2009.06.19 FBI Decomposition Report

[SuziQ]

Below is a link to the thread about the little boy from Montana that is referred to in this report.

Montana Mom Puts Child's Body in Trunk
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70665&highlight=montana+car+trunk

 

[Amster]

Will we be getting the coroners report?

 

[Patty G]

Will we be getting the coroners report?

Coroner's Report: http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801498/detail.html

All reports are listed here:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85463"]2009.06.19 Today's Current News - ***NO DISCUSSIONS HERE PLEASE *** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


And separate threads have been started already for each report.

 

[NocturnalLady]

Not to venture too far OT to the FBI report...

Thinking the combination of (a) the high level of chloroform from the decomposition, and (b) the range of ADD now given may allow that the body was perhaps bagged immediately and the chloroform was sufficient enough to weaken the plastic to the point it breached & leaked sometime during the period the body was in the trunk incl. up to the time of disposal.

This scenario would suggest taping as less likely to be a post-mortem event :cry: IOW...no need to stem decomp if Casey thought it was already contained in the plastic bags. It would also be consistent w/ Casey handling the body less vs. more post-mortem.

Great thought!

Also if Caylee was bagged immediately after death, with a duct taped mouth and put into that hot trunk - maybe the gasses associated with decomp blew up the trashbag like a balloon and eventually popped it. That would certainly make a mess and lead to the need for adding the laundry bag for the final disposal at the dump site.

(I keep apologizing for being so graphic but I can't see any other way to discuss this except in a straight forward manner.)

 

[BondJamesBond]

Just wanted to note where I got this, because it is not explicitly pointed out in the report. Reviewing this excerpt from page 6555:

View attachment 4172

The amount of chloroform found in the trunk was measured in the low parts per million range, where as normal human decomposition is low parts per trillion range. One trillion is one million million.

*snipped*

Reading now that the control referenced in making that statement was, "Typical concentrations seen during human decompositional events of adults yields amounts in the low parts per trillion range."

So...be careful here...:nono:...the control isn't a HDE in an enclosed trunk - that would tend to increase concentration levels - as compared to an HDE control in an unenclosed area.

 

[JWG]

Not to venture too far OT to the FBI report...

Thinking the combination of (a) the high level of chloroform from the decomposition, and (b) the range of ADD now given may allow that the body was perhaps bagged immediately and the chloroform was sufficient enough to weaken the plastic to the point it breached & leaked sometime during the period the body was in the trunk incl. up to the time of disposal.

This scenario would suggest taping as less likely to be a post-mortem event :cry: IOW...no need to stem decomp if Casey thought it was already contained in the plastic bags. It would also be consistent w/ Casey handling the body less vs. more post-mortem.

I'll venture a little OT with you...

I've wondered why the blanket with Caylee but nothing else...momma, nothing.

Could be she soaked a part of the WTP blanket with chloroform and gave it to Caylee while she was napping or before putting her down for a "nap". Once she ensured Caylee was out, she covered her mouth and nose with duct tape to do the actual killing. Took all of 4 or 5 minutes, at most. :cry: Then she put the body and blanket into the bags. The soaked portion of the blanket could have eaten away at the plastic bags it came in contact with, as well as the plastic liner of the laundry bag.

Actually makes sense to me, having her in the laundry bag from the beginning. As far as we know she did not back into the garage on the 16th, so she had to get the body into the trunk without fear of being noticed. Putting a laundry bag in the trunk would not look unusual. :shakehead:

 

[NocturnalLady]

*snipped*

Reading now that the control referenced in making that statement was, "Typical concentrations seen during human decompositional events of adults yields amounts in the low parts per trillion range."

So...be careful here...:nono:...the control isn't a HDE in an enclosed trunk - that would tend to increase concentration levels - as compared to an HDE control in an unenclosed area.

I agree. The chloroform is the possible red herring in all of this. I think it's entirely possible that Casey googled chloroform because she saw the post on RM's MySpace(?) and was curious about it. Found out through her searches that it can be used as a sex "aid" and then googled how to make it - thinking if it was easy then she could maybe have a new fun thing to do.

The chloroform in the trunk may just be a result of concentrated human decomp and a mixture of cleaning supplies that combine to make chloroform used on a carpet that already had chloroform in it as part of it's natural materials.

There's just no proof Casey ever made it, or used it on herself or Caylee. I have a hard time seeing Casey being able to make chloroform without making a huge mess or gassing herself in the process.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Page 6557.

Prepare to hear the defense claim that the paper towels were used to clean up grease from bacon, ham, etc. as the report indicates the composition of the 'grave wax' is consistent with human and pig decomposition studies.

Anyone remember MF's 'ham sandwich' comments?

 

[ClockWatcher]

Page 6557.

Prepare to hear the defense claim that the paper towels were used to clean up grease from bacon, ham, etc. as the report indicates the composition of the 'grave wax' is consistent with human and pig decomposition studies.

Anyone remember MF's 'ham sandwich' comments?

lol....MF? My mind is in the gutter. Did you mean Mark F from the OJ case?

 

[SuziQ]

Page 6557.

Prepare to hear the defense claim that the paper towels were used to clean up grease from bacon, ham, etc. as the report indicates the composition of the 'grave wax' is consistent with human and pig decomposition studies.

Anyone remember MF's 'ham sandwich' comments?

Aye aye aye....

 

[Elley Mae]

I agree. The chloroform is the possible red herring in all of this. I think it's entirely possible that Casey googled chloroform because she saw the post on RM's MySpace(?) and was curious about it. Found out through her searches that it can be used as a sex "aid" and then googled how to make it - thinking if it was easy then she could maybe have a new fun thing to do.

The chloroform in the trunk may just be a result of concentrated human decomp and a mixture of cleaning supplies that combine to make chloroform used on a carpet that already had chloroform in it as part of it's natural materials.

There's just no proof Casey ever made it, or used it on herself or Caylee. I have a hard time seeing Casey being able to make chloroform without making a huge mess or gassing herself in the process.

Well after seeing many pics and mugshots or ppl that got busted "making Meth" I wouldn't put anything past Casey

 

[JWG]

*snipped*

Reading now that the control referenced in making that statement was, "Typical concentrations seen during human decompositional events of adults yields amounts in the low parts per trillion range."

So...be careful here...:nono:...the control isn't a HDE in an enclosed trunk - that would tend to increase concentration levels - as compared to an HDE control in an unenclosed area.

:slap: I needed that.

It would be good to know what concentration level they would have expected to find in an enclosed trunk, adjusted for body size. Unfortunately, the report is the final report.

 

[Bittiness39]

Page 6557.

Prepare to hear the defense claim that the paper towels were used to clean up grease from bacon, ham, etc. as the report indicates the composition of the 'grave wax' is consistent with human and pig decomposition studies.

Anyone remember MF's 'ham sandwich' comments?

I am awaiting their explanation with much impatience. I can't wait to hear what "really real true" stuff they can tell us. That must have been some sandwich that leaked all over the place. Ofcourse, I am not ruling out that KC could have put her live pet pig in the trunk...
Sorry for the sarcastic humor.
Their goose is cooked.
What I am trying to understand is leaving the trash in the trunk along with the decomp-ridden paper towels...was she too lazy to throw them out. Was she hoping that Tony's garbage sack would camoflage the decomp smell? If so, why didn't she throw out the decomp paper towels? Or is it just that she is such a spur of the moment kinda gal that she just ran out of gas and just didn't care?

 

[BondJamesBond]

It also says that they found acetic acid in the tire well and that in an acidic environment (which they say the tire well was) acetic acid is a by-product of making chloroform by mixing acetone and chlorine.

Interesting that they chose to write it in that manner.

IMHO, it seems plausible for the acetic acid to have been formed by the potential use of acetone as a cleaning agent in the presence of the chlorine/chloroform. I need to do a little research on that one though.

 

[ecs5298]

Page 6557.

Prepare to hear the defense claim that the paper towels were used to clean up grease from bacon, ham, etc. as the report indicates the composition of the 'grave wax' is consistent with human and pig decomposition studies.

Anyone remember MF's 'ham sandwich' comments?

That's the first thing I thought of when I read that was that the defense will try and say that she had a decomposing ham in the trunk. Maybe there was ham on the pizza?

Either way that they try and spin it, it ain't gonna work!

The attention to detail of the investigators is astounding! They've gone the extra mile to make sure that the defense has no port in the storm.

 

[BondJamesBond]

lol....MF? My mind is in the gutter. Did you mean Mark F from the OJ case?

:rotfl: Yes...Mark filed a report w/ Greta babbling on that the case was gonna hinge on whether or not there was a ham sandwich or a package of ham in the trunk. At the time it was just 'out there'.

 

[JWG]

Interesting that they chose to write it in that manner.

IMHO, it seems plausible for the acetic acid to have been formed by the potential use of acetone as a cleaning agent in the presence of the chlorine/chloroform. I need to do a little research on that one though.

I've always wanted to ask if the use of chlorine bleach would discolor the trunk liner if someone attempted to use it to clean the liner? :waitasec:

Assuming it does not and can be explained as a possible cleaner, we know that acetone is a prescribed carpet cleaning solvent for ... chewing gum. :eat:

 

[Amil]

Interesting that they chose to write it in that manner.

IMHO, it seems plausible for the acetic acid to have been formed by the potential use of acetone as a cleaning agent in the presence of the chlorine/chloroform. I need to do a little research on that one though.

Nail polish remover and chlorox?

 

[impatientredhead]

Page 6557.

Prepare to hear the defense claim that the paper towels were used to clean up grease from bacon, ham, etc. as the report indicates the composition of the 'grave wax' is consistent with human and pig decomposition studies.

Anyone remember MF's 'ham sandwich' comments?

I would love to hear them try to sell this story. They would have better luck coming up with a plausible explanation of how a pigs corpse was in the trunk, resulting in clean up using the paper towels, and a chemical reaction that created the chloroform. No processed piece of meat is going to create grave wax.

If only her text had said she hit a pig, put him in the trunk to rush him to the vet, got distracted by something more important (look, a mirror!), leaving the poor porker to putrify in the pontiac.

 

[NocturnalLady]

I've always wanted to ask if the use of chlorine bleach would discolor the trunk liner if someone attempted to use it to clean the liner? :waitasec:

Assuming it does not and can be explained as a possible cleaner, we know that acetone is a prescribed carpet cleaning solvent for ... chewing gum. :eat:[/QUOTE]

BBM.

Oh dear lord. Not the gum. I can't handle it if the A's gum chomping enters into the trial. Please, please no! :slap: