2009.10.09 Duct Tape Photos From Remains Released

[KenoshaKid]

I apologise in advance for being graphic here but this is my duct tape theory.

I always thought that the duct tape was attached post mortem to stop the body from 'leaking' from the facial orifices.
<snip>
Then, after admiring her work for a sec she decides to cover the eyes because they're open and its not such a cute image, so she tears off a few more strips, then adds more tape to the face to really seal up the nose and mouth area.

Then she drives out again and off to find a place to leave the body.

Have you read the medical examiner's report? If not, it will answer a lot of questions for you. Dr Garavalgia's opinion was that it was not applied post-mortem. Also, she does not mention any tape over the eyes.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Have you read the medical examiner's report? If not, it will answer a lot of questions for you. Dr Garavalgia's opinion was that it was not applied post-mortem. Also, she does not mention any tape over the eyes.

Well, yes, I have read it and she says 'The duct tape was clearly placed prior to decomposition, keeping the mandible in place.' Meaning before the skin / muscle / ligaments etc began to 'disarticulate'.

I am assuming the placement of duct tape happened in the few days after the death before Caylee was placed in the woods. The tape over the eyes was discussed earlier in the thread.

I think Casey used chloroform to commit the act of murder IMO.

 

[watcher9]

Two things I was thinking about -

Is it possible that the wool was from a seat belt cover used to avoid neck irritation? I know there are sheepskin ones..

Would ICA be able to drive around if Caylee was duct taped while in her car seat?

 

[beach]

BBM

Do we know anything about the rug, from the back porch I think, that was mentioned in docs? Rugs are often made of wool. I'm not good at using the search functions on here but I will try to see if I can find anything about it.

Hi chefmom!

I know there has been speculation about the rug from the porch. There may be some info in the Fiber Analysis thread. I will link it below and bump it.

I need to study that thread from the beginning and I know there is more evidence located in the huge 1405 pg. doc dump from Oct. '09. I want to review more myself, but I am still recovering from my last venture digging through that massive doc. :crazy:

My next mission is to attmept to figure out from where the black wool originated. Would greatly appreciate any help!



Fiber Analysis Thread

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5198814#post5198814"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5198814#post5198814[/ame]

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Hi chefmom!

I know there has been speculation about the rug from the porch. There may be some info in the Fiber Analysis thread. I will link it below and bump it.

I need to study that thread from the beginning and I know there is more evidence located in the huge 1405 pg. doc dump from Oct. '09. I want to review more myself, but I am still recovering from my last venture digging through that massive doc. :crazy:

My next mission is to attmept to figure out from where the black wool originated. Would greatly appreciate any help!



Fiber Analysis Thread

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5198814#post5198814

SAME!! Am reading through the docs now looking for any woolen items. All the clothing cotton and spandex etc...no wool for the record. If we can find where the wool originated we will know where she was when the duct tape was applied. Will post any links if I come across anything.

 

[Aedrys]

Wow you guys are incredible...and if we can all theorize so well about the duct tape, I can't WAIT to see what the state is able to put together with their experts. I can also see why the defense is starting to go the route of "she might have killed her, but didn't dispose of her body". There's just no other way to try and get past the duct tape!

I am going to laugh my *advertiser censored** off if they try theories like it floated downstream, or it came from the back and just stuck to her face. Those just aren't going to work, especially after Dr. G hits the stand. I will never forget when she announced that the remains were Caylee's. She wanted to say more so badly, and it was killing her that she couldn't. I bet she'll say a LOT at trial.

Getting back to the duct tape, the defense is up sh** creek without a paddle because of it. No wonder they keep looking for someone else to pin this on, at least the body disposal/duct tape part. If forensics can tie it her with fiber evidence or some other evidence, she's cooked. Shoot, just tying it to the gas cans and Caylee posters is going to fry her.

I bet the defense is chugging pepto bismol like whiskey right now. They are quickly running out of options. And if people like us can come up with these awesome theories about the duct tape, I just know the state is going to come up with something even better.

Keep up the great work you guys! You ROCK!

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Well no sign of anything containing wool taken from the A home, but then LE would not have been looking for it in the searches mentioned in the doc dumps so far....will def be keeping eye out!

Oh and the porch rug was 'seafoam/cream coloured' so that can't be it either...hmmm

 

[beach]

I bet the defense is chugging pepto bismol like whiskey right now.

*snipped*

You crack me up, Aedrys! :rotfl:

 

[Mrs G Norris]

HA! Seriously what on earth are they going to say? The best way they could have gone would be if Casey would have gone down 'it was all a horrible accident' followed by disposal route, but its way too late for that now.

Duct tape on Caylee links the body directly to the Anthony's garage, its devastating evidence. There's no avoiding the fact that Casey dumped the body. NONE!

Baez is going to have to dispute the match between the duct tape on the skull and the duct tape in the garage, but the more he pushes that line the more solid the evidence is going to look. They're mad to let this go to trial, they're going to lose BIG.

 

[beach]

Two things I was thinking about -

Would ICA be able to drive around if Caylee was duct taped while in her car seat?

REALLY great point, watcher9!

 

[joypath]

Well, yes, I have read it and she says 'The duct tape was clearly placed prior to decomposition, keeping the mandible in place.' Meaning before the skin / muscle / ligaments etc began to 'disarticulate'.

I am assuming the placement of duct tape happened in the few days after the death before Caylee was placed in the woods. The tape over the eyes was discussed earlier in the thread.

I think Casey used chloroform to commit the act of murder IMO.

Rather than repeat a well discussed topic, let me just add that the placement of the tape which would effectively keep the mandible within anatomical position would have to be done WELL before a "few days after death before Caylee was placed in the woods". The autopsy report does indicate that the deed was done prior to decomposition of the body, that function is completely different from the disarticulation of the structure of the body. I agree completely that there's chapter and verse yet to come from Jan and rest assured, she'll be backing it up with scientific data & cases, hmmm think....like HHJP does case law!

But of course, just my humble unbiased opinion. :blushing:

 

[joypath]

Two things I was thinking about -

Is it possible that the wool was from a seat belt cover used to avoid neck irritation? I know there are sheepskin ones..

Would ICA be able to drive around if Caylee was duct taped while in her car seat?

Both great points for consideration!
#1. No idea...was anything of such a nature recovered from the vehicle?

#2. WHY NOT? You really got my synapses firing over this one! How many of us REALLY really pay attention to who or what is going on in the BACK SEAT of the car zipping past us on the road? Who would notice a "sleeping child in a car seat" and even less likely, actually zone in on the child's face if he or she were angelically still? (Demonic behavior always seems to get our attention!). And inline with this thread, if the tape were place only over her oral and nasal cavities, then a quick glance into the car would focus on her huge wide open eyes and if anybody did THINK they saw something else, the normal reaction would be "ah, no way" or maybe she was "tucked in" with the blanket and partially covered. PLUS, if ICA performed the deed in the evening hours or later, people would be so busy with their own lives or darkness would have set in, nobody would notice!
For all any of us know, ICA might have been a big fan of the idiotic movie, Weekend @ Bernie's I & II! (She does live in a fantasy scripted world!)

 

[countzero]

Don't believe even ICA would leave a murdered Caylee in her carseat and continue to drive around, if I am reading these posts correctly.

There would have been forensic evidence showing decomp on the carseat and to date we have not read any released docs stating this. Then add all the places she parked her vehicle, people would take note of a toddler in a locked empty vehicle and called LE immediately.

No, ICA committed the murder either in or near the A compound. The opportunity and items used and found were all available for coverup and disposal immediately after Caylee's final breath was taken.

Whether CA,GA and/or LA knew immediately or soon there after is where I sit on the fence.

 

[joypath]

Don't believe even ICA would leave a murdered Caylee in her carseat and continue to drive around, if I am reading these posts correctly.

There would have been forensic evidence showing decomp on the carseat and to date we have not read any released docs stating this. Then add all the places she parked her vehicle, people would take note of a toddler in a locked empty vehicle and called LE immediately.

No, ICA committed the murder either in or near the A compound. The opportunity and items used and found were all available for coverup and disposal immediately after Caylee's final breath was taken.

Whether CA,GA and/or LA knew immediately or soon there after is where I sit on the fence.

Count: not to belabor a point but the fluids from decomposition are not immediately, spontaneously released from a corpse. Had the oral or nasal cavity been exposed, then those NORMAL bodily fluids (saliva, mucous,tears) would have been drawn out by gravity pull if adequate. And those fluids ARE normally expected to be on an infant/child car seat, along with a myriad of other interesting GCMS spikes! :innocent: My up thread hypothesis merely provides ICA a convenient opportunity to stabilize Caylee in a familiar environment while the deed is done, probably with the ranting and raving of "open your mouth to MY MOTHER about ME will you, WELL that was for the LAST TIME, snothead!" or some such venom while slapping tape across her oral and nasal cavities. :furious: I also wonder if the heart was a left over from a previous project and just had the misfortune to be memorialized with a "this will fix you, brat" and a "everybody thinks you're sooooooooo special!", sneer!:furious: Then hothead :loser:Casey :loser:has to take off in the car because being the genius that she is, she hasn't planned ahead regarding body disposal!:banghead:

The effort and research in this topic as in all others totally amazes me, WS'ers ROCK ON!:dance:

 

[countzero]

Count: not to belabor a point but the fluids from decomposition are not immediately, spontaneously released from a corpse. Had the oral or nasal cavity been exposed, then those NORMAL bodily fluids (saliva, mucous,tears) would have been drawn out by gravity pull if adequate. And those fluids ARE normally expected to be on an infant/child car seat, along with a myriad of other interesting GCMS spikes! :innocent: My up thread hypothesis merely provides ICA a convenient opportunity to stabilize Caylee in a familiar environment while the deed is done, probably with the ranting and raving of "open your mouth to MY MOTHER about ME will you, WELL that was for the LAST TIME, snothead!" or some such venom while slapping tape across her oral and nasal cavities. :furious: I also wonder if the heart was a left over from a previous project and just had the misfortune to be memorialized with a "this will fix you, brat" and a "everybody thinks you're sooooooooo special!", sneer!:furious: Then hothead :loser:Casey :loser:has to take off in the car because being the genius that she is, she hasn't planned ahead regarding body disposal!:banghead:

The effort and research in this topic as in all others totally amazes me, WS'ers ROCK ON!:dance:

Thank you for being a member here.

Ok, I am open to the theory that ICA could have caused Caylee's last breath to happen in the vehicle. But reading the released docs from the first day of release, I just can't see it now. Now I do believe that ICA on more than one day, used an OTC to quiet Caylee and had her in the vehicle sleeping while ICA was busy doing her own thing instead of being a nurturing mother.

Back to how Caylee was found. All information so far released, the evidence for me winds right back to the A compound. Now if I follow any scenario concerning the vehicle, I have in the past theorized that ICA on the evening/early morning hours of June 15,16 put a hysterical Caylee in her carseat, pizzed over being ripped by CA for ICAs behavior with Caylee. ICA certainly has a short fuse. If Caylee passed during evening hours while the temps were lower than during the day, and ICA discovered her she then could have used items found at the discovery site that were easily accessible in the garage of the A compound. The heart sticker found on the duct tape, the tears on the ends, the configuration of how the duct tape was applied and the clothing found all come back to the A compound. Which kinda/sorta works with the stain in the trunk. Now I have to figure in the whereabouts of CA and GA since it was reported they used the garage to park their vehicles and ICA used the street. I have trouble with the timeline where BB loaned ICA the shovel and ICA backing her vehicle into the garage in that Caylee was/could have been placed in various locations in the backyard.

So, yes the theory that Caylee was murdered while in her carseat in the vehicle could be right. The fact that LE and the FBI are focused on the trunk and the carseat does not have forensic evidence of decomposition keeps me glued to Caylee taking her final breath in the A compound, first in ICAs bedroom or Caylees room. Caylee was then moved around till she was finally put into doubled trash bags, then into the laundry bag and tossed into the woods on Suburban Dr.

 

[Tulessa]

Gosh! I am impressed daily by this thread!! Great work guys!

 

[BlOnDe_GuRrL]

Weren't there black dress pants found in the car?
Could it be possible they were made of wool? I think most of mine are.. and my suit type outfits.

I was taping a package today and I kept sticking the roll on my pants to keep from losing the end and then having to pick it off the roll again. Or, sometimes I'd stick it on the end of the end table or sofa.

 

[sarah7855]

Weren't there black dress pants found in the car?
Could it be possible they were made of wool? I think most of mine are.. and my suit type outfits.

RSBM.

The brand of the pants was "Zinc". This is a brand that is commonly found in the discount type department stores around the area, Ross is the main store that comes to mind. I actually have a pair or two of these brand of pants. Early in the second trimester of my pregnancy, I didn't fit into my old clothes nor maternity stuff at that point, so I went and bought a few pairs of cheaper pants for work from Ross. One pair is even pinstriped They are made of polyster, rayon and spandex. I'm willing to bet that Casey's pants are the same as mine and that this isn't the source of the black wool. I soooo wish we could find the source of this wool, it's driving me crazy

 

[notthatsmart]

Might find black wool in gloves or socks. IMO

 

[Jolynna]

Might find black wool in gloves or socks. IMO

Or a rug.