2009.02.18 Document Release

[JWG]

Last night I was thinking about July 15 when George and Cindy picked up the Pontiac from the towing yard and when either of them would have had time to clean the trunk. I think we established pretty early on George had no time to do any cleaning. He went to work as soon as he got back to the home and did not return home until after Cindy had dragged KC away from Tony.

Cindy herself went back to Gentiva almost as soon as George left. This is confirmed through interviews with co-workers, all of whom had to practically push Cindy out of the building to send her home so that she could take care of her personal business - finding the two girls. Cindy really had little or no time to do much beyond grabbing KC's stuff from the interior of the car, throwing a couple items in the wash, and going through KC's papers to find Amy's resume.

Still, I can understand why, from the 2/18 document dump, LE seized a shop vac, vacuum cleaners, and a steam cleaner. Just to make sure - although its a wonder why they were not seized in July. :doh: These items were submitted to the FBI lab on December 13, but we have yet to see reports back on what - if anything - they found. Perhaps they found something, but who knows...I kind of doubt they hold the smoking gun.

However, I think one of the bullets for a smoking gun was seized in that search. Recall that there were four items taken from the screened porch:

One plastic/cloth vinyl turquoise tablecloth-with unknown stain
One plastic vinyl tuquoise seat cushion-with unknown stain
One vinyl tan furniture cover-with unknown stain
One seafoam/cream rug-with unknown stain
​

If the Anthony home is like mine, given they had a small child, there were probably a number of items throughout the home that had "unknown" stains, :yuck: so it is interesting that the only such items were all taken from the screened porch. :whistle:

What is even more interesting to me is that only one of those items - the seafoam/cream rug - was submitted to the FBI lab, and this was done on January 13, a full month after the search.

Could it be that, on the 18th after KC backed the car into the garage, she carried Caylee's body to the backyard through the house and out the screened porch? :waitasec: When she got to the outside door of the porch, it was locked / latched, and she had to put the body down to open the door...leaving a stain on the rug?

 

[karenmamo]

Last night I was thinking about July 15 when George and Cindy picked up the Pontiac from the towing yard and when either of them would have had time to clean the trunk. I think we established pretty early on George had no time to do any cleaning. He went to work as soon as he got back to the home and did not return home until after Cindy had dragged KC away from Tony.

Cindy herself went back to Gentiva almost as soon as George left. This is confirmed through interviews with co-workers, all of whom had to practically push Cindy out of the building to send her home so that she could take care of her personal business - finding the two girls. Cindy really had little or no time to do much beyond grabbing KC's stuff from the interior of the car, throwing a couple items in the wash, and going through KC's papers to find Amy's resume.

Still, I can understand why, from the 2/18 document dump, LE sieved a shop vac, vacuum cleaners, and a steam cleaner. Just to make sure - although its a wonder why they were not seized in July. :doh: These items were submitted to the FBI lab on December 13, but we have yet to see reports back on what - if anything - they found. Perhaps they found something, but who knows...I kind of doubt they hold the smoking gun.

However, I think one of the bullets for a smoking gun was seized in that search. Recall that there were four items taken from the screened porch:

One plastic/cloth vinyl turquoise tablecloth-with unknown stain
One plastic vinyl tuquoise seat cushion-with unknown stain
One vinyl tan furniture cover-with unknown stain
One seafoam/cream rug-with unknown stain
​

If the Anthony home is like mine, given they had a small child, there were probably a number of items throughout the home that had "unknown" stains, :yuck: so it is interesting that the only such items were all taken from the screened porch. :whistle:

What is even more interesting to me is that only one of those items - the seafoam/cream rug - was submitted to the FBI lab, and this was done on January 13, a full month after the search.

Could it be that, on the 18th after KC backed the car into the garage, she carried Caylee's body to the backyard through the house and out the screened porch? :waitasec: When she got to the outside door of the porch, it was locked / latched, and she had to put the body down to open the door...leaving a stain on the rug?

You never cease to amaze me!

 

[What'sThatClue]

Last night I was thinking about July 15 when George and Cindy picked up the Pontiac from the towing yard and when either of them would have had time to clean the trunk. I think we established pretty early on George had no time to do any cleaning. He went to work as soon as he got back to the home and did not return home until after Cindy had dragged KC away from Tony.

Cindy herself went back to Gentiva almost as soon as George left. This is confirmed through interviews with co-workers, all of whom had to practically push Cindy out of the building to send her home so that she could take care of her personal business - finding the two girls. Cindy really had little or no time to do much beyond grabbing KC's stuff from the interior of the car, throwing a couple items in the wash, and going through KC's papers to find Amy's resume.

Still, I can understand why, from the 2/18 document dump, LE sieved a shop vac, vacuum cleaners, and a steam cleaner. Just to make sure - although its a wonder why they were not seized in July. :doh: These items were submitted to the FBI lab on December 13, but we have yet to see reports back on what - if anything - they found. Perhaps they found something, but who knows...I kind of doubt they hold the smoking gun.

However, I think one of the bullets for a smoking gun was seized in that search. Recall that there were four items taken from the screened porch:

One plastic/cloth vinyl turquoise tablecloth-with unknown stain
One plastic vinyl tuquoise seat cushion-with unknown stain
One vinyl tan furniture cover-with unknown stain
One seafoam/cream rug-with unknown stain
​

If the Anthony home is like mine, given they had a small child, there were probably a number of items throughout the home that had "unknown" stains, :yuck: so it is interesting that the only such items were all taken from the screened porch. :whistle:

What is even more interesting to me is that only one of those items - the seafoam/cream rug - was submitted to the FBI lab, and this was done on January 13, a full month after the search.

Could it be that, on the 18th after KC backed the car into the garage, she carried Caylee's body to the backyard through the house and out the screened porch? :waitasec: When she got to the outside door of the porch, it was locked / latched, and she had to put the body down to open the door...leaving a stain on the rug?

But wouldn't the cadaver dogs have hit on it? Unless, of course, they weren't allowed in the screen room...

 

[JWG]

But wouldn't the cadaver dogs have hit on it? Unless, of course, they weren't allowed in the screen room...

AFAIK, they were never inside the home, but yes, if they were in the home one would expect them to hit there.

 

[cecybeans]

Didn't GA have more time at home than that? CA got back to work at something like 2:30 or 3:00 and GA did not clock in until 5:30 IIRC. If she returned home between 4 and 4:30 (say she spent an hour there), wouldn't that have given GA at least an hour or so home alone with the Pontiac? Did I miss something?

 

[BostonSu]

It says '08 right on the page facing her diary entry. It's from last year.

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/18740442/detail.html picture 15

ETA: link

Actually, it says '03. That doesn't mean she actually wrote it then, but that's what it says,

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Is there a heart thread?

These look like the sticker - but I noticed they are a little differently shaped. I'm going to keep looking. In the doc dump I noticed Casey scrapbooked. I have a lot of that stuff. Most of it is sold at Target. I recognized it - Marcella by K etc. I also noticed lots of hearts everywhere lol. Hello Kitty has a lot of hearts. Will they be able to find the brand of sticker?
http://images.google.com/imgres?img...p=21&um=1&hl=en&rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS308US308&sa=N

Here's some more of those shiny/gel looking hearts - again when I found this it's for "blinging" your cell phone or other items
http://cgi.ebay.com.my/Red-3D-Heart...temQQptZPDA_Accessories?hash=item290293166711

If you go to this sellers link there is a box full of other stickers, lots of red heart stickers that look like the one that was found.
Link:http://cgi.ebay.com.my/ws/eBayISAPI...o=CRX&its=S%2BI%2BSS&itu=ISS%2BUCI%2BSI&otn=1

I recall Casey saying she had went to a cell phone store near by. Maybe they sell the stickers there. Has anyone found out the location of the cell phone store Casey spoke of?

 

[kageykaren]

Didn't GA have more time at home than that? CA got back to work at something like 2:30 or 3:00 and GA did not clock in until 5:30 IIRC. If she returned home between 4 and 4:30 (say she spent an hour there), wouldn't that have given GA at least an hour or so home alone with the Pontiac? Did I miss something?

We can asertain that on the day of the car being towed, CA was pissy already do to cost of storage, GA is freaked out by the smell to the point of vommitting and stated he was feeling fearful which shows great CONCERNS over why the car stunk, LA arrives to parents home obsevers the car with doors open to air out and remarks with a nervous giggle about the smell, CA in hyper mode to wash clothes before returning to work, GA has a window of opportunity to clean the car obviously because the car was airing out when LA arrived. If GA was going to get to work on time he may have had LA take over the cleaning. I know personally LE would have smelled that car a mile away if decomp in car had not been cleaned up. LE stated someone adept at cleaning worked on that car and GA was also told by LE that he knew alot about alot of things. It has to be one of three or they shared in the cleaning. It seems to me at least CA & GA wanted everything to appear to be another normal day and made sure that they followed there normal routine on a not so normal day, leaving LA to clean the car. Does anyone know about lA's obligations for the day and what time he may have left the A's if in fact he did. Was LA told by mother to stay at the home until she located Kc and brought her home? LA it appears had more time to play a car detailer than his parents.

 

[cecybeans]

We can asertain that on the day of the car being towed, CA was pissy already do to cost of storage, GA is freaked out by the smell to the point of vommitting and stated he was feeling fearful which shows great CONCERNS over why the car stunk, LA arrives to parents home obsevers the car with doors open to air out and remarks with a nervous giggle about the smell, CA in hyper mode to wash clothes before returning to work, GA has a window of opportunity to clean the car obviously because the car was airing out when LA arrived. If GA was going to get to work on time he may have had LA take over the cleaning. I know personally LE would have smelled that car a mile away if decomp in car had not been cleaned up. LE stated someone adept at cleaning worked on that car and GA was also told by LE that he knew alot about alot of things. It has to be one of three or they shared in the cleaning. It seems to me at least CA & GA wanted everything to appear to be another normal day and made sure that they followed there normal routine on a not so normal day, leaving LA to clean the car. Does anyone know about lA's obligations for the day and what time he may have left the A's if in fact he did. Was LA told by mother to stay at the home until she located Kc and brought her home? LA it appears had more time to play a car detailer than his parents.

Although LA says in his interview he arrived at the home minutes before KC and her mother, we certainly cannot assume that is true. That is also corroborated by GA in which he states he calls LA and asks him to go home after getting a call from CA. Given the entire family's penchant for "mis-truths" and "half-truths" just about anything is possible. Although GA may have done most of the work (being the self-described detailer in the family) just to give LA deniability. I am not sure LA would have laughed the way he did if he had had to get up close and personal with that trunk.

 

[JWG]

Didn't GA have more time at home than that? CA got back to work at something like 2:30 or 3:00 and GA did not clock in until 5:30 IIRC. If she returned home between 4 and 4:30 (say she spent an hour there), wouldn't that have given GA at least an hour or so home alone with the Pontiac? Did I miss something?

Naw, you did not miss anything. I think the confusion comes from a pair of posts Bond and I wrote that were never assembled into one piece. :bang:

Bond's original post is [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3001900&postcount=127"]here[/ame] and nicely establishes a timeline for the July 15. :clap:

Later, prompted by some questions IWantToHelp was posing, I took a closer look at the epass records, maps of the toll system in Orlando linked by IWTH :thumb:, and one of George's statements that said some things about his job. I posted that [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3121879&postcount=20"]here[/ame].

What I determined was that the toll records showed him driving westbound from his home to his employer's offices just after dropping the car off at the Anthony home. Originally it was thought he had been driving eastbound from the tow yard to the home (or rather, Cindy was driving his vehicle). But, the tow yard is close to the Anthony's and the shortest distance to their home is straight up Narcoosee.

The thing that was confusing about George's job is that he went to the offices, and then a couple hours later drove from there to his assignment at the movie theatre. :slap:

It would probably be worthwhile for either Bond or I to merge the two timelimes together into one coherent story so as to avoid confusion. I think the problem is one of us likes to tell (tall tale) stories, and the other is not coherent.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

From slideshow of items: http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/18739950/detail.html
Pic #38. The yellow case. Anyone know what that could be?

Pic #33 of Caylee's crib. It looks like the mattress is missing.
http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/18740442/detail.html




Here you can see where the stickers would of came from IMO. Pic #73. look at those stickers compared to the one found at the crime scene.
Link: http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/18740442/detail.html

 

[kageykaren]

From slideshow of items: http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/18739950/detail.html
Pic #38. The yellow case. Anyone know what that could be?

Pic #33 of Caylee's crib. It looks like the mattress is missing.
http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/18740442/detail.html




Here you can see where the stickers would of came from IMO. Pic #73. look at those stickers compared to the one found at the crime scene.
Link: http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/18740442/detail.html

Looks like a socket rinch case, but don't quote me.

 

[faefrost]

We can asertain that on the day of the car being towed, CA was pissy already do to cost of storage, GA is freaked out by the smell to the point of vommitting and stated he was feeling fearful which shows great CONCERNS over why the car stunk, LA arrives to parents home obsevers the car with doors open to air out and remarks with a nervous giggle about the smell, CA in hyper mode to wash clothes before returning to work, GA has a window of opportunity to clean the car obviously because the car was airing out when LA arrived. If GA was going to get to work on time he may have had LA take over the cleaning. I know personally LE would have smelled that car a mile away if decomp in car had not been cleaned up. LE stated someone adept at cleaning worked on that car and GA was also told by LE that he knew alot about alot of things. It has to be one of three or they shared in the cleaning. It seems to me at least CA & GA wanted everything to appear to be another normal day and made sure that they followed there normal routine on a not so normal day, leaving LA to clean the car. Does anyone know about lA's obligations for the day and what time he may have left the A's if in fact he did. Was LA told by mother to stay at the home until she located Kc and brought her home? LA it appears had more time to play a car detailer than his parents.

Don't particularly want to accuse anyone of anything. But lets not forget when thinking about the car, GA was both a LE Homicide investigator and he operated a used car business. It is safe to assume he is quite skilled in cleaning cars, and he knows exactly what to clean.

Of course the simple fact that the car was not cleaned more thoroughly then it was is a pretty good indication that the A's did not have alot of hands on time with it.

Part of me still suspects that the strong presense of chloroform in the trunk was someones attempt to clean the signs of biological materials and the smell from the vehicle. Somebody probably saw a CSI episode where chloroform is used as a solvent in DNA testing and thought that it would destroy any DNA evidence from the vehicle. Not realizing that chloroform is used as a testing solvent precisely because it will not destroy said DNA.

 

[cecybeans]

Naw, you did not miss anything. I think the confusion comes from a pair of posts Bond and I wrote that were never assembled into one piece. :bang:

Bond's original post is here and nicely establishes a timeline for the July 15. :clap:

Later, prompted by some questions IWantToHelp was posing, I took a closer look at the epass records, maps of the toll system in Orlando linked by IWTH :thumb:, and one of George's statements that said some things about his job. I posted that here.

What I determined was that the toll records showed him driving westbound from his home to his employer's offices just after dropping the car off at the Anthony home. Originally it was thought he had been driving eastbound from the tow yard to the home (or rather, Cindy was driving his vehicle). But, the tow yard is close to the Anthony's and the shortest distance to their home is straight up Narcoosee.

The thing that was confusing about George's job is that he went to the offices, and then a couple hours later drove from there to his assignment at the movie theatre. :slap:

It would probably be worthwhile for either Bond or I to merge the two timelimes together into one coherent story so as to avoid confusion. I think the problem is one of us likes to tell (tall tale) stories, and the other is not coherent.

Excellent work (as usual). I only have one question - GA obviously knew the car was a crime scene when he picked it up. He later makes reference to LE about how EZ Pass records would establish the car chase date. So it seems to me he knows the value of EZ Pass in establishing an alibi timeline.

While it's true he may have been at Andrews admin offices the entire time before reporting to the work site at Fashion Square Mall cinema, is it at all possible that he returned home using a back route that would not leave a trace, then returned to Andrews using the same route and subsequently left for the mall so that it would appear he was at Andrews the entire time? Would LE have verified he spent the entire two hours at Andrews? If he slipped home even for an hour, he could have accomplished a lot, imo.

 

[princess]

From slideshow of items: http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/18739950/detail.html
Pic #38. The yellow case. Anyone know what that could be?

Pic #33 of Caylee's crib. It looks like the mattress is missing.
http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/18740442/detail.html




Here you can see where the stickers would of came from IMO. Pic #73. look at those stickers compared to the one found at the crime scene.
Link: http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/18740442/detail.html

The mattress is right there in the pic, it is just that the crib was converted to the toddler bed feature. The so call bed rail makes it look like that, my sons looks exactly the same. ( :

 

[kageykaren]

Faefrost I totally agree. Like many others who have a passion for a certain line of work and attain that dream you educate yourself in all aspects of that job in order to be the best at what you do. GA acquired the job he was passionate about, and obviously did well to be promoted to detective. That part of his personality doesn't just turn off upon leaving that employment of ten years. The passion stays with you, and before you know it, when your placed in similar circumstances as the job you were passionate about kicks right back in like it is yesterday. The only thing I can think of as to why some of the items in the car were not removed while others were removved is that gA knew the attendant at the car impound saw some of the items. This is the same attendant who had his hinky meter up and went back to climb in dumpster to retrieve the pizza garbage bag. Now you mention cleaning with solvents. W/S has those threads about chemicals and many think the high concentrations of chlorophorm were from just that cleaning of a stain that required more than 401 or lysol. If LE confiscated a bottle of chlorophorm used for cleaning at the A's would that have been showed in discovery or could this be an item currently at FbI headquarters. I haven't wanted to bring this up for many months for fear of being looked at like a looney tune (not quite ready for Animaniacs yet) The very first video of the A house showing the inside of the garage, while crime scene investigators were there checking gA car I remember seeing a bottle of chlorophorm on the shelf above washer and dryer. Easily accsessable. I paid no mind to it because chlorophorm had not been mentioned at that juncture. Not long after I heard LP state with his boldness something to the effect that CA used a solvent to clean the car. Are these early videos of July 16 or 17 just gone, disappearing into thin air? Set me straight if you find that video because I'm alittle concerned about my sometimers! LOL

 

[Leila]

Last night I was thinking about July 15 when George and Cindy picked up the Pontiac from the towing yard and when either of them would have had time to clean the trunk. I think we established pretty early on George had no time to do any cleaning. He went to work as soon as he got back to the home and did not return home until after Cindy had dragged KC away from Tony.

Cindy herself went back to Gentiva almost as soon as George left. This is confirmed through interviews with co-workers, all of whom had to practically push Cindy out of the building to send her home so that she could take care of her personal business - finding the two girls. Cindy really had little or no time to do much beyond grabbing KC's stuff from the interior of the car, throwing a couple items in the wash, and going through KC's papers to find Amy's resume.

Still, I can understand why, from the 2/18 document dump, LE seized a shop vac, vacuum cleaners, and a steam cleaner. Just to make sure - although its a wonder why they were not seized in July. :doh: These items were submitted to the FBI lab on December 13, but we have yet to see reports back on what - if anything - they found. Perhaps they found something, but who knows...I kind of doubt they hold the smoking gun.

However, I think one of the bullets for a smoking gun was seized in that search. Recall that there were four items taken from the screened porch:

One plastic/cloth vinyl turquoise tablecloth-with unknown stain
One plastic vinyl tuquoise seat cushion-with unknown stain
One vinyl tan furniture cover-with unknown stain
One seafoam/cream rug-with unknown stain
​

If the Anthony home is like mine, given they had a small child, there were probably a number of items throughout the home that had "unknown" stains, :yuck: so it is interesting that the only such items were all taken from the screened porch. :whistle:

What is even more interesting to me is that only one of those items - the seafoam/cream rug - was submitted to the FBI lab, and this was done on January 13, a full month after the search.

Could it be that, on the 18th after KC backed the car into the garage, she carried Caylee's body to the backyard through the house and out the screened porch? :waitasec: When she got to the outside door of the porch, it was locked / latched, and she had to put the body down to open the door...leaving a stain on the rug?

That make a whole lot of sense! I think we can assume that the four items were first tested locally, and with three of those items, the unknown stains were identified and found to be of no forensic interest - food or pet stains. But the mere fact that one item was sent on to the FBI lab, I would assume that something of forensic value was found.

 

[ecs5298]

From slideshow of items: http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/18739950/detail.html
Pic #38. The yellow case. Anyone know what that could be?

Pic #33 of Caylee's crib. It looks like the mattress is missing.
http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/18740442/detail.html




Here you can see where the stickers would of came from IMO. Pic #73. look at those stickers compared to the one found at the crime scene.
Link: http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/18740442/detail.html

THe yellow plastic case is from a Topcon RL60B rotating laser level. The thing sits on a tripod and projects a laser line around the room. Useful for many things. I believe the box they found was empty.

 

[maryaok]

I'm looking at the photos again in Casey's room. I never knew someone so obsessed with photos as Casey. I love both my boys and am very artistic and creative and have a whole room full of home Pc photo equipment, and I don't have one single photo of either of my boys in my bedroom. I have some photos in an album and a couple framed around the house, but, nothing like this.

I wish someone with a psych degree could explain her obsession. If she's narcisistic, wouldn't all the photos be of herself? I mean granted, there are alot of her, certainly, but there seems to be so much focus on Caylee in that room. I just don't understand her. I find myself stuck between being so incredibly angry and disgusted by her to feeling incredibly pittyfully sorry for her and her child.

 

[Chat Noir]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if CA put those pictures up after the fact for the t.v. cameras....and for some reason KC did not want to go in her room when she was bailed out of jail the first time - hmmmm:waitasec: