2009.11.19 Defense Files Motion suggesting Kronk as Killer #4

[JBean]

Bold 1: Killed her because she wanted to party. I have never heard of such a thing in real life. Do you believe there are other cases where someone actually killed someone so they could party?
Do you believe that SA is going to use this as the motive?

SA does not need motive

Bold 3: The medical examiners report says they do not know the cause of death. The 3 pieces of duct tape only showed the manner was homicide. Could still be an accident and certainly does not show premeditated murder. I highly doubt anyone Killed Caylee with Duct tape.

The ME would have ruled the manner of death as accidental if she thought it was accidental.

 

[BeanE]

Bold 2: The 15th or 16th. Tough one to prove. She was on the phone most of the night and most of the next day. Jt says he saw her on the 16th in the afternoon at Walmart with Caylee. That leaves a very small window of time to do this while being on the phone at the same time. Did I miss something? Did SA say the 16th? Do you really think they will go with the 16th? I don't.

Exactly how many hours was KC on the phone on the 15th and 16th?

Exactly how many hours were in that very small window of time?

While being on the phone at the same time? Are you saying KC was on the phone for 48 hours straight on the 15th and 16th?

Let's look at the facts. I'd like to learn what you know. Please provide the info supporting what you state.

Thanks, NTS.

BeanE

 

[TorisMom003]

While not the exact same, Susan Smith killed her children because the guy she was "dating" used them as an excuse to break up with her. Susan killed her boys in order to get the guy again. While not exactly her wanting to party it was a very selfish reason and one that does go along the same lines as wanting to party.

I also said that Casey wanted to get back at Cindy. This is a very valid idea since we have seen and heard the bad feelings between Casey and Cindy. We have heard that Casey and Cindy would both try and raise Caylee as if each were Caylee's mother.

Time of death really does not have a bearing on did she do it or not, for me. We know that the night of when Caylee went "missing" Casey was seen in Blockbusters on video picking out movies as if she had nary a care in the world. We also have her then boyfriends testimony who was with her the entire night after Caylee went "missing" saying that Casey did not behave in an unusual manner, did not seem concerned for her child, etc. We also know that no one has come forward nor is there any proof of anyone babysitting Caylee the night she went "missing".

3 pieces of duct tape across a childs nose and mouth does not happen accidentally. There is just no way to explain that one at all. If (and that's a mighty big IF for me) it was an accident then the normal thing to do would be to notify 911 or someone else (say an ex LE dad or nurse mom) to help the child.

JMO

 

[BeanE]

Could still be an accident and certainly does not show premeditated murder.

Are you saying that you believe it could still be an accident although KC and her attorneys have stated more than once that there was no accident? Do you know something that KC and her attorneys do not?

Please help me understand what you're thinking.

Thank you, NTS.

BeanE

 

[notthatsmart]

It is true that Sa does not have to prove motive. Motive would help to prove guilt though.
Le does not have to prove motive to investigate RK either.

 

[azwriter]

Yeah the only thing that I can think of to make the connection is that he was their meter reader, so he had to be in front of the house at some point.

The Mountain of other evidence against him is just circumstantial, just like Casey. That is probably why he should be looked at as an equal suspect.

The 5 W's really bother me.

We only think we have the who, but we are still missing:
The Why
The Where
The When
The How (oops sorry I guess I meant 4 W's and one H)

Now I understand that SA 's job is to make KC look guilty, but for LE with hind sight, and not finding any smoking gun, it is their job to continue to look for the truth.

Nothing I stated was stated as fact. It is of my opinion only.

Evidence shows there was a decomposing Caylee in the trunk of Casey's car. How in the world will the defense tie that to Kronk?
jmo

 

[notthatsmart]

While not the exact same, Susan Smith killed her children because the guy she was "dating" used them as an excuse to break up with her. Susan killed her boys in order to get the guy again. While not exactly her wanting to party it was a very selfish reason and one that does go along the same lines as wanting to party.

I also said that Casey wanted to get back at Cindy. This is a very valid idea since we have seen and heard the bad feelings between Casey and Cindy. We have heard that Casey and Cindy would both try and raise Caylee as if each were Caylee's mother.

Time of death really does not have a bearing on did she do it or not, for me. We know that the night of when Caylee went "missing" Casey was seen in Blockbusters on video picking out movies as if she had nary a care in the world. We also have her then boyfriends testimony who was with her the entire night after Caylee went "missing" saying that Casey did not behave in an unusual manner, did not seem concerned for her child, etc. We also know that no one has come forward nor is there any proof of anyone babysitting Caylee the night she went "missing".

3 pieces of duct tape across a childs nose and mouth does not happen accidentally. There is just no way to explain that one at all. If (and that's a mighty big IF for me) it was an accident then the normal thing to do would be to notify 911 or someone else (say an ex LE dad or nurse mom) to help the child.

JMO

Bold 1: yes and there you have it, there was a known and reasonable motive, just like in the SP case. I just don't consider partying a known and reasonable motive.

Bold 2: Which one do you think SA will use? Partying or get back at mom?

Bold 3: Time of death is not important to you. It is for me. We have different opinions on that. I respect that and accept that. The fact that she acted normal indicates to me that this is not the day or night Caylee died, if Casey killed her.

Bold 4: Well I certainly agree that 3 pieces of duct tape across the childs nose and mouth (if that is indeed what they found), is not an accident. But there is no official document that I know of that states that that was the cause of death. The duct tape was used to keep the child quiet in my opinion.

 

[JBean]

It is true that Sa does not have to prove motive. Motive would help to prove guilt though.
Le does not have to prove motive to investigate RK either.

Maybe they did investigate him.

 

[Trapshooter]

Bold 1: yes and there you have it, there was a known and reasonable motive, just like in the SP case. I just don't consider partying a known and reasonable motive.

Bold 2: Which one do you think SA will use? Partying or get back at mom?

Bold 3: Time of death is not important to you. It is for me. We have different opinions on that. I respect that and accept that. The fact that she acted normal indicates to me that this is not the day or night Caylee died, if Casey killed her.

Bold 4: Well I certainly agree that 3 pieces of duct tape across the childs nose and mouth (if that is indeed what they found), is not an accident. But there is no official document that I know of that states that that was the cause of death. The duct tape was used to keep the child quiet in my opinion.

What are saying NTS when you say "if that is indeed what they found"? That is EXACTLY what they found! Haven't you seen the pictures & documents posted of the duct tape?

 

[notthatsmart]

The SA doesn't have to prove motive (Casey's own actions suggest motive) or manner of death. As far as it being an accident...the SA is not taking that route, are they? Will the defense, NTS?

ETA: good that you have never met anyone who would be willing to sacrifice their own child in order to have the life they want, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Bold 1. I do not believe the defense will use the accident defense. They are way too confident.

Bold 2: I was just saying that I have never heard of a case where someone killed someone so they could party. I never said anything about killing someone to have the life they want. Do you know of any cases where someone killed someone so they could party? Or even someone killed someone because they were mad at their mom?

 

[TorisMom003]

Bold 1: yes and there you have it, there was a known and reasonable motive, just like in the SP case. I just don't consider partying a known and reasonable motive.

Bold 2: Which one do you think SA will use? Partying or get back at mom?

Bold 3: Time of death is not important to you. It is for me. We have different opinions on that. I respect that and accept that. The fact that she acted normal indicates to me that this is not the day or night Caylee died, if Casey killed her.

Bold 4: Well I certainly agree that 3 pieces of duct tape across the childs nose and mouth (if that is indeed what they found), is not an accident. But there is no official document that I know of that states that that was the cause of death. The duct tape was used to keep the child quiet in my opinion.

The SA could use all 3 as motive. They do tend to go together in a way. Did any of Casey's boyfriends say that her having a child was a problem? Not that I know of. However, one with a child can not go out and party unless someone else is willing to take care of that child. One with a child can not go spend the night or the week with a boyfriend without either taking the child with them or having someone babysit the child. Both felt that their children were getting in the way of what they wanted so both did away with their children.

It is not important for me that they determine the exact time of death. The reason that is not important to me is that we have a window of when Casey had to have done this. There is no proof of anyone watching Caylee the night of Casey and TL going to Blockbusters. IF someone had been watching Caylee that night then I would say that Casey would have already admitted that. She hasn't so I would say that no one was.

3 layers of duct tape on a child the size of Caylee is (forgive the pun) overkill if it was used to "quiet" her. The duct tape would also have NOT been applied over the nose. It doesn't take a genius to understand that a child with their mouth and nose covered will die from lack of oxygen.

JMO

 

[notthatsmart]

What are saying NTS when you say "if that is indeed what they found"? That is EXACTLY what they found! Haven't you seen the pictures & documents posted of the duct tape?

I have not seen a picture of the skull with duct tape over the nose and mouth. I have heard the defense say that they are going to challenge this part of the evidence, and they have seen those pics. The enthomology Dr said that he found Caylee's skull standing upright and facing northwest, so it is not as though it was facing skyward and the duct tape was laying across the nose and the mouth. I would think if it was standing upright, the ground was holding the mandible in place. So, yes I need to see those pictures after hearing and seeing conflicting reports. The facts that I stated are of my opinion. thanks

Ps Rk said the skull dropped out of the bag. The enthomologist said the skulll was adheared to the ground with root growth and vegitation. One of them is lying.

 

[TorisMom003]

Bold 1. I do not believe the defense will use the accident defense. They are way too confident.

Bold 2: I was just saying that I have never heard of a case where someone killed someone so they could party. I never said anything about killing someone to have the life they want. Do you know of any cases where someone killed someone so they could party? Or even someone killed someone because they were mad at their mom?

Per the bolded: I have seen cases where a man has killed his children because of problems with his wife/ex wife. The reason the man killed his children was punishment for his wife/ex wife. While Cindy is not Casey's spouse they did live together, Cindy did pay Casey and Caylee's bills, Cindy did control Casey in her own ways. So while you may not consider that to be a good motive, I personally do.

JMO

 

[RR0004]

Bold 1. I do not believe the defense will use the accident defense. They are way too confident.

Bold 2: I was just saying that I have never heard of a case where someone killed someone so they could party. I never said anything about killing someone to have the life they want. Do you know of any cases where someone killed someone so they could party? Or even someone killed someone because they were mad at their mom?

Mad at their mom? Have you heard about the recent case in Fla.? Again, I'm glad that you don't know anyone that would kill for such reasons. I don't like seeing posts picked apart word for word...the message IMO was clear...Casey wanted a different life. (JMHO or interpretation of the post.)

 

[RR0004]

I have not seen a picture of the skull with duct tape over the nose and mouth. I have heard the defense say that they are going to challenge this part of the evidence, and they have seen those pics. The enthomology Dr said that he found Caylee's skull standing upright and facing northwest, so it is not as though it was facing skyward and the duct tape was laying across the nose and the mouth. I would think if it was standing upright, the ground was holding the mandible in place. So, yes I need to see those pictures after hearing and seeing conflicting reports. The facts that I stated are of my opinion. thanks

Ps Rk said the skull dropped out of the bag. The enthomologist said the skulll was adheared to the ground with root growth and vegitation. One of them is lying.

...and he went back and corrected himself in a police interview. Not like finding a bag of bones would have any affect on someone. Geesh!

 

[RR0004]

I have not seen a picture of the skull with duct tape over the nose and mouth. I have heard the defense say that they are going to challenge this part of the evidence, and they have seen those pics. The enthomology Dr said that he found Caylee's skull standing upright and facing northwest, so it is not as though it was facing skyward and the duct tape was laying across the nose and the mouth. I would think if it was standing upright, the ground was holding the mandible in place. So, yes I need to see those pictures after hearing and seeing conflicting reports. The facts that I stated are of my opinion. thanks

Ps Rk said the skull dropped out of the bag. The enthomologist said the skulll was adheared to the ground with root growth and vegitation. One of them is lying.

Please link these conflicting reports.

(PS...the tape was wrapped across the face and also attached to the hair)

 

[notthatsmart]

Maybe they did investigate him.

I think they did investigate him, but not as an equal suspect with circumstantial evidence. I do not believe they crossed state lines and talked to his ex wives or his son. The defense claims that they never even aquired his phone records. His former kidnapping charge should have been a big red flag for them.

And if they did investigate him, where is the sunshine law discovery of that?

It is just my opinion that they did not investigate him. I base this on the lack of evidence that they did. I really don't believe in my heart of hearts that they ever looked at him as a suspect.

 

[RR0004]

I think they did investigate him, but not as an equal suspect with circumstantial evidence. I do not believe they crossed state lines and talked to his ex wives or his son. The defense claims that they never even aquired his phone records. His former kidnapping charge should have been a big red flag for them.

And if they did investigate him, where is the sunshine law discovery of that?

It is just my opinion that they did not investigate him. I base this on the lack of evidence that they did. I really don't believe in my heart of hearts that they ever looked at him as a suspect.

What connects Kronk to an alive Caylee? I know how hard it is for some to accept that a mother can kill her own child, but blaming it on someone who has no connection to poor Caylee will not bring her the justice she so deserves. IMO

 

[notthatsmart]

Please link these conflicting reports.

(PS...the tape was wrapped across the face and also attached to the hair)

You haven't seen the enthomology and medical examiners reports? Have you heard or read Rk interviews? I will get those links to you tomorrow.

Ps, wrapped across the face, but not attached to any flesh. I am sure the duct tape did not detach itself from the flesh and then reattach itself to the bone. It was connected to the hair, but could be just flopping around in the water. I really need to see those pics since the defense said they will challenge this part.

 

[LC446]

I think they did investigate him, but not as an equal suspect with circumstantial evidence. I do not believe they crossed state lines and talked to his ex wives or his son. The defense claims that they never even aquired his phone records. His former kidnapping charge should have been a big red flag for them.

And if they did investigate him, where is the sunshine law discovery of that?

It is just my opinion that they did not investigate him. I base this on the lack of evidence that they did. I really don't believe in my heart of hearts that they ever looked at him as a suspect.

NTS, you are quite entitled to your opinion and I can respect that. I think we have gone over and over and over this. I think that what I am understanding from you is that you feel that LE did not investigate Kronk to your satisfaction? You have every right to feel that way.

However, LE, sets a standard and determines who is and who is not a suspect and they follow where the case leads. It's not up to you and me. And what they did or didn't do will be held up to scrutiny in the courtroom. I think to resolve this we are going to have to wait and see what comes out in court. On a side note...it is interesting that Jose still has not filed his witness list, with any of these deposed persons listed. I don't think that anyone will be able to answer your questions to your satisfaction.

Sadly, the case and clues led to the mother of Caylee. I know it is upsetting to believe that a mom would kill their child. But, unfortunately it happens. I think you might be taking others posts too literally, when you simplify someone's statement to say..killed someone because they were mad at their mom or killed someone to party. It's like RR said...it was that she wanted a different lifestyle, the "bella vita" if you will.