only one I heard of...
LE: Okay
RG: ...and at that point, that's that's such bombshell stuff, I didn't know, we weren't sure if Lee was telling the truth or not and also, and this is going to sound naive, we were kind of trying to stay on the inside.
LE: Did Lee ever try, I'm sorry, did Jesse ever tell you anything about Lee and, and Casey's relationship?
RG: The only thing I ever heard, it was an odd relationship it was kind of a, ah(sigh)when I first met Lee in ah, '06 not the same young man his is now. He was very quiet, very withdrawn, very ah, off. Ya know a Star Wars geek.
LE: Okay
RG: The only thing I heard was that ah, they had, they had some, I don't wanna say a, love hate relationship but it, it you know what I'm hearing now is oh, he was her protector but that wasn't what I got.
LE: Alright. Now early on when Casey became pregnant, ahm, she said that Jesse was the father...
RG: Right
LE: ...was there ever any conversation after, after that as to who the father might be? Once, once the paternity test showed that ah, that Jesse was not the father?
RG: Ah, the only conversation that ever came up that she(inaudible), you know it just dawned on me she never even apologized for lying to us and implicating Jesse. Uh, the story was that um, he was a one night stand from, who lived some place else, well it wasn't until a year later that we heard oh, he had died.
LE: Uh-hum
RG: ...my problem with the story was that when I first met Casey personally it was early of '05, I want to say either, would probably be June because Chris was just getting out of school and she helped him get a job a Kodak. She came to our house to give Chris some paperwork for the job, Jesse came inside and I asked him who that was, he said, "remember that girl I dated last year, that's her." I said, Jesse she's pregnant, "oh, no she's not she's having some female problems" I said no Jesse, I now when I see a pregnant woman and she's pregnant. She was lying(inaudible)she has never told anybody who the father was or uhm...
LE: What's your understanding of how ah, Cindy and George found out that Casey was pregnant? Did you ever hear how that happened or?
RG: What I heard off hand from, from Jesse afterward was that finally Casey was showing to the point that, they took her to the dr. and got that confirmed. That would have been like July of '05.
LE: Okay. Did ah, Jesse ever tell you anything about Casey that ah, you think is important to us?
RG: (long pause) Nothing that I haven't already seen in your notes...
LE: Jesse, Jesse ever talk to you about ah, any of his ah, any of the people he went to the academy with and their relationship with Casey or did that...
RG: Well I knew about, I knew about the whole Russiano thing before that.
LE: Well ah, how did you now about that?
RG: Uh, what happened was after Jesse and Casey broke up the second time ah, he finally accepted the fact that she, she wasn't the person he, he thought she was and wanted her to be. Because when Jesse and Casey broke up in May of, May-June of '06 I had already gone to a MySpace page and saved two pages full of comments between he and a young man named Adam. Adam is...
LE: Adam and who?
RG: Casey
LE: Adam and Casey, okay.
RG: Yeah, and I don't know Adam's last name, I'm trying to find it.
(End of parts II and III)
Here is part II and III of Richard Grund's interview with OCSO. There are two more parts and I will have them posted by the end of the week.
September 5th, 2008
Richard Grund interview with OCSO
(continued)
RG: And by this point I'd picked up that Casey likes to tell stories. Uhm, we started to all pick up that Casey had a little problem with exaggeration. Uhm, so that was one thing that struck me. The other thing that struck me was this whole story that Cindy and Casey are best friends, that uh, I can tell you and will testify to the fact that Casey sat at our table over those months when Jesse wasn't there to talk to me, and repeatedly said, "I don't want to turn out like my mother, I don't want to be around my mother, I want out of that house." Uhm, she hated her father for the whole gambling thing and uh, she even tried to get Jesse to move into a little house before they got married. That's how bad she wanted out but the reason that didn't happen was because I told Jesse if you do that I won't preform the ceremony you can't live together before hand otherwise she would have hooked him into doing that. So she wanted out of that house badly, she didn't like her mother, didn't like her father. Now, that may have changed in two years but she was pretty adamant then, uhm so my take on George that night was he must have told his wife that I was coming over and she put the kabash on it or something frightened them 'cause we went in a seven hour period of time, I'm going I want to talk to you I got stuff I want to tell you, to avoiding me. Then when atty Walsh slandered Jesse on TV I called George I wanted to know was he in on this, left a message I said, George I'm a little ticked right now please call me back. The phone rang and caller I.D. comes up and it's Cindy. "George is a little too busy to talk to you what's the problem?" I made a mistake I was angry, I should have said no, I want to talk to George but I didn't do that and I went off on Cindy. And we had an interesting conversation ah, I told 'em what the lawyer had said, "Well, I don't know anything about that" and I said look, you know what Cindy all bets are off, anybody asks me a direct question about your daughter I'm going to give them a direct answer, said I'm not hiding anything and that's when she began to proceed, "Well, your sons no angel either that I think he's involved somehow." Those were her exact words. That afternoon I had spoken to Corp Williams, is that...
LE: Affirmative
RG: ...and we're trying to figure out how everybody was putting Jesse in the middle of it and Corp Williams said,"Well I'll tell you where you need to look, Cindy Anthony dropping your sons name left and right and he said to me "she's telling people he's involved somehow." So when Cindy repeated to me word for word what Corp Williams said I said you know what Cindy I was talking to somebody in the Sheriff's office the afternoon and they told me you would say that word for word. And so I, it, I said here's what I don't understand you're talking about how special your daughter is, I said she ripped Jesse off for 250.00 dollars. He paid a phone bill for her and she gave Jesse a bad check. Her response was, "Well, she only did it once." Saying well, I guess it's okay it was only once, ya know I said Cindy but here's what's even worse, you knew Jesse was not the father of that baby and the only reason I know that is because George told me so. When the DNA evidence came in her admitted that you both knew the math didn't work. I said so you were gonna allow him to take the fall for a baby that wasn't even his, I said and even that he was still gonna marry your daughter and raise Caylee as his own. And her exact words were, "Well nobody put a gun to his head." And I went you know what Cindy this conversations over I said you won't be hearing from me again, we're done. That told me right then and there a couple of things in my opinion, Cindy's probably as dilusional as Casey is, but also told me that right and wrong was irrelevant, the ends justifying the means which is why I think we are where we are now with numerous people coming back to me and saying they're working hard to frame your son. Ah, somebody from Fox News called and told me that, all of Padilla's people have called me up and said you'd, you'd better gt on the move here they are actively trying to frame your son.
LE: When was your last conversation with the Anthony family? Was it that one with Cindy?
RG: No, actually I've been talking to Lee remember I sa, mentioned to you that uhm, I had offered Lee somebody to talk to, now he'd been, he'd been using Jesse as somebody to talk to because he was frustrated uhm, so then he started talking to myself and after a couple of conversations I told Jesse, I said Jesse I got a bad feeling that we're being played. He said, "do you think that Lee's playing all innocent and in the middle" I said from the last conversation I had I'm starting to question why he's so friendly with us and why he's tellin' us what he's tell' us, 'cause he was telling me, you know Lee would come right out and say, "My parents are out of control, we make a plan but we're not going to do it, we get outside", I mean he was not being complimentary toward his parents. And the last couple of conversations, says, "Guys I'm completely out of the loop, I don't even know what's going on around here."
LE: When was the last conversation you had with Lee?
RG: I spoke to him two weeks ago and the reason I remember that is, somebody from Fox News called me up and says, "there's a name, um we don't know who he is" and I said who's that? They said, "somebody named Kyle" I said I never heard the name before, they said, "some, everybody's hot on this Kyle, so see what you can find out." I called up Lee and I said Lee who's, is there a Kyle involved in Casey's life I said because he's not in my notes. "Well, yeah there's two or three of them and one's a close family friend." I said well, coul, ah can you give me a name, and he goes, "Well, let me see who they're talking about" and he never called me back and here's something really interesting he blocked me out from Casey's MySpace profile. Up till that afternoon I had access to all her comments which I've been saving and adding to my notes, I had access to all her friends. That afternoon askin' him about this Kyle, I'm suddenly blocked, I can't get back into her profile. That was the last time I spoke to Lee.
LE: And that was the last time you spoke to anyone in the Anthony family?
RG: Yes. Now the last time I communicated with Lee was by text message, uhm and it was just something I felt left to do he had gone to do the Trenton Duckett vigil and I just...
LE: That was the night that, ah, Casey was coming home wasn't it?
RG: Right, I think so, and I sent him a text message and said look for what its worth I said I'm proud of the way you've handled yourself. I said and uhm, I think you're a good young man just keep doing what your doing. And his message back and I still have it he said, "You don't know how much that means to me." Ah, I don't think his father tells him stuff like that, and in my opinion Lee's a good kid, I think he's in a lousy family.
LE: What has Jesse told you about what's going on? What's his understanding about what's going on? I know you've talked to your son, you and your son have a close relationship...
RG: Right. Right, we have uh, almost every conversation he's had with Lee he's come to share with me.
LE: What does he think is happening?
RG: You mean in the case?
LE: Well, as far as what, what does he perceive the familys doing, what's his take on this whole thing? (crosstalk)
RG: His take is, and we both are in agreement that something changed, well first of all we, we know Cindy's not(inaudible)sorry forgive me for saying that, her storys never stayed the same but the longer we go into this the more they circle the wagons. And the more the story gets honed in uhm, I, I held out hope in the beginning that Caylee was alive. I really believed that Casey had stashed her somewhere or that somebody had taken her. Uhm, and the reason to that is I don't know what your spiritual beliefs are but on, I can tell you when it was because it's still in my notes, on Friday July 25th at 2:25 p.m. I was praying with somebody on the phone and I had what's called an open vision and here's what an open vision is in ah, Christian faith. I could be sitting here looking at you but I wouldn't be seeing you I would be seeing something else. And this is what I saw in the vision, I saw Caylee asleep on her right side, I saw sand and dirt shavings I knew water was over here because I could smell it, and I saw a gray house here and it looked like she was sleeping because she was totally motionless on her right side and then in the vision I saw ah, what appeared to be a very large man and in my notes I wrote human or angel, I don't know, who reached down with his right hand took her by his left and walked away. So I wrote all that down, the person praying with me saw almost everything I saw. I did a youtube tribute to Caylee and when I down loaded pictures off of Casey's profile one of Caylee sitting in a little sandbox, in the one near the playhouse I almost barfed on my computer, 'cause I realized what I was looking at, I was looking at what I saw in the vision and what I wrote in my notes what I told Jesse is if anything happened to Caylee, that's where it happened. (Mr. Grund was crying while describing this) I don't know where the dogs hit on but that's what I saw. Uhm, that I was holding out hope that maybe the guy walking her away was somebody that took her because from what I've heard from friends and also from Jesse, Casey had a habit of when guys would come over to the house, when mom and dad weren't home she'd leave Caylee unattended to be with them. Now in Jesse's case, Caylee was a baby in a crib, I said you don't do that. Older, that's big trouble, that that's big trouble. Ah, as far as Casey as a mother what I saw she seemed to be a doting loving mother and I may have said this to you in my first email Caylee was the center of Casey's life. Without Caylee she has no self worth and she has no value because she has no way to manipulate friends and family to bail her out.
LE: Did Casey ever tell you anything about her and her mother in regards to who was the better mother for Caylee like did her mother threaten her ah saying you're worthless, you need to listen to me, anything along those sort?
RG: Not that early in the game there obviously were issues, when we went over there to the family BBQ to introduce the families it was obvious who the lead dog was, the lead dog was Cindy, and whatever she wanted to have happen, happened and if she wanted Caylee to do something that's what got done. Uhm, I never, I never heard, the only thing I heard from Jesse is when the fights began the fights began over Caylee the fights began with "you love Caylee more than you love me, the only reason your marrying me is because of Caylee." So, this jealousy I'm hearing now makes sense 'cause she had it then.
LE: Did she ever mention uh, to you aside from Zenaida, did she ever mention Juliette Lewis to you as a friend of her's or this Jeff Hopkins with Zack?
RG: Yes, that was that(crosstalk)introduction...
LE: Introduction...(crosstalk)have you ever met any of these people?
RG: No sir, no sir.
LE: Have you ever recalled being present in the room with her while she's talking to one of these people or say hi Zenaida hi (crosstalk)how are ya or anything like that?
RG: No, at that time no.
LE: Any other time?
RG: No
LE: Uhm, do you know if Jesses ever been in the room or just told you he's ever met any of these people?
RG: No, no in fact when she came in with the whole Zenaida thing same story he'd never met 'em before never heard of them before, never met Jeff ah, these are all names that Casey gave us.
LE: did uhm, did he ever tell you about any conversations he may have had with her ah, we'll ask you during the time that she went missing where, where Casey might have reached out to him for advice or an opinion, did he ever mention anything like that to you?
RG: Well, I asked you know, I wanted to know and I'll be honest with ya I wanted him to stay away from her, as much as I have compassion for Casey I have, ah as much mercy as I can muster uhm, Casey hurt, hurt the family. She used us she took advantage of us, uhm, the word betrayal came up and I found it interesting that's what's on Cindy's(inaudible: blog?) uhm, so when this, when Caylee went missing and Casey would reach out to him he would tell me like the time she came over to take a shower ah, his roommates a friend of mine because I helped him get in there...
LE: What's his roommates name?
RG: Rick Oswald, his' a member of my ministry he's also uhm, my martial arts teacher he's a fifth degree black belt. Ah, he had told me about meeting her, and I said Jesse don't you find it odd Casey shows up at 10:30 in the morning needing to take a shower, so what do you think she was doing there? "I think she was trying to seduce me" well what did you do, he said, "I got away from her and played X-Box." And I said son, I don't think that's what she was doing, he said, "Well, what do you think she was doing?" I said, I think she was looking for something of yours and she needs a scapegoat and you're gonna be it, she was in your shower, she was in your bathroom, she could've taken, ah a pair of underwear, she could have taken some hair(inaudible)at that point he didn't think she was that diabolical, I did. There was no reason for her to be there at that time of morning and that's why I was going to suggest that if nobody's looked at the woods that's behind the Arden Villas you might consider it. That's long after at this point I don't know, after reading your documents I've come to a different perception of Casey Anthony.
LE: In the time that she was ah, I guess getting along with her family and coming over as far as work was concerned did, did you, what did she say she did for a living?
RG: She worked at Kodak, uh, when it was Kodak.
LE: Uh-hum
RG: The only reason I know that, she helped my younger son Chris get a job there and when my family would go to the park a couple of times she'd back door them into like the(inaudible).
LE: When was, when was the last time you actually spoke ah, that Casey actually came to your house to be with you or Jesse or the family? Do you remember when that was...(crosstalk)
RG: Yeah, that would have been ah, either late April or early May of '06 'cause that would have been the last week we saw her, she came by to have Casey, Caylee babysat she was supposed to meet us at the civic center and never showed up, and that was the last time we ever saw her.
LE: Okay. Did she ever call you on her own or ask you say, you now how are you? Or did she ever call you personally...
RG: No, she would, she would talk to me when she came to the house because Jesse would be late on a call with progressive so she'd sit at the table and just chit chat.
LE: What about ah, what about your wife, did your wife, any relationship with Casey, anything above and beyond what you guys had(crosstalk)
RG: No, just about the same, the same.
LE: I stepped out for a couple minutes, so I just have a couple questions. Uhm, did you ever hear that of any, of, of problems between Casey or Cindy the day before ah, she turned up missing?
RG: The only thing I heard of was from Jesse from Lee and at that point we don't now if he's tellin' us the truth(crosstalk)...
LE: What did, what did Lee tell(crosstalk)...Jesse?
RG: Well Lee had told Jesse uhm, was that, that fight the night before had escalated to the point that ah, Cindy had wrapped her hands around Casey's throat and was trying to strangle her.
LE: Okay, Lee told this to Jesse?
RG: Jesse, right.
LE: Okay did ah, did ah did Jesse ever tell you about any other incidents that ah, where, where Cindy and Casey had(crosstalk)
RG: (interrupting) That was the only one that I heard of, that was the only one I heard of...
LE: Okay
RG: ...and at that point, that's that's such bombshell stuff, I didn't know, we weren't sure if Lee was telling the truth or not and also, and this is going to sound naive, we were kind of trying to stay on the inside.
LE: Did Lee ever try, I'm sorry, did Jesse ever tell you anything about Lee and, and Casey's relationship?
RG: The only thing I ever heard, it was an odd relationship it was kind of a, ah(sigh)when I first met Lee in ah, '06 not the same young man his is now. He was very quiet, very withdrawn, very ah, off. Ya know a Star Wars geek.
LE: Okay
RG: The only thing I heard was that ah, they had, they had some, I don't wanna say a, love hate relationship but it, it you know what I'm hearing now is oh, he was her protector but that wasn't what I got.
LE: Alright. Now early on when Casey became pregnant, ahm, she said that Jesse was the father...
RG: Right
LE: ...was there ever any conversation after, after that as to who the father might be? Once, once the paternity test showed that ah, that Jesse was not the father?
RG: Ah, the only conversation that ever came up that she(inaudible), you know it just dawned on me she never even apologized for lying to us and implicating Jesse. Uh, the story was that um, he was a one night stand from, who lived some place else, well it wasn't until a year later that we heard oh, he had died.
LE: Uh-hum
RG: ...my problem with the story was that when I first met Casey personally it was early of '05, I want to say either, would probably be June because Chris was just getting out of school and she helped him get a job a Kodak. She came to our house to give Chris some paperwork for the job, Jesse came inside and I asked him who that was, he said, "remember that girl I dated last year, that's her." I said, Jesse she's pregnant, "oh, no she's not she's having some female problems" I said no Jesse, I now when I see a pregnant woman and she's pregnant. She was lying(inaudible)she has never told anybody who the father was or uhm...
LE: What's your understanding of how ah, Cindy and George found out that Casey was pregnant? Did you ever hear how that happened or?
RG: What I heard off hand from, from Jesse afterward was that finally Casey was showing to the point that, they took her to the dr. and got that confirmed. That would have been like July of '05.
LE: Okay. Did ah, Jesse ever tell you anything about Casey that ah, you think is important to us?
RG: (long pause) Nothing that I haven't already seen in your notes...
LE: Jesse, Jesse ever talk to you about ah, any of his ah, any of the people he went to the academy with and their relationship with Casey or did that...
RG: Well I knew about, I knew about the whole Russiano thing before that.
LE: Well ah, how did you now about that?
RG: Uh, what happened was after Jesse and Casey broke up the second time ah, he finally accepted the fact that she, she wasn't the person he, he thought she was and wanted her to be. Because when Jesse and Casey broke up in May of, May-June of '06 I had already gone to a MySpace page and saved two pages full of comments between he and a young man named Adam. Adam is...
LE: Adam and who?
RG: Casey
LE: Adam and Casey, okay.
RG: Yeah, and I don't know Adam's last name, I'm trying to find it.
(End of parts II and III)
Chiquita71
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Hello WS
Well, I am sorry I never posted the rest of this interview. If anyone wants me to I will. But, this came in handy as I can't figure out this part right now. RG is saying that when he first saw Casey, she was already pregnant. He says it was obvious just like RP said it was. Jesse tells his father that he dated Casey "last year." So I guess they had broken up?
How did Casey convince Jesse and his family that Caylee was his baby when RG saw that Casey was already pregnant? And, was Casey really working for Kodak at this time? Could she have helped "chris" get a job there? And, I wonder if this "chris" has anything to do with Casey's "work bag" that had the name "chris" on it?
Sorry, this may all be nothing but it was bugging my mind.
RG: ...my problem with the story was that when I first met Casey personally it was early of '05, I want to say either, would probably be June because Chris was just getting out of school and she helped him get a job a Kodak. She came to our house to give Chris some paperwork for the job, Jesse came inside and I asked him who that was, he said, "remember that girl I dated last year, that's her." I said, Jesse she's pregnant, "oh, no she's not she's having some female problems" I said no Jesse, I now when I see a pregnant woman and she's pregnant. She was lying(inaudible)she has never told anybody who the father was or uhm...
LE: What's your understanding of how ah, Cindy and George found out that Casey was pregnant? Did you ever hear how that happened or?
RG: What I heard off hand from, from Jesse afterward was that finally Casey was showing to the point that, they took her to the dr. and got that confirmed. That would have been like July of '05.
I do think this shows that Casey was already being a "sociopath" as she was already lying easily about being pregnant and saying she had "female problems." And, this is crazy because-if Jesse started dating her again after this...he thought she just had "female problems" but then just a few months later: here's Caylee! Why didn't Jesse realize she had lied about being pregnant?
...jmo...
Well, I am sorry I never posted the rest of this interview. If anyone wants me to I will. But, this came in handy as I can't figure out this part right now. RG is saying that when he first saw Casey, she was already pregnant. He says it was obvious just like RP said it was. Jesse tells his father that he dated Casey "last year." So I guess they had broken up?
How did Casey convince Jesse and his family that Caylee was his baby when RG saw that Casey was already pregnant? And, was Casey really working for Kodak at this time? Could she have helped "chris" get a job there? And, I wonder if this "chris" has anything to do with Casey's "work bag" that had the name "chris" on it?
Sorry, this may all be nothing but it was bugging my mind.
RG: ...my problem with the story was that when I first met Casey personally it was early of '05, I want to say either, would probably be June because Chris was just getting out of school and she helped him get a job a Kodak. She came to our house to give Chris some paperwork for the job, Jesse came inside and I asked him who that was, he said, "remember that girl I dated last year, that's her." I said, Jesse she's pregnant, "oh, no she's not she's having some female problems" I said no Jesse, I now when I see a pregnant woman and she's pregnant. She was lying(inaudible)she has never told anybody who the father was or uhm...
LE: What's your understanding of how ah, Cindy and George found out that Casey was pregnant? Did you ever hear how that happened or?
RG: What I heard off hand from, from Jesse afterward was that finally Casey was showing to the point that, they took her to the dr. and got that confirmed. That would have been like July of '05.
I do think this shows that Casey was already being a "sociopath" as she was already lying easily about being pregnant and saying she had "female problems." And, this is crazy because-if Jesse started dating her again after this...he thought she just had "female problems" but then just a few months later: here's Caylee! Why didn't Jesse realize she had lied about being pregnant?
...jmo...
AZlawyer
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Hello WS
Well, I am sorry I never posted the rest of this interview. If anyone wants me to I will. But, this came in handy as I can't figure out this part right now. RG is saying that when he first saw Casey, she was already pregnant. He says it was obvious just like RP said it was. Jesse tells his father that he dated Casey "last year." So I guess they had broken up?
How did Casey convince Jesse and his family that Caylee was his baby when RG saw that Casey was already pregnant? And, was Casey really working for Kodak at this time? Could she have helped "chris" get a job there? And, I wonder if this "chris" has anything to do with Casey's "work bag" that had the name "chris" on it?
Sorry, this may all be nothing but it was bugging my mind.
RG: ...my problem with the story was that when I first met Casey personally it was early of '05, I want to say either, would probably be June because Chris was just getting out of school and she helped him get a job a Kodak. She came to our house to give Chris some paperwork for the job, Jesse came inside and I asked him who that was, he said, "remember that girl I dated last year, that's her." I said, Jesse she's pregnant, "oh, no she's not she's having some female problems" I said no Jesse, I now when I see a pregnant woman and she's pregnant. She was lying(inaudible)she has never told anybody who the father was or uhm...
LE: What's your understanding of how ah, Cindy and George found out that Casey was pregnant? Did you ever hear how that happened or?
RG: What I heard off hand from, from Jesse afterward was that finally Casey was showing to the point that, they took her to the dr. and got that confirmed. That would have been like July of '05.
I do think this shows that Casey was already being a "sociopath" as she was already lying easily about being pregnant and saying she had "female problems." And, this is crazy because-if Jesse started dating her again after this...he thought she just had "female problems" but then just a few months later: here's Caylee! Why didn't Jesse realize she had lied about being pregnant?
...jmo...
Thank you for reminding me of this!! I had been trying to find a "Chris" who had actually worked at Universal/Kodak. This Chris is Jesse's little brother, and Casey got him a job there (back when she actually worked there). I'm sure she would have had opportunities to steal his name tag.
Chiquita71
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RG: Well Lee had told Jesse uhm, was that, that fight the night before had escalated to the point that ah, Cindy had wrapped her hands around Casey's throat and was trying to strangle her.
LE: Okay, Lee told this to Jesse?
RG: Jesse, right.
I don't think Jesse would lie. And I don't know what good it would do for Lee to make up a story about Cindy "wrapping her hands around Casey's throat and trying to strangle her."
I think that happened. And, imho...you don't just start being a physically punishing person in a day. What I mean is, Cindy had to have been a hitter, smacker...I don't want to say that Casey was "physically abused" in the manner that so many children who end up in hospitals because of their parents are: but that Casey learned to use physical violence when she was mad, from Cindy.
Cindy choked Casey and so Casey had enough rage inside her to hurt Caylee.
"I'm just saying that murder vents rage. Rage is not reason. The murders were without reason. Don't try to understand murder with reason."
~Gary Gilmore, convicted murderer.
That is a quote from "Without Conscience": link provided by The World According...
http://books.google.com/books?id=5E22N1_7MnUC&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=duping+delight-+Dr.+Robert+Hare&source=bl&ots=0oL8pNGtsu&sig=ThsR4E9g7NghRtPBMhGWSt_5dWo&hl=en&ei=w3J5S_rYOs2ztgf9t42bCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CAoQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false
ETA: Also. The video where Casey has Caylee on the floor and is rough-housing with her and then the video where Cindy and Casey are smashing cake on each other and Caylee tries to put cake on Casey: I hate how quickly Casey's hand goes up to stop Caylee. I would have let a baby put the cake on my face before I would have grabbed her arm like that to stop her. I think Casey treated Caylee like a rough play thing and when she was done she threw her play thing away. (Sorry Caylee Baby)
:cow:
LE: Okay, Lee told this to Jesse?
RG: Jesse, right.
I don't think Jesse would lie. And I don't know what good it would do for Lee to make up a story about Cindy "wrapping her hands around Casey's throat and trying to strangle her."
I think that happened. And, imho...you don't just start being a physically punishing person in a day. What I mean is, Cindy had to have been a hitter, smacker...I don't want to say that Casey was "physically abused" in the manner that so many children who end up in hospitals because of their parents are: but that Casey learned to use physical violence when she was mad, from Cindy.
Cindy choked Casey and so Casey had enough rage inside her to hurt Caylee.
"I'm just saying that murder vents rage. Rage is not reason. The murders were without reason. Don't try to understand murder with reason."
~Gary Gilmore, convicted murderer.
That is a quote from "Without Conscience": link provided by The World According...
http://books.google.com/books?id=5E22N1_7MnUC&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=duping+delight-+Dr.+Robert+Hare&source=bl&ots=0oL8pNGtsu&sig=ThsR4E9g7NghRtPBMhGWSt_5dWo&hl=en&ei=w3J5S_rYOs2ztgf9t42bCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CAoQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false
ETA: Also. The video where Casey has Caylee on the floor and is rough-housing with her and then the video where Cindy and Casey are smashing cake on each other and Caylee tries to put cake on Casey: I hate how quickly Casey's hand goes up to stop Caylee. I would have let a baby put the cake on my face before I would have grabbed her arm like that to stop her. I think Casey treated Caylee like a rough play thing and when she was done she threw her play thing away. (Sorry Caylee Baby)
:cow:
Just Jayla
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RG: Well Lee had told Jesse uhm, was that, that fight the night before had escalated to the point that ah, Cindy had wrapped her hands around Casey's throat and was trying to strangle her.
LE: Okay, Lee told this to Jesse?
RG: Jesse, right.
I don't think Jesse would lie. And I don't know what good it would do for Lee to make up a story about Cindy "wrapping her hands around Casey's throat and trying to strangle her."
I think that happened. And, imho...you don't just start being a physically punishing person in a day. What I mean is, Cindy had to have been a hitter, smacker...I don't want to say that Casey was "physically abused" in the manner that so many children who end up in hospitals because of their parents are: but that Casey learned to use physical violence when she was mad, from Cindy.
Cindy choked Casey and so Casey had enough rage inside her to hurt Caylee.
"I'm just saying that murder vents rage. Rage is not reason. The murders were without reason. Don't try to understand murder with reason."
~Gary Gilmore, convicted murderer.
That is a quote from "Without Conscience": link provided by The World According...
http://books.google.com/books?id=5E22N1_7MnUC&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=duping+delight-+Dr.+Robert+Hare&source=bl&ots=0oL8pNGtsu&sig=ThsR4E9g7NghRtPBMhGWSt_5dWo&hl=en&ei=w3J5S_rYOs2ztgf9t42bCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CAoQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false
ETA: Also. The video where Casey has Caylee on the floor and is rough-housing with her and then the video where Cindy and Casey are smashing cake on each other and Caylee tries to put cake on Casey: I hate how quickly Casey's hand goes up to stop Caylee. I would have let a baby put the cake on my face before I would have grabbed her arm like that to stop her. I think Casey treated Caylee like a rough play thing and when she was done she threw her play thing away. (Sorry Caylee Baby)
:cow:
BBM-JG said to take that story witha grain of salt, because he thought LA might be testing his loyalty (seeing if JG was going to run to media or LE with that story), but I don't see why LA would make up a story like that just to test JG...It is the kind of thing that makes KC look bad, it would be an extremely poor choice of ways to "test" JG.
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Bumping Up.
PassTheMotrin
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Is this the one we've already seen? I just read through it and I'm not seeing anything we didn't already know. :waitasec:
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