2010.02.16 Document Release: Stain on Trunk Liner

[LambChop]

I am both heartbroken and ill, knowing precious Caylee laid in the trunk of her car. I mean, this was told from the beginning but just seeing the evidence wreaks havoc on my heart. As a mother and grandmother, I just cannot understand the evil held in the heart of KC. How do you do this to a child, a gift from God, a miracle..so sad..I've cried so much for this child I never had the pleasure of meeting. Had she been my granddaughter, she'd still be here with us. I am so angry at all the Anthony's, they truly should be ashamed of themselves.

I also want to thank you all for the great work you do in analyzing the evidence.

How did CA clean out that trunk, knowing her grandchild could have been the one who was deceased back there? How did they not call the authorities from the tow yard? Why did she was those clothes KC had in the trunk, they would have contained a treasure trove of evidence? How did KC's parents elude arrest?

As far as the carseat goes, does anyone remember the deposition from CA. When the SA was asking her about the carseat and Caylee's teeth. Did anyone see if CSI found one of Caylee's teeth in the car seat or the rear seat where Caylee's carseat sits?? I don't remember seeing any results from that or on that.
JMHO

Justice for Caylee

I want to say that in CA's deposition for the State that there was a photo of two lists that were turned over to JB. One of the lists which would have DNA items from both KC and Caylee (mostly Caylee), I believe, had a tooth listed. Now KC is alive. All they needed to do was swab KC's cheek as she was out on bond, sooooooo....did the tooth belong to Caylee. Caylee is way too little to have lost a tooth this early unless a dentist removed it for some reason.

Have to see if I can find it.

Edit to add CA depo part II:

At the back of the depo is Exhibit 22, second page: CA in her depo identifies it as CA's writing and JB tells CA to "zip it". I blew the page up to 400% and a tooth is listed under bib. Other things on the list are pacifier and straw. This looks like a list for Caylee to identify DNA for defense. Why would KC have a tooth?????

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21310288/detail.html

 

[watcher9]

Interesting notation about not examining the vac's- what was the determining factor for "no need" to examine them? Apparently they had a tc about it, in June....June?

For the life of me, I can't imagine why they wouldn't want to test the vacuum cleaners, if not for chemicals, what about for hairs or other evidence?
Just a thought, maybe there is ANOTHER test result sitting out there...

 

[LambChop]

For the life of me, I can't imagine why they wouldn't want to test the vacuum cleaners, if not for chemicals, what about for hairs or other evidence?
Just a thought, maybe there is ANOTHER test result sitting out there...

Maybe the simple answer is that he did not need to test them now, or he did not need to test them because the FBI would be doing so. It is what is not written that leaves you wondering. JMO

 

[debbie0604]

I specifically remember his comment as well, that he saw some laundry or a laundry bag in the trunk. I think he mentioned hangers or cloths hangers as well. I've looked for his statement for months and haven't been able to find it. I'm so glad someone else remembers GA saying something about it...I was beginning to think I just dreamed it.

No I remember it too. I also remember him asking her for the spare jack...I'm thinking.. why would he want her spare jack? IIRC he tells KC that he wanted to use it to change CA's tire or something. Am I wrong here too? Anyway... KC goes and hands him the gas can instead....

My question is....did she have a spare tire in the car at that time? She had previously stated that she had a flat tire and I'm thinking that if there was no spare in the car, I'm wondering if she had Caylee in the trunk and placed the cover over Caylee as a way to try to hide her and the stains got on the board that way?

Another possibility could be.... from looking at Eidetic's photos is that she could have placed Caylee on top of the liner just as is shown in Eidetic's visuals. If she had had a flat tire and there was no spare in the trunk, she may not have secured the cover back properly. The bags may not have been secured very well either. After days of riding around, God I hate to type this.... well... everyone can assume and know what would happen... and that's what could cause the stain underneath the board. I'm feeling very bad now. She is a mean and horrible woman for what she did to her baby. :furious:

 

[racegirl72]

snipped ** Page 14... only chloroform was found… no other chemicals were found... so no cleaners were used

I thought Cindy cleaned the car, so why no cleaning substances found???


Also, in some of the evidence pictures, there's a photo of the plastic packet that a syringe came in (tried to post photo, but photobucket won't upload the photo for some reason) But I was wandering if they compared this brand of syringe as to what brand was available at Cindy's work? I'm thinking maybe Casey could have gotten her hands on it from Cindy's work or something....since she visited Cindy at work to bum $$$ or drop Caylee off to her there...

 

[LambChop]

GA asked for a wheel wedge. They use it to keep the car from moving. There is no tire in the photos of the car that we see, nor a jack. It was July 24th when GA got the gas cans from KC. Experts say the body was only in the car 2.6 days so Caylee was probably disposed of as soon as the rigor mortis disappated which would be in about 2.6 days. That would have been around the 19th or 20th, 4 days before the gas can incident. JMO

 

[spyhouston]

I should know this but I just don't. Was the spare tire in the car when it was recovered?

 

[RR0004]

I want to say that in CA's deposition for the State that there was a photo of two lists that were turned over to JB. One of the lists which would have DNA items from both KC and Caylee (mostly Caylee), I believe, had a tooth listed. Now KC is alive. All they needed to do was swab KC's cheek as she was out on bond, sooooooo....did the tooth belong to Caylee. Caylee is way too little to have lost a tooth this early unless a dentist removed it for some reason.

Have to see if I can find it.

Edit to add CA depo part II:

At the back of the depo is Exhibit 22, second page: CA in her depo identifies it as CA's writing and JB tells CA to "zip it". I blew the page up to 400% and a tooth is listed under bib. Other things on the list are pacifier and straw. This looks like a list for Caylee to identify DNA for defense. Why would KC have a tooth?????

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21310288/detail.html

IIRC...CA was pretty miffed at them for not correctly stating the amount of teeth she had either.

{Like it was the State's fault that they couldn't locate every little piece of poor Caylee.}

Ya know when CA picks on something...you just have to wonder if there is more to it.

 

[steadychick]

Where is the spare tire??? I thought that the tires, including the spare, had been replaced by George after Casey had that double flat. Can't remember the date. So why aren't we seeing the spare and evidence that might be on it?

 

[Harmony 2]

I personally think she was placed in the trunk on top of the spare cover. Possibly bagged and other items were placed in the trunk to conceal her. Such as the trash from TL's and the gas cans and such.

snipped, bolded and underscored by me for content

I thoroughly agree! I think she placed her toward the back and placed the crate and white trash bag in front to hide her. The trash bag would have also served as an excuse for the odor. Using Eidetic's photos I made the following graphic:

(Note: Thank you Eidetic)

 

[momtective]

snipped, bolded and underscored by me for content

I thoroughly agree! I think she placed her toward the back and placed the crate and white trash bag in front to hide her. The trash bag would have also served as an excuse for the odor. Using Eidetic's photos I made the following graphic:

Photos removed for space.

Excellent job to both Eidetic and Harmony2!

Harmony I think you've got it gal...I can really see this as being exactly how things, including Caylee, were placed in that trunk...now the question of whether she was already in the laundry bag when GA retrieved the cans...my guess is yes. I believe KC killed Caylee the night of the 15th, after the "big fight" with CA. I believe KC put her body in the laundry bag the following day when she went back to Hopespring. She then stuffed Caylee deep into the trunk and put the collapsible bin in front of her, the trash bag on one side of the bin and the gas cans on the other. Anyone catching a glimpse into the trunk would just assume it was her personal belongings in there along with a bag of trash she forgot to put in the dumpster. If anyone smelled anything she could always say "Oh, it's that stupid trash, I meant to toss it in the dumpster the other day but I was in a hurry so I just stuck it in the trunk. I've just been so busy I forgot all about it, silly me."

 

[ZsaZsa]

IIRC...CA was pretty miffed at them for not correctly stating the amount of teeth she had either.

{Like it was the State's fault that they couldn't locate every little piece of poor Caylee.}

Ya know when CA picks on something...you just have to wonder if there is more to it.

Yes, whatever CA lies about/gets agitated about is of vital importance. Maybe she knew that Casey had already knocked out one of Caylee's teeth, so she knew they would not find a complete set with the remains.

 

[Wescott]

*pics removed and bold by me*

I don't think the space was big enough. After getting the actual measurements from Wescott the space is only 6 inches deep as I originally hypothesized. I was off on the length and width but to me the depth of only 6 inches is the kicker. Also with the dimensions Wescott was able to provide the total amount of space is only 2.3 cu ft. Caylee was 37 inches tall (3ft1) given body proportions that would make Caylee roughly 15 inches wide at the shoulders. So she wouldn't fit on her side in that space and be completely covered by the carpeted lid. That and she would be to tall for her to be on her back. If her legs were tucked up she would still be coming out of the 6 inch deep compartment. To me Caylee just doesn't fit in that space in a way that the cover can be placed over her to cover her and look normal. That and the stain suggests something was on top of it and leaked through the carpet to the board.

I personally think she was placed in the trunk on top of the spare cover. Possibly bagged and other items were placed in the trunk to conceal her. Such as the trash from TL's and the gas cans and such.

Caylee most definately would not fit into the compartment. Not a scientific experiment by any stretch of the imagination, but I got my dog to jump in and he burrowed around and lay down and there is no way I could put the liner back in place.

 

[Wescott]

I want to say that in CA's deposition for the State that there was a photo of two lists that were turned over to JB. One of the lists which would have DNA items from both KC and Caylee (mostly Caylee), I believe, had a tooth listed. Now KC is alive. All they needed to do was swab KC's cheek as she was out on bond, sooooooo....did the tooth belong to Caylee. Caylee is way too little to have lost a tooth this early unless a dentist removed it for some reason.

Have to see if I can find it.

Edit to add CA depo part II:

At the back of the depo is Exhibit 22, second page: CA in her depo identifies it as CA's writing and JB tells CA to "zip it". I blew the page up to 400% and a tooth is listed under bib. Other things on the list are pacifier and straw. This looks like a list for Caylee to identify DNA for defense. Why would KC have a tooth?????

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21310288/detail.html

Exactly and why would CA be so adamant about Caylee having all of her teeth? IIRC she insisted she knew because she brushed Caylee's teeth. I could be wrong but weren't all of Caylee's teeth except one found with her remains?

 

[racegirl72]

Anyone?

snipped ** Page 14... only chloroform was found… no other chemicals were found... so no cleaners were used

I thought Cindy cleaned the car, so why no cleaning substances found???


Also, in some of the evidence pictures, there's a photo of the plastic packet that a syringe came in (tried to post photo, but photobucket won't upload the photo for some reason) But I was wandering if they compared this brand of syringe as to what brand was available at Cindy's work? I'm thinking maybe Casey could have gotten her hands on it from Cindy's work or something....since she visited Cindy at work to bum $$$ or drop Caylee off to her there...

 

[3doglady]

Exactly and why would CA be so adamant about Caylee having all of her teeth? IIRC she insisted she knew because she brushed Caylee's teeth. I could be wrong but weren't all of Caylee's teeth except one found with her remains?

The list says "s tooth". I think this was JB's shorthand for spiderman toothbrush. This was discussed in CA's depo thread. I think the reason JB wanted CA to "zip it" is because he wrote the list and he did not want that fact known. CA clearly didn't understand why he was objecting or what he was objecting to.

 

[Harmony 2]

Anyone?

snipped ** Page 14... only chloroform was found… no other chemicals were found... so no cleaners were used

I thought Cindy cleaned the car, so why no cleaning substances found???


Also, in some of the evidence pictures, there's a photo of the plastic packet that a syringe came in (tried to post photo, but photobucket won't upload the photo for some reason) But I was wandering if they compared this brand of syringe as to what brand was available at Cindy's work? I'm thinking maybe Casey could have gotten her hands on it from Cindy's work or something....since she visited Cindy at work to bum $$$ or drop Caylee off to her there...

This thread may answer your questions:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91436"]Welcome our Chemist to Websleuths/Syringe in bottle and traces of chloroform #3 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Eidetic]

IT is not just the TV reporters, it is the newspapers too. We have to watch 'em!

NG said Caylee was buried 10 houses down from the A's tonight :banghead:

 

[cloud9]

snipped, bolded and underscored by me for content

I thoroughly agree! I think she placed her toward the back and placed the crate and white trash bag in front to hide her. The trash bag would have also served as an excuse for the odor. Using Eidetic's photos I made the following graphic:

(Note: Thank you Eidetic)

Fabulous work!!! When I look at your picture with the items, and where they could have been in the trunk, I can understand it. Thank you!

 

[cloud9]

I couldn't find a specific thread for this. If this link has already been posted, I apologize. These are high resolution photos from the release yesterday.

http://www.refugeesunleashed.net/viewtopic.php?t=22178&highlight