2010.04.26 - Tommy's Lawyer: "Tommy knows what happened"

[dodie20]

It's possible that Tommy is providing the "proof of life" or "proof of death" that was discussed last night. He can lead them to Haleigh without admitting that he was involved--by throwing Joe O or his sister or someone else under the bus. The fact that he is recanting the 10 pm mobile home visit story is a pretty good indicator that either (1) someone in LE caught him in that lie, perhaps as a result of the polygraph or (2) what was going on at 10 pm is going to turn out to be very important.

There are four possibilities:

1. He was directly involved in what happened to Haleigh (her disappearance or death).
2. He was a witness to what happened and has been covering up.
3. He was involved after the fact and has been covering up.
4. He was told by someone involved what happened and he has been covering up for that person (e.g., Misty).

Any way you slice it, he's in it up to his neck. The fact that the lawyer has walked out on him once suggests that the lawyer knows he's in it, but is perhaps trying to help Tommy get a decent deal and help LE close the case.

I think the 10 o'clock time is important. On the 911, Misty stated that as the time that she had last seen Haleigh. But what should've been a quick 2 word answer, took her 17 words to spit out. So yes, my guess is that 10o'clock is very important & Tommy is trying to remove himself.

 

[aoibhinn]

When I read his comment I thought that maybe, with the right questions, a failing answer in the LDT can give the investigators just as much information as a passing answer (supposing the test can be trusted to identify lying correctly, which is not a given). Say, if Tommy gets asked, "Is the body in the river?", and he says yes, and passes. The investigators figure out that the body is in the river. Then say that Tommy gets asked the same question, says no, and fails. The investigators proceed to make the same inference. If several suspects have a similar pattern in regards to this question the police may be pretty confident that the river has something to do with it.

I believe you are spot on with your understanding of these multiple lie detector tests the POI's have been subjected to. They will be on the lookout for signs of deception (I watch too much NG) and they would most likely cross reference the collective results. By a process of elimination, they should be able to ask more leading questions. Narrow it down, so to speak.

 

[passionflower]

I think the 10 o'clock time is important. On the 911, Misty stated that as the time that she had last seen Haleigh. But what should've been a quick 2 word answer, took her 17 words to spit out. So yes, my guess is that 10o'clock is very important & Tommy is trying to remove himself.

10 is important.......last time MC saw Haleigh..............10pm bt ToC
could this be Haleigh's disposal time? (hate writing that)
TODeath? Something about 10 stayed in their drugged up minds.

 

[Skully]

When Tommy first came out with the "I went over there at 10pm and Misty wasn't home" statement, I thought he was trying to make her responsible for Haleigh's disappearance, but now in hind sight, I think he was trying to clear her of the deed. If she wasn't there, she would be liable for neglect but not murder, some one else had to have done it. But now after listening to the tapes, and how he loves his sister, he was giving her an out. Unfortunately he put himself in the position of being the last one at the MH at 10pm without a witness to say he never went in and took Haleigh out. So he has to recant. I always thought it was the dumbest statement he could have made.

 

[dodie20]

When Tommy first came out with the "I went over there at 10pm and Misty wasn't home" statement, I thought he was trying to make her responsible for Haleigh's disappearance, but now in hind sight, I think he was trying to clear her of the deed. If she wasn't there, she would be liable for neglect but not murder, some one else had to have done it. But now after listening to the tapes, and how he loves his sister, he was giving her an out. Unfortunately he put himself in the position of being the last one at the MH at 10pm without a witness to say he never went in and took Haleigh out. So he has to recant. I always thought it was the dumbest statement he could have made.

I also thought it was a dumb statement. Why put yourself @ a crime scene? My guess was that LE had something incriminating against him-maybe a witness who saw him there-& he was forced to explain it away. I do not however, think he was trying to help Misty. They may love each other, but there's some bad blood there. I think he was trying to put the blame on her either because she was guilty, or because he felt the heat & wanted it off. Also, he knew that LE believed Misty wasn't at the trailer, so he just went with that.

 

[Skully]

I also thought it was a dumb statement. Why put yourself @ a crime scene? My guess was that LE had something incriminating against him-maybe a witness who saw him there-& he was forced to explain it away. I do not however, think he was trying to help Misty. They may love each other, but there's some bad blood there. I think he was trying to put the blame on her either because she was guilty, or because he felt the heat & wanted it off. Also, he knew that LE believed Misty wasn't at the trailer, so he just went with that.

You could be right, the rumor was according to LE that Misty wasn't home, so the big question they had to ask was.... WAS THE DOOR BRICKED? He said there weren't any lights on, no TV, no one answered the door. If that is true, then the staging was after 10pm, if he is lying about being there at 10pm, what made him say it? He had to know that statement put him in a very serious position, he was at the crime scene. Ir was it that he wasn't thinking and just blurted it out, like " I went there and she wasn't home" and then he realized he just stepped in a big pile of pooooo.... Cause the next question is, was the door bricked, did you go inside, where were the kids, in bed or out with her? So I hope for his sake, he tells the truth, cause he is burned at this point.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I think the 10 o'clock time is important. On the 911, Misty stated that as the time that she had last seen Haleigh. But what should've been a quick 2 word answer, took her 17 words to spit out. So yes, my guess is that 10o'clock is very important & Tommy is trying to remove himself.

That bloated response is a dead giveaway in statement analysis. It might even have been that Tommy was trying to remove himself when he said he was at the mobile home at 10 pm if that is when Haleigh was being dumped in the river (if that in fact is what happened.) It may well be, though, that he knows no one was home at that time, because they were out doing their terrible deed, or that he knew that Misty was playing the role of the sleeping babysitter or cleaning up the place because the other two were taking care of the body. If Tommy thought things through at all, he had to be pretty sure that nothing much was going on after 10 pm, because neighbors and passers-by could have noticed lights, noise, cars, or disturbances of some sort after that time. So my guess: Somewhere around 10 pm, someone took Haleigh or Haleigh's body from the mobile home, and someone else stayed home with Junior to clean up and get ready to stage the scene for Ronald's return and the 911 call.

 

[Whisperer]

Yeah, Granny's timeline and her description of events looks more and more hinky..

 

[Whisperer]

Don't we have rc calling the landline at tommy's at nine 9:00pm though?

 

[elle1919]

Don't we have rc calling the landline at tommy's at nine 9:00pm though?

Yes, per Shoemaker statement here: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0909/21/ng.01.html

snip~TERRY SHOEMAKER, ATTORNEY FOR HALEIGH`S FATHER, RONALD CUMMINGS: Well, he`s kind of shocked that Misty`s brother went over there that evening. He said all along that he did call the house of Hank Jr. and asked him whether or not Misty was there. But he doesn`t -- he`s never said that he asked them to go look for her. He just asked if she was over there. And that was at about 9:00. So I think Hank Jr.`s timeline is a little off. ~end

 

[elle1919]

RC's phone records would show the exact time he called Tommy and Lyndsy's house, imo

 

[elle1919]

more~ GRACE: Did he talk to the brother?

SHOEMAKER: I don`t know who he spoke with. I know that when we were speaking with FDLE that a call came up and they questioned him about it and he said he called to ask if Misty was at their house at that time.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0909/21/ng.01.html

Misty stops taking calls at around 8:30...

RC calls Tommy and Lyndsy's around 9....FDLE asked why he called over there at that time and he stated to ask if Misty was there.

ETA....Who answered if Lyndsy was still at class?

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Yeah, if we had access to the phone records we would know a lot more. Given that LE seems to be doing a thorough job and the case has not been allowed to go cold, I think they've got a good circumstantial case. The only person I am sure is involved is Misty.

 

[Pegatha]

It's possible that Tommy is providing the "proof of life" or "proof of death" that was discussed last night. He can lead them to Haleigh without admitting that he was involved--by throwing Joe O or his sister or someone else under the bus. The fact that he is recanting the 10 pm mobile home visit story is a pretty good indicator that either (1) someone in LE caught him in that lie, perhaps as a result of the polygraph or (2) what was going on at 10 pm is going to turn out to be very important.

There are four possibilities:

1. He was directly involved in what happened to Haleigh (her disappearance or death).
2. He was a witness to what happened and has been covering up.
3. He was involved after the fact and has been covering up.
4. He was told by someone involved what happened and he has been covering up for that person (e.g., Misty).

Any way you slice it, he's in it up to his neck. The fact that the lawyer has walked out on him once suggests that the lawyer knows he's in it, but is perhaps trying to help Tommy get a decent deal and help LE close the case.

I think this is an excellent summation of how I feel as well. That's why his lawyers latest comments have me so excited that there will be a resolution to this awful situation. Why the changing stories. You either know nothing and have nothing to do with it, or pretend to be innocent and deny, deny, deny consistently. Or, they have some evidence or conflicting info that has caught Tommy in a lie and forced him to change his story. Why even state you know what happened if you are completely innocent. Which means there is information to be had and they will get it eventually.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

more~ GRACE: Did he talk to the brother?

SHOEMAKER: I don`t know who he spoke with. I know that when we were speaking with FDLE that a call came up and they questioned him about it and he said he called to ask if Misty was at their house at that time.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0909/21/ng.01.html

Misty stops taking calls at around 8:30...

RC calls Tommy and Lyndsy's around 9....FDLE asked why he called over there at that time and he stated to ask if Misty was there.

ETA....Who answered if Lyndsy was still at class?

Well, there's the start of a real timeline. Why else would Misty stop taking calls? She was up to something: partying with someone? already dealing with a dead or missing Haleigh? When RC can't get in contact with her, he calls Tommy's house. Tommy has to explain why he might have been seen over at the mobile home and he lies about RC asking him to go over there and lies about the time. LE has a fixed time for Ron's call. That opens up the question of what Tommy was doing between between 9 and 10. It also tells us that LE is working the phone call times; that suggests that whatever calls moved between Misty, Joe and Tommy may have boxed them in. And that Ron's involvement, one way or the other, can can gauged by his calls, and in particular the location they came from and the times they are made.

Many news accounts talk about Misty having company earlier in the evening (post AC man). Do we have any potential time markers for that? And any idea exactly who might have been over there>

 

[Baznme]

Well, there's the start of a real timeline. Why else would Misty stop taking calls? She was up to something: partying with someone? already dealing with a dead or missing Haleigh? When RC can't get in contact with her, he calls Tommy's house. Tommy has to explain why he might have been seen over at the mobile home and he lies about RC asking him to go over there and lies about the time. LE has a fixed time for Ron's call. That opens up the question of what Tommy was doing between between 9 and 10. It also tells us that LE is working the phone call times; that suggests that whatever calls moved between Misty, Joe and Tommy may have boxed them in. And that Ron's involvement, one way or the other, can can gauged by his calls, and in particular the location they came from and the times they are made.

Many news accounts talk about Misty having company earlier in the evening (post AC man). Do we have any potential time markers for that? And any idea exactly who might have been over there>

If I remember right, there was an accounting for Tommy and his kids over while all the kids played in the yard around 5:30 pm? I'll try to find that in the early posts.

 

[Baznme]

If I remember right, there was an accounting for Tommy and his kids over while all the kids played in the yard around 5:30 pm? I'll try to find that in the early posts.

Here it is although it doesn't state the time.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Misty C. #4

From Misty's LDT.

 

[elle1919]

Well, there's the start of a real timeline. Why else would Misty stop taking calls? She was up to something: partying with someone? already dealing with a dead or missing Haleigh? When RC can't get in contact with her, he calls Tommy's house. Tommy has to explain why he might have been seen over at the mobile home and he lies about RC asking him to go over there and lies about the time. LE has a fixed time for Ron's call. That opens up the question of what Tommy was doing between between 9 and 10. It also tells us that LE is working the phone call times; that suggests that whatever calls moved between Misty, Joe and Tommy may have boxed them in. And that Ron's involvement, one way or the other, can can gauged by his calls, and in particular the location they came from and the times they are made.

Many news accounts talk about Misty having company earlier in the evening (post AC man). Do we have any potential time markers for that? And any idea exactly who might have been over there>

Hey there. A little off topic and I hate to do that but I also hate to leave people hanging when they ask me a question. : ) BBM We have an approximate time but it's not given to us by LE on when the AC Man was at the home. I am relying HEAVILY on these phone records because to me it is clear that none of these characters can remember the time. RC calls Misty around 5 or 5:30 and ASKS TO TALK TO THE AC MAN, Misty takes the phone to him and RC talks to him a bit and then they hang up. Misty makes it very clear that when the AC Man was over she took the kids outside to play and left the Repairman to do his work. She states she was not in the house with him.

I have a lot of ideas about things surrounding the AC Guy, he will be very important. He is either going to confirm or deny if Haleigh was alive around 5 or 5:30, RC's phone records will show the exact time he called Misty's phone and asked to talked to AC Man. AC Man will be able to corroborate his conversation with RC....if it happened....I am wondering if RC asked the AC Man who all was at his house....and this triggered a fight between RC and Misty and that is why GGS was sent over to the trailer, to check and see if Tommy was gone. Lyndsy said Tommy made dinner for her kids on the night Haleigh went missing, so when did he do that? What time did he leave Misty's that day? Did he want Misty to watch his kids for a bit because he was experiencing withdrawal from no drugs and Misty asked RC and RC said no? I have so many questions...

 

[MADJGNLAW]

I pray today is the day that some arrest warrants will be served. I wish we knew if PCS has handed over the murder case to the State Attorney's Office yet. From listening to the audios that Simon released yesterday it sounds as if Tommy's attorney may of been working up a plea deal for Tommy. The river has been searched, items were found, and LE declared the case to be a Homicide. What is next? I feel if LE names their several POI's maybe they will get a little more out the ones that are involved in Haleigh's disappearance to save their own skin.

"Snip" http://www.artharris.com/2010/04/30/exclusive-tommy-croslin-says-he-lied-to-cops/#more-4276

How might Tommy’s admission he lied to police affect any plea deal his veteran defense lawyer James Werter might make?

While law enforcement had no official comment on Tommy's flip flop, I’m told investigators aren’t buying his new spin and still aim to use the 10 p.m. drop by in the time line–all part of Putnam County Sheriff Hardy’s efforts to make a murder case as airtight as it can be with no body, no weapon and no confession, before he hands it over to the State Attorneys’ homicide prosecutors.
Sources tell me a grand jury would likely be empaneled to hear a pitch for probable cause then they believe they have enough to obtain arrest warrants.
Sources say he’s admitted going over there, much later.

Tommy has provided new details that sparked the police search of the St. John’s River April 13, according to his lawyer, James Werter, who took the new information to the State Attorney after he talked to Tommy about the results of a private polygraph we reported he failed, but Werter has refused to discuss.

 

[Skully]

It wouldn't surprise me if it takes to the end of the month for everything to pull together and get some warrants and arrests. I would say even to May 27th or beyond. I think Tommy knows enough and has said enough that this case will go before a Grand Jury. JMO