2010.02.16 Document Release: Stain on Trunk Liner

[Curious Me]

I couldn't find a specific thread for this. If this link has already been posted, I apologize. These are high resolution photos from the release yesterday.

http://www.refugeesunleashed.net/viewtopic.php?t=22178&highlight

:sunshine: Thanks, cloud9 for the high resolution photo link. Very clear pics.

 

[ynotdivein]

Hi again all... wow, thanks to everyone for making this thread awesome. Eidetic, Harmony2, JBean... well, a wise person once told me never to start naming "people to thank" in any kind of public address because you will always leave someone out unintentionally & make them :furious:. So in short, THANKS sleuthers! :grouphug:

One thing I want to get your feedback on--the bag that came out of the trunk at the tow yard... If I am reading correctly (and cross country flight definitely having impact on that), the general thought is that it was in there at the time that Caylee was. I still feel that she pushed Caylee to the back of the trunk and piled stuff in front of her to hide her, but I think that the tow yard trash bag was placed there after Caylee was out of the car, but over the spot where she had been laying. Any way to determine this?

Barring KC coming clean that is, and for that I am not holding my breath.

[Oh, and two final thoughts. First, thanks again to all, lurkers too, for being so responsive to my first "starting a thread" experiment. Truly grateful for all ideas and input and conversation. And to Caylee: baby girl, I know we all hate having to write some of the things that we have to, as we try to figure out what happened to you. It helps to think that you are safe and happy now. We carry your beautiful smile with us, and so you live on in our hearts.]

 

[debbie0604]

GA asked for a wheel wedge. They use it to keep the car from moving. There is no tire in the photos of the car that we see, nor a jack. It was July 24th when GA got the gas cans from KC. Experts say the body was only in the car 2.6 days so Caylee was probably disposed of as soon as the rigor mortis disappated which would be in about 2.6 days. That would have been around the 19th or 20th, 4 days before the gas can incident. JMO

Thank you for clarifying... he asked for a wedge. Hmm...when she did finally open the trunk for him then...the question should immediately have been...."what is he77 is that smell?"

Am wondering if there is some truth in her "half-truths" and she may have had a flat tire along the way....and its possible that someone could have helped her change it? Is it possible that in the process of changing the flat, i.e. having to get to the spare tire, unscrew the spare tire holder and lift up the cover board - the bag with the body was moved..... fluids escaped staining both the carpet and underneath the coverboard? This would mean that someone possibly helped her change the flat....and knows about the body but is not saying anything. :furious: On the other hand.. the stains could be from the body being in the car for days and the fluids leaking out staining both the carpet and the coverboard which may be porous.

 

[LambChop]

The body would have broken down very quickly in a trunk with the hot Florida sun beating down on it. Experts say 2.6 days, no longer, otherwise you would have seen much more fluid in her trunk. On the 24th when GA went for the gas cans there may not have been a strong smell in the car. KC only mentions the smell on the 27th in a text message to AH and that is the day she dumped the car. So sometime after the 24th the car probably started to reak otherwise she would have dumped the car earlier.

It appears the body was on top of the carpet area of the spare tire well and the stain under the carpet may be from leakage or it's an old stain. You can see from pictures earlier in this thread what looks like the outline of a child's body on top of the carpet.

If the body had been in the car a week or longer no amount of cleaning would work on that car. Once the body started to seriously breakdown the Amscot people would have known there was a body in the car. That would have been 15 days after Caylee went missing. JMO

 

[debbie0604]

The body would have broken down very quickly in a trunk with the hot Florida sun beating down on it. Experts say 2.6 days, no longer, otherwise you would have seen much more fluid in her trunk. On the 24th when GA went for the gas cans there may not have been a strong smell in the car. KC only mentions the smell on the 27th in a text message to AH and that is the day she dumped the car. So sometime after the 24th the car probably started to reak otherwise she would have dumped the car earlier.

It appears the body was on top of the carpet area of the spare tire well and the stain under the carpet may be from leakage or it's an old stain. You can see from pictures earlier in this thread what looks like the outline of a child's body on top of the carpet.

If the body had been in the car a week or longer no amount of cleaning would work on that car. Once the body started to seriously breakdown the Amscot people would have known there was a body in the car. That would have been 15 days after Caylee went missing. JMO

I can definitely see that from the pictures posted in this thread....I am leaning towards believing that her body was on top of the carpet in the trunk and those stains are possibly from leakage and not from an old stain :furious: .... was just brainstorming :waitasec: and tossing out thoughts going thru my head...

 

[LambChop]

I can definitely see that from the pictures posted in this thread....I am leaning towards believing that her body was on top of the carpet in the trunk and those stains are possibly from leakage and not from an old stain :furious: .... was just brainstorming :waitasec: and tossing out thoughts going thru my head...

I know. It sure does not look good. It's possible it is from something else that was in the trunk....but it just is not looking too good for KC. JMO

 

[Harmony 2]

The body would have broken down very quickly in a trunk with the hot Florida sun beating down on it. Experts say 2.6 days, no longer, otherwise you would have seen much more fluid in her trunk. On the 24th when GA went for the gas cans there may not have been a strong smell in the car. KC only mentions the smell on the 27th in a text message to AH and that is the day she dumped the car. So sometime after the 24th the car probably started to reak otherwise she would have dumped the car earlier.

It appears the body was on top of the carpet area of the spare tire well and the stain under the carpet may be from leakage or it's an old stain. You can see from pictures earlier in this thread what looks like the outline of a child's body on top of the carpet.

If the body had been in the car a week or longer no amount of cleaning would work on that car. Once the body started to seriously breakdown the Amscot people would have known there was a body in the car. That would have been 15 days after Caylee went missing. JMO

re: bolded and underscored by me

How do you interpret the following from the entomology report:

page 8 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/15084977/Forensic-Entymology-Report

 

[LambChop]

re: bolded and underscored by me

How do you interpret the following from the entomology report:

page 8 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/15084977/Forensic-Entymology-Report

Since one of the experts said the decomp was from 2.6 days after death that would be on the 20th. They knew there was no body in the car after the 27th because the car was left locked at Amscot. If she removed the body after the 20th there would be more than 2.6 days of decomp. I would imagine. Plus I am thinking KC waited until the body came out of rigor when she was capable of handling her. Bodies do not stay together for very long in a hot Florida climate, plus the flies would be swarming all around her car trunk. Explain that to TL. KC got rid of Caylee as soon as she was able to. Her efforts with the shovel on the 18th tells us she was trying to do it then. JMO

 

[debbie0604]

Since one of the experts said the decomp was from 2.6 days after death that would be on the 20th. They knew there was no body in the car after the 27th because the car was left locked at Amscot. If she removed the body after the 20th there would be more than 2.6 days of decomp. I would imagine. Plus I am thinking KC waited until the body came out of rigor when she was capable of handling her. Bodies do not stay together for very long in a hot Florida climate, plus the flies would be swarming all around her car trunk. Explain that to TL. KC got rid of Caylee as soon as she was able to. Her efforts with the shovel on the 18th tells us she was trying to do it then. JMO

I tend to agree... rigor is accelerated in extreme heat, and the duration would have been shortened. I'm not sure that she was thinking about this process in her mind, however. I tend to think that Caylee was already in the bag. I still believe that there would have been an odor present in the trunk because of the heat and rapid acceleration of decomposition, even if she removed the body shortly after rigor dissipated. Once that smell is present....it's there. But I'm with you, flies will not swarm unless there is something there (i.e. body). JMO

 

[LambChop]

I tend to agree... rigor is accelerated in extreme heat, and the duration would have been shortened. I'm not sure that she was thinking about this process in her mind, however. I tend to think that Caylee was already in the bag. I still believe that there would have been an odor present in the trunk because of the heat and rapid acceleration of decomposition, even if she removed the body shortly after rigor dissipated. Once that smell is present....it's there. But I'm with you, flies will not swarm unless there is something there (i.e. body). JMO

Yep, plus the flies would have drawn a lot of attention.

 

[Curious Me]

Great work has been done on this thread. Thank You for working so hard to bring Caylee the Justice she deserves. I can see very clearly how Casey managed to conceal Caylee in the trunk of her car until she figured out how to deal with it.

I lean towards the body being removed from the car on June 18th, but don't understand why the smell seemed to get worse after that. I have to imagine the leakage was substantial in those first couple of days, and wasn't cleaned up right away. Not sure Casey did that much to clean the trunk before leaving her car at Amscot.

IMO, I think the bag of trash from TonE's came later, and was added to cover up.

I think the worry was GA would smell the car, not see anything, the night of the gas cans returned.

The flies, I didn't think about how troublesome they would have become. What a nightmare.

 

[debbie0604]

Great work has been done on this thread. Thank You for working so hard to bring Caylee the Justice she deserves. I can see very clearly how Casey managed to conceal Caylee in the trunk of her car until she figured out how to deal with it.

I lean towards the body being removed from the car on June 18th, but don't understand why the smell seemed to get worse after that. I have to imagine the leakage was substantial in those first couple of days, and wasn't cleaned up right away. Not sure Casey did that much to clean the trunk before leaving her car at Amscot.

IMO, I think the bag of trash from TonE's came later, and was added to cover up.

I think the worry was GA would smell the car, not see anything, the night of the gas cans returned.

The flies, I didn't think about how troublesome they would have become. What a nightmare.

I'm thinking that the smell became increasingly worse from the stain on the coverboard and carpet. Combine that with the heat in the trunk, together with the trash (which I think that one of the paper towels contained adipocere)... and that's trouble. The smell is horrible and will not go away... JMO.

 

[Curious Me]

snipped, bolded and underscored by me for content

I thoroughly agree! I think she placed her toward the back and placed the crate and white trash bag in front to hide her. The trash bag would have also served as an excuse for the odor. Using Eidetic's photos I made the following graphic:

(Note: Thank you Eidetic)

Can anyone tell me why that one strip of carpet was cut out for testing? Would that be the spot that wasn't cleaned?

 

[Reagan]

I still feel that she pushed Caylee to the back of the trunk and piled stuff in front of her to hide her, but I think that the tow yard trash bag was placed there after Caylee was out of the car, but over the spot where she had been laying. Any way to determine this?

Snipped:
I don't know how much credibility you want to give his statement, but GA told the FBI that the bag wasn't on top of where the stain was.

 

[Eidetic]

Snipped:
I don't know how much credibility you want to give his statement, but GA told the FBI that the bag wasn't on top of where the stain was.

The car had also been towed, it probably would have shifted in the process, especially if she had little in her trunk.

We have an emergency roadside kit and a case of Snapple tea we haven't brought in the house yet, they are always clunking around back there and that is just turning corners etc. Gross, just gave myself another visual of Caylee :banghead:

 

[Eidetic]

Can anyone tell me why that one strip of carpet was cut out for testing? Would that be the spot that wasn't cleaned?

Here is a sad little picture of a close up of the back piece they cut from the wheel cover. It appears someone hadn't been able to clean this area so well :sick:

To me, it looks as if they removed the treated layer (shiny/reflective appearance) of the bottom of the spare tire cover and exposed the stain trapped between the carpet and treated layer.

 

[Eidetic]

Since one of the experts said the decomp was from 2.6 days after death that would be on the 20th. They knew there was no body in the car after the 27th because the car was left locked at Amscot. If she removed the body after the 20th there would be more than 2.6 days of decomp. I would imagine. Plus I am thinking KC waited until the body came out of rigor when she was capable of handling her. Bodies do not stay together for very long in a hot Florida climate, plus the flies would be swarming all around her car trunk. Explain that to TL. KC got rid of Caylee as soon as she was able to. Her efforts with the shovel on the 18th tells us she was trying to do it then. JMO

Maybe this is when Caylee was actually placed in the trunk, thus the confusion over 2.6 days and the timeline given in the report. She could have had her stashed some place first, and the shovel was used to move her from that spot there was soil in the trunk as well which makes me believe Caylee had been in a make shift shallow grave somewhere.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G7bGBUlx2M"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G7bGBUlx2M[/ame]

 

[LambChop]

Maybe this is when Caylee was actually placed in the trunk, thus the confusion over 2.6 days and the timeline given in the report. She could have had her stashed some place first, and the shovel was used to move her from that spot there was soil in the trunk as well which makes me believe Caylee had been in a make shift shallow grave somewhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G7bGBUlx2M

Eidetic that ad for Travelers is great. I retired from Travelers two years ago but had not seen this ad yet. O/T

So it was 2.6 days of decomp they figure in the trunk and she could have been somewhere else but I think given that rigor starts after 3rd hour of death and can last up to 72 hours, if Caylee was in the trunk KC probably did not remove her. Remember KC kept backing her car into the garage those first couple of days. I can't believe if Caylee was in the yard or playhouse that those Yorkies would not have alerted CA or GA that something was wrong. That is why I think Caylee may have been in the trunk until the 19th or 20th.

Oh, heck....why doesn't KC just tell us. You know she wants to in a round about way. JMO

 

[Eidetic]

Good point Lambchop. Maybe the yorkies were calling attention to her that would be a good reason to get nervous and move her. Mom leaves a voicemail "Casey, can we see Caylee, we really miss her. Tinker and Tilly keep sniffing around her things outside, they don't want to come back inside!"

Or something like "Something stinks in the yard" maybe she even straight out asked her if she changed the yard because she noticed something was different.

 

[Just Jayla]

According to this note in the docs it appears the vacuums are not going to be examined.

page 22: http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/GASTANK-DUCTTAPEEVIDENCE.pdf

Page 14... only chloroform was found… no other chemicals were found... so no cleaners were used

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...y-anthony-documents-102408,0,5346622.htmlpage

I am wondering if the white fluid could be Bluestar. The MSDS does not seem to specify the liquid color, though. The white could also be the glue used to hold the carpet to the board, though it would be mighty runny glue.

Whatever fluid was spilled to create the big stain, there had to be quite a bit-It wicked all the way down to the board below. The bottom of the board is what your carpet matting and even a subfloor would look like if you removed your carpet in a place where a spill had occured. As someone mentioned before though, and given that this car went through both LA and KC, this could be water, beer, who knows. Interesting though, the photo of the little "biopsied" piece of the cardboard, looks like blood or decomp fluid.