2009.04.06 Document Release: 2008.07.23 Cindy Phone Message for Sgt. John Allen

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I found two statements in this message to be odd. The first already discussed (Casey had to have had help) really struck me. The second was this:

I'd like to talk to you guys about it.....So in the presence of Lee or one on one with me or with George or whatever, I think we need to clear the air on some things...

To me it's strange that the first option on her list is Lee and Cindy meet with LE. Second is Cindy herself, third is "or with George" and then she throws in "or whatever".
Why did she include Lee before George? Where are her priorities?

Maybe she thinks LE likes Lee the best or maybe she thinks that Lee is better at helping her spin the situation than George is. Lee is probably more familiar with Casey's friends than George.
 
Cindy said Casey had to have help.
I listened 3 times and that's what I heard. She goes on to say, "There are people that
know information".
IIRC...this also isn't that new of a revelation...somewhere early on I remember her spouting something to this effect...but it's been way too long to remember where or when.
 
I can't stand this woman! She's "bent over backwards" to help LE? In what parallel universe? LE is "wasting time pointing the finger at Casey"? Gak. No wonder folks hate her. She comes off as bossy, demanding, rigid and manipulative. She wouldn't have cared WHO they arrested as long as it wasn't her precious daughter.
What I find amazing is this is the same woman who had to be TOLD to leave work and GO FIND her daughter and granddaughter after 31 days.

PS- I understand she was frantic with worry at this point...that all her "worst possible" scenarios were becoming her reality...but LE was the key to finding Caylee at this point...not her daughter.
 
How would any of us sound if our grandchild was missing? Her phone message seems reasonable to me for the terrified grandmother of a missing child. She wanted to know whose apartment it was in this picture that had been described to her as Zannie's apartment and was hoping LE could find out. I think the A's knew from the beginning that KC either could not or would not be forthcoming, whichever the case may be, and that's why they were so dependent on LE to find out the truth and find Caylee. I really can't fault the A's at all.
She said she had bent over backward trying to help LE (consider for example, the hours spent in interviews with LE trying to compile a timeline, and that's only the tip of the iceberg. She and the rest of the family had probably had virtually no sleep in these first weeks.) She must have been upset and very concerned when one member of LE subsequently claimed that she was being uncooperative and had threatened to send a squad car over to pick her up if she didn't do this or that.... I think the Anthony family were probably very concerned at what appeared to be some of LE's (certainly not everyone but at least one person there) seeming tunnel vision on KC while they understandably wanted LE to be focused on FINDING CAYLEE, regardless what was going on with KC or what her problem was. I could understand their desperation totally. What parent/grandparent would not expect LE to really look into everyone else who had been around KC and the child, it's a reasonable expectation. And I think that was exactly what CA was saying here. She's not ruling out KC's involvement in the disappearance but thinks someone KC and Caylee were with could be involved or know something that could possibly lead them to Caylee, basically that some friend or associate of KC's could have Caylee.
 
one tiny note in response to Cindy's supposed denial that KC was pregnant at RP's wedding. I've always thought it was probably more a case of it not being any of Rick P's business and her not wanting to acknowledge his rude, demeaning comments on the subject in front of everyone at the wedding, not that she wasn't actually aware that Casey was pregnant. My opinion only though.
 
I think in the beginning Lee was kind of a mediator between LE and Cindy.

I think so too, I think after her initial attempts to work with them, she and George became a little resigned and alienated and Lee was still actively trying to work with LE for a while. My impression at least.
 
I think she offered to meet with LE with Lee because they were already clearly tired of her. She thought she was being contrite, but it actually came across condescending.

I don't blame them all so much for trying to come up with any other possible scenario for what might have happened and thereby locating Caylee. I think they knew weeks before that something was wrong, but it's understandable that they fought the reality of it for a long time. If an animal runs away, you tend to hold out hope they will return, even when logic says they are gone. Ten thousand times magnify if it's a child missing. The problem I have is the attitude that the cops are wrong to be investigating what happened from the start.
 
How would any of us sound if our grandchild was missing? Her phone message seems reasonable to me for the terrified grandmother of a missing child. She wanted to know whose apartment it was in this picture that had been described to her as Zannie's apartment and was hoping LE could find out. I think the A's knew from the beginning that KC either could not or would not be forthcoming, whichever the case may be, and that's why they were so dependent on LE to find out the truth and find Caylee. I really can't fault the A's at all.
She said she had bent over backward trying to help LE (consider for example, the hours spent in interviews with LE trying to compile a timeline, and that's only the tip of the iceberg. She and the rest of the family had probably had virtually no sleep in these first weeks.) She must have been upset and very concerned when one member of LE subsequently claimed that she was being uncooperative and had threatened to send a squad car over to pick her up if she didn't do this or that.... I think the Anthony family were probably very concerned at what appeared to be some of LE's (certainly not everyone but at least one person there) seeming tunnel vision on KC while they understandably wanted LE to be focused on FINDING CAYLEE, regardless what was going on with KC or what her problem was. I could understand their desperation totally. What parent/grandparent would not expect LE to really look into everyone else who had been around KC and the child, it's a reasonable expectation. And I think that was exactly what CA was saying here. She's not ruling out KC's involvement in the disappearance but thinks someone KC and Caylee were with could be involved or know something that could possibly lead them to Caylee, basically that some friend or associate of KC's could have Caylee.

OCSO's 'seeming' tunnel vision on KC was because they KNEW at this point that KC was responsible for Caylee's disappearance. they were looking into 'everyone else' as evidenced by all the interview we have seen released. I am sure they told CA all this - if she listened to them. The detectives were concentrating on KC for a reason - they just didn't 'decide on a whim' that KC was responsible. CA was trying to throw anybody and everybody under the bus, and was upset because OCSO was not buying her 'theories'.

When any case is investigated and a 'prime suspect' is identified - that suspect is going to be the the person that is focused on. IF evidence comes up that exonerates that person, the detectives move on. IF all the evidence points to the prime suspect - they are going to continue to investigate that person. At no time, did the detecives stop looking around, stop invterviewing people, stop following up on tips and leads. THAT is obvious from all the supplemental reports that we have seen so far.

Basically, Detectives Allen and Melich interviewed numerous people between July 16th and July 23 or 24th when CA left that message. Guess what, the info given by every person they interviewed was followed up on and proven truthful. The ONLY interviews that when followed up on that were NOT proven true or had deceptions in them were the interviews with KC and her family!

As for 'one member of LE' threatening to send a squad car over - they were trying to get to the bottom of the disappearance (and death, as by that time they knew Caylee was dead) of a 2 year old child and CA couldn't be 'bothered' to come in again to go over a few things. If it was my granddaughter who was missing - I would have been camped out in front of the Sheriff's office just in case they needed to ask me another question - nothing else would have been more important than giving them every single iota of information that I could.

Sorry, CA does not garner any sympathy from me in this instance.
 
OCSO's 'seeming' tunnel vision on KC was because they KNEW at this point that KC was responsible for Caylee's disappearance. they were looking into 'everyone else' as evidenced by all the interview we have seen released. I am sure they told CA all this - if she listened to them. The detectives were concentrating on KC for a reason - they just didn't 'decide on a whim' that KC was responsible. CA was trying to throw anybody and everybody under the bus, and was upset because OCSO was not buying her 'theories'.

When any case is investigated and a 'prime suspect' is identified - that suspect is going to be the the person that is focused on. IF evidence comes up that exonerates that person, the detectives move on. IF all the evidence points to the prime suspect - they are going to continue to investigate that person. At no time, did the detecives stop looking around, stop invterviewing people, stop following up on tips and leads. THAT is obvious from all the supplemental reports that we have seen so far.

Basically, Detectives Allen and Melich interviewed numerous people between July 16th and July 23 or 24th when CA left that message. Guess what, the info given by every person they interviewed was followed up on and proven truthful. The ONLY interviews that when followed up on that were NOT proven true or had deceptions in them were the interviews with KC and her family!

As for 'one member of LE' threatening to send a squad car over - they were trying to get to the bottom of the disappearance (and death, as by that time they knew Caylee was dead) of a 2 year old child and CA couldn't be 'bothered' to come in again to go over a few things. If it was my granddaughter who was missing - I would have been camped out in front of the Sheriff's office just in case they needed to ask me another question - nothing else would have been more important than giving them every single iota of information that I could.

Sorry, CA does not garner any sympathy from me in this instance.


No sympathy for the grandmother of a missing child (later found to be murdered)? I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

Personally, I thought her behavior was better than most people's would be in the situation. Why should she have to apologize in any way to LE in this phone message, why should she have to pussyfoot around them? It's ridiculous.

CA is continually faulted both for bothering LE too much and not interacting with them enough. She can't win. (Faulted by some members of the public that is, not by LE themselves of course.) In fact she did try to be actively involved in the investigation and totally available for questions. Have you seen the interview where she's trying to tell everything she knows for the timeline, hoping the detectives can get to the bottom of what was really going on, and one detective keeps cutting her off? I like the detective by the way, a lot, and understand his line of thought in the situation, but I have a lot of sympathy for CA and can't fault her either.

Do you have substantiation for your comment that there was deception/lies in the interviews with CA or other members of KC's family? I've followed the case from the beginning and have not found any substantiation for this rumor. Cindy's phone message makes it clear why she had not yet returned the one particular bit of information in question to LE , she was not being uncooperative. She was cooperative with LE to the enth degree, despite her physical and emotional exhaustion at the time.

Do you have some substantiation for the comment that CA ever threw anyone "under the bus" as is so often rumored. I never saw a single accusation by CA. Surely every family of a missing child would expect for all the people who had been around the mother and child prior to the child's disappearance to be actually investigated (not just called up and asked for a statement, asked for their phone records from that month, or told prior to their phone being tapped that their phone was going to be tapped. That last thing is just laughable. The rest were obviously normal stages of info gathering, but can't be said to "clear" anyone.)
I'm not sure if I agree that it's usual for LE to identify one person of interest/suspect and not broaden the investigation to others unless that one person is exonerated by something. Most investigations seem to go the opposite way, starting out broad.
LE's interest in KCA was perfectly understandable, I'm not disputing that, but I always wished that the investigation had been broader, I felt that they put too much weight on her being able to tell them what had happened. But they were fielding a huge number of tips and leads of all kinds.
I have never said that LE acted on a whim by the way.
 
Do you have some substantiation for the comment that CA ever threw anyone "under the bus" as is so often rumored. I never saw CA accuse anyone. .
snipped
During her interview with OCSO she clearly said she believed Jesse had Caylee. The detectives said, no that was not correct, Cindy also stated to them during the same interview that Jesse had first hand knowledge about Caylee's whereabouts which we all know is False.
Now, if that isn't throwing someone under the bus/accusing them, what is?
 
why do the makers of these phone systems allow so much time for messages? :doh:
 
why do the makers of these phone systems allow so much time for messages? :doh:
lol...I bet she she filled up his entire voice mailbox each and every time she called and had to leave a voice mail.
 
No sympathy for the grandmother of a missing child (later found to be murdered)? I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

Personally, I thought her behavior was better than most people's would be in the situation. Why should she have to apologize in any way to LE in this phone message, why should she have to pussyfoot around them? It's ridiculous.

CA is continually faulted both for bothering LE too much and not interacting with them enough. She can't win. (Faulted by some members of the public that is, not by LE themselves of course.) In fact she did try to be actively involved in the investigation and totally available for questions. Have you seen the interview where she's trying to tell everything she knows for the timeline, hoping the detectives can get to the bottom of what was really going on, and one detective keeps cutting her off? I like the detective by the way, a lot, and understand his line of thought in the situation, but I have a lot of sympathy for CA and can't fault her either.

Do you have substantiation for your comment that there was deception/lies in the interviews with CA or other members of KC's family? I've followed the case from the beginning and have not found any substantiation for this rumor. Cindy's phone message makes it clear why she had not yet returned the one particular bit of information in question to LE , she was not being uncooperative. She was cooperative with LE to the enth degree, despite her physical and emotional exhaustion at the time.

Do you have some substantiation for the comment that CA ever threw anyone "under the bus" as is so often rumored. I never saw a single accusation by CA. Surely every family of a missing child would expect for all the people who had been around the mother and child prior to the child's disappearance to be actually investigated (not just called up and asked for a statement, asked for their phone records from that month, or told prior to their phone being tapped that their phone was going to be tapped. That last thing is just laughable. The rest were obviously normal stages of info gathering, but can't be said to "clear" anyone.)
I'm not sure if I agree that it's usual for LE to identify one person of interest/suspect and not broaden the investigation to others unless that one person is exonerated by something. Most investigations seem to go the opposite way, starting out broad.
LE's interest in KCA was perfectly understandable, I'm not disputing that, but I always wished that the investigation had been broader, I felt that they put too much weight on her being able to tell them what had happened. But they were fielding a huge number of tips and leads of all kinds.
I have never said that LE acted on a whim by the way.

I will try to answer each of your questions, but since it is late at night, please forgive any spelling errors - and I just hope I can make sense.

I never said I did not have ANY sympathy for CA. I said in 'this instance' she does not garner any sympathy from me. As a grandmother myself, the loss of a grandchild would be horrific - made even worse by the fact that my child was the one who murdered that grandchild. I have compassion for and feel great pity for both G & C, and I have stated that in a number of posts. My sympathy and compassion for both G & C is, however, draining away at a rapid pace leaving only pity as I watch them self destruct.

Your comment about her behavior being better than most people's would be in this situation has me scratching my head. Which situation? Do you mean her being upset that they spoke to her mother? Over all, CA's behavior has been, in my opinion, disruptive, bordering on obstructional and deceitful.

I have never faulted CA for 'bothering LE too much'. I have seen all her videos, including the one you talked about. Yes, she definitely worked with LE in that interview, I never said she didn't. I did say she was constantly throwing people under the bus in her interviews. Did she accuse anyone directly, no. Did she keep referring to Jesse and Amy as people she didn't trust and who might be who KC was referring to, when CA went with "The Nanny was whomever was watching Caylee at the time? Pointing out the picture of Caylee that was from 'Ricardo's apartment' and suggesting that he too might have watched Caylee. If I remember, she might have even done this in the same interview as she helped with the time line. You are going to point out that all she was doing was giving the detectives 'other leads' - so we will just have to disagree as to what each of us took away from that interview.

As to lies and deceptions, where to start, where to start? Both GA and CA deny the arguement that was overheard by the neighbors ever happened. GA gives at least 3 different versions of the gas can story. The 'chasing after KC story' - a couple of different versions of that one too from both G and C. Then of course, there is the smell in the car, pizza in the trunk incident. However, if you want, I will give you that one in that she didn't REALLY mean the car smelled like a dead body. Of course there was no pizza in the trunk either. Can we talk about the sworn depositions both GA and Ca just finished giving, or should I just stick to things that went on back in July and August?

I do have only more more comment and question for you. The detectives, after listening to KC lie through her teeth during the one interview they did with her (at Universal) were supposed to continue looking at other people, is that what you are saying? I guess I want to know why should they? She was the last person that can be proved to be with Caylee , according to GA's own testimony. Her car smells like a dead body, every single thing she told the detectives in that interview was a lie, and they proved that. So you have a missing child, a suspect who lies and lies and lies and the car she drives smells like a dead body - and you want the detectives to look at other people? they had most of this info by the time they interviewed her and the rest within the next 24 hours. KC narrowed their investigation down for them.

I appreciate that you understand the the large amounts of tips and leads they pursued during this investigation and I guess my problem is I can't understand why you wish their investigation had been broader. If KC had given them even ONE clue, ONE bit of info that was not a lie, I am sure they would have investigated it. She didn't and they made their decisions about who was responsible based on what she said and what they discovered.

I want you to know I enjoy your reasoned, well thought out questions and comments. We may disagree on just about everything :) but you always make me think and not just ramble on and on. Or at least I hope I didn't with this post!
 
Would you agree that this photo was taken at the same place as the one with her little blue dress. Sure looks like it to me. I'm no expert on drums, but my son has the X-Box "Rock Band" that has drums just like those in the photo.Caylee JP.jpg
 
How would any of us sound if our grandchild was missing? Her phone message seems reasonable to me for the terrified grandmother of a missing child. She wanted to know whose apartment it was in this picture that had been described to her as Zannie's apartment and was hoping LE could find out. I think the A's knew from the beginning that KC either could not or would not be forthcoming, whichever the case may be, and that's why they were so dependent on LE to find out the truth and find Caylee. I really can't fault the A's at all.
She said she had bent over backward trying to help LE (consider for example, the hours spent in interviews with LE trying to compile a timeline, and that's only the tip of the iceberg. She and the rest of the family had probably had virtually no sleep in these first weeks.) She must have been upset and very concerned when one member of LE subsequently claimed that she was being uncooperative and had threatened to send a squad car over to pick her up if she didn't do this or that.... I think the Anthony family were probably very concerned at what appeared to be some of LE's (certainly not everyone but at least one person there) seeming tunnel vision on KC while they understandably wanted LE to be focused on FINDING CAYLEE, regardless what was going on with KC or what her problem was. I could understand their desperation totally. What parent/grandparent would not expect LE to really look into everyone else who had been around KC and the child, it's a reasonable expectation. And I think that was exactly what CA was saying here. She's not ruling out KC's involvement in the disappearance but thinks someone KC and Caylee were with could be involved or know something that could possibly lead them to Caylee, basically that some friend or associate of KC's could have Caylee.

The A's especially CA have always and still have tried to blame someone else for what thier daughter did to thier granddaughter. They also get a lot of thier information from several forums out there. The truth is they never tried to look for thier granddaughter or helped anyone who wanted to try to find her (TM). I think when CA said that KC had to have had help she was starting to try to throw someone else under the bus. If CA was so concerned over who's apartment this was then why didn't she give LE the many phone numbers and addresses that she had for Zanny? Maybe because there wasn't any. I'm a grandmother too and my granddaughter was out our site for a few seconds in a store and I was in tears and almost lost it. I know the A's miss that baby but they have never acted like normal grieving grandparents because they immediately went into cover up mode for KC.
 
How would any of us sound if our grandchild was missing? Her phone message seems reasonable to me for the terrified grandmother of a missing child. She wanted to know whose apartment it was in this picture that had been described to her as Zannie's apartment and was hoping LE could find out. I think the A's knew from the beginning that KC either could not or would not be forthcoming, whichever the case may be, and that's why they were so dependent on LE to find out the truth and find Caylee. I really can't fault the A's at all.
She said she had bent over backward trying to help LE (consider for example, the hours spent in interviews with LE trying to compile a timeline, and that's only the tip of the iceberg. She and the rest of the family had probably had virtually no sleep in these first weeks.) She must have been upset and very concerned when one member of LE subsequently claimed that she was being uncooperative and had threatened to send a squad car over to pick her up if she didn't do this or that.... I think the Anthony family were probably very concerned at what appeared to be some of LE's (certainly not everyone but at least one person there) seeming tunnel vision on KC while they understandably wanted LE to be focused on FINDING CAYLEE, regardless what was going on with KC or what her problem was. I could understand their desperation totally. What parent/grandparent would not expect LE to really look into everyone else who had been around KC and the child, it's a reasonable expectation. And I think that was exactly what CA was saying here. She's not ruling out KC's involvement in the disappearance but thinks someone KC and Caylee were with could be involved or know something that could possibly lead them to Caylee, basically that some friend or associate of KC's could have Caylee.

Her tone did not sound like a terrified grandmother. She was mad at Yuri because he went to the nursing home. He had to investigate the date of her and Caylee's visit because of the video they found. She wanted to call her mother to straiten out the dates. Investigators don't work on someone's word. They need facts. They had to go to the nursing home. When Cindy found out they went, she SAID she would no longer cooperate.
 
Her tone did not sound like a terrified grandmother. She was mad at Yuri because he went to the nursing home. He had to investigate the date of her and Caylee's visit because of the video they found. She wanted to call her mother to straiten out the dates. Investigators don't work on someone's word. They need facts. They had to go to the nursing home. When Cindy found out they went, she SAID she would no longer cooperate.
I also wanted to add that detectives, LE and FBI know how to do investigations and don't need to get advice from the the grandparents on how to do thier job. What they need is full cooperation from the entire family so that they can help find thier granddaughter. I think in CA's phone call it shows that she was already trying to plant the seed to try to bait LE to suspect someone else. We all know that LE were doing a very good job looking into all possibilities.
 
Of course LE focused on KC because she lied from the get go. IF IF IF KC were completely innocent WHY would she have lied about working, about where she dropped Caylee, about conducting her own investigation, about talking to Caylee just that day, about who ZFG is (and her mother, sister, roommates, car, etc.)? Everything KC has told LE has turned out to be a lie so WHY would they not focus on her?
 

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