2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

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The amount of money paid between client and attorney is PRIVELGED. There's no way KH is going to know the amount is true or not. Does he have a copy of the contract???

MOO

Mel

While TH is not on my top favorite people list, it could be that her family ''put up their property'' as collateral (aka loan) for defence fund for their daughter....like you I think that KH has no right to know where the $ came from in this instance. (After all, didn't he cut her loose? RO and divorce papers?):croc:
 
[bbm]

he hasn't been able to work f/t since his son went missing so I can see why his funds might be low
in addition to that, he probably had to pay out of pocket for a lot of expenses that he otherwise wouldn't have had had he been able to live in his own home
he also (presumably) paid the mortgage and utility bills while TH & her parents stayed in the house

he's entitled to know where the money came from and if she hid assets while living on his dime; he's also entitled to know if he will be liable for any loan(s) she took out

if it's a gift from her parents, then he won't be on the line for it but I can tell ya I'd be as annoyed as all get-out to discover she & others were living rent and bill free off of me when they actually had access to a secret fund of money

MOO
Thank you!

Also, let's remember that he has to pay day care expenses for the baby now. Probably looking at a monthly fee of at least $600, probably more if he needs something extra secure. That's not chump change. His attorney's fees are no doubt already in the $$thousands.
 
Could TH have put a lien on the property to help pay for legal fees? Curious as a friend of mine just did this after her husband walked out.
 
Could TH have put a lien on the property to help pay for legal fees? Curious as a friend of mine just did this after her husband walked out.

Her name would have to be on the deed. It's not, so I really doubt this was the way she got it.

Best-
Herding Cats
 
Portland-based child custody attorney Laura Rackner, who represented Kaine in Monday's filing, also wrote in court documents that if Terri borrowed the money, and if that loan is considered a marital liability, then the cash should be considered a shared marital asset. That, said Rackner, would make Terri Horman responsible for giving half of the $350,000 to Kaine Horman for his "attorney fees and costs."

Meanwhile, Rackner said Kaine "does not have sufficient income or resources to pay for these legal services and meet his other financial obligations for the children and himself."

If Terri contests the motion, then Kaine's attorney asks that Terri pay his attorney fees for filing the motion.

snip

http://www.katu.com/news/local/99262529.html
 
Thank you!

Also, let's remember that he has to pay day care expenses for the baby now. Probably looking at a monthly fee of at least $600, probably more if he needs something extra secure. That's not chump change. His attorney's fees are no doubt already in the $$thousands.

RO's and divorce paper filings are not a really big ticket item. She's going to need bigger dollars for her defence.
 
It seems to me that his motion is both a request that she pay his fees and a request for distribution of half of what she has if it is considered a marital asset. But, I have not read the motion, just the reports.
175k is a heck of a lot for fees in a disso. Ridiculously large, unless you're talking about millionaires.

And many years of battling it out of hidden assets, properties, bank accounts in other countries, etc...

Way over the top for a divorce/cutody. A few hundred here and you are done. Not even into thousands.
 
With the mention of "considers it marital liability" I would bet he knows or suspects that she borrowed the money and is concerned that he'll be on the hook for it since they're not divorced yet. No way would I want to pay lawyers to defend my soon-to-be ex-wife against charges she tried to murder me. Not to mention the other matter.

This is what I thought when I read it as well. Also, aren't his attorney fees only those that relate to the divorce? Could he possibly be using the argument that since the divorce is directly because of Terri's actions and she apparently has plenty of money, that she should assume partial liability for his expenses in the matter?:waitasec:

Or is he asking for half of that money because it is considered a marital asset, since they are still legally married? I am confuzzled...
 
Thanks for this. It just seems like Kaine and his attorney are going beyond what is reasonable, IMO. He wanted and filed for divorce, he should pay for his attorney. Does anyone know if Terri file a counter-claim, demanding he pay for her divorce attorney? I am curious, since she has no income... If she didn't, it's very ironic, given her circumstances...

And WHY did he want a divorce?? Cos he had no choice due to HER behaviour putting his and his sons lives( and possibly worse) at risk. If it wasnt for her actions in this he wouldnt be in this situation. :furious:
 
Gwen, sorry, I disagree. Throughout this case it's been obvious that Kaine selects the bus, modifies the bus to his demands, paints the bus his colors, and drives the bus. I think he's driving this.

And if he can't afford to support himself and children on his salary, when before he could support 3 kids, wife, and self, then perhaps that baby needs to be in a more stable, financially and otherwise, environment.

He's opened a can of worms here. So, if say, her parents gave her the $, and he claims that he's entitled to know where it came from, and entitled to half of it, then voila! He's put his assets on the "half is mine" chopping block, too.

He owns the house in his own name, but Terri took care of it (and did a good job from the photos on her FB) and therefore contributed not only to its maintenance but also to its increased value, so she's entitled to the fruits of her labor, some attorney could argue. In fact, if someone wanted to play KH's game, they could file with the court for a full accounting of his monies--source and where they'rer spent.

In fact, an attorney could also approach the court and given the circumstances ask that a court-appointed auditor be appointed to examine both parties' finances, and a court-appointed trustee to administer use of those funds. It could make for an exciting court session!

If I were that attorney, I'd have another attorney file an amicus curiae brief, from the family law/child protection side of things. Since the monies and sources thereof are in dispute, and KH has alleged in a court document--unless he perjured himself--that he can't afford to care for his child, then someone needs to have overview and partial control of funds on behalf of the minor child, Baby K.

In fact, court-appointed auditor and trustee should be given powers back to the day Kyron disappeared, IMHO. Given KH's allegation of his lack of financial capability to care for his child, someone needs to look after the interests of that child and ensure that monies are accounted for and spent with her best interests at heart.

However, I'm wondering if TH's attorney is sly enough to just sit and wait, and let KH spin out this and that. What kH continues to do is to reveal more of himself, and he also is spinning out information and actions that could be very useful in various courts.

What would be interesting--a court-appointed auditor who found that KH's retirement, benefits, salary made him capable of supporting his child (children), but he submitted a court proffer that was, in essence, a lie.That would really set off sparks.

Right now, the quieter TH and her side keep, the smarter her lawyer looks. And the more she listens to him and stays out of the media, the smarter she looks for listening to her attorney, IMHO. Now, I'm stretching it to call TH "smart", because (personal opinion here) she married KH, the third of three mates that just weren't suitable, and she also married knowing that only he owned the marital home. Ahem.

Sorry for the length, but this is a complicated issue, and I think it has potential repercussions far beyond "I hate TH, yeaaa Kaine!" and the personality issues. At present, TH has not been charged with a crime, so she & KH are equal in terms of marital assets, most especially *his* as he has the high-paying job.

Meanwhile, an aside--the MFH plot. A court-ordered and controlled audit could be extended to later find out if TH suddenly spent a lot of $ about the time the landscaper alleges the plot (if the cops don't already have that info, which they should have by this point). And, how do we know that late appearance of the landscaper wasn't an appearance in this made-for-TV mess, paid for by someone who wanted to discredit TH? Just spitballin' it.

Meanwhile, how about Kyron? How about a plea from parents on *his* behalf? People have raged about TH being concerned about $ when she was tossed out of her home with no job, etc., well sauce/goose/gander. Now KH is the one concerned about $. Sauce/goose/gander.

At this point, none of them are earning any blue ribbons, IMHO. Poor Kyron.

You're assuming alot of this correct? I really took offense to this post, and I'm trying to figure out why. I generally side with the woman in a situation, but there's something about TH that doesn't sit right with me. Didn't she request money from Kaine to move? I think I may have read that somewhere. Would that make me angry, that I was funding her move and she was paying an attorney $350,000 to defend herself against a MFH plot against me, and the disappearance of my child??? I think. Have we heard her in any way, shape or form ask for help finding "Poor Kyron" no she hasn't. She just stood there with that look on her face, whatever it was (still confuses me). Yes, she kept the house clean (and actually it's probably less valuable in this economy than when he bought it) while she was plotting a MFH against her husband (alledgedly). I don't think his intention is to get 1/2 of money, did you see that somewhere? I think he just wants to know how the heck she got this amount of money, and did it have to do with Kyron's disappearance? Or was it the MFH money? The only thing I question in this situation is the fact that something wasn't done by DY and TY BEFORE this happened to Kyron if they didn't trust Terri to begin with. I would be doing absolutely the same thing Kaine is doing to get my son back, and yes I have heard them plead for Kyron, the only one who hasn't is Terri. I personally never had the opportunity to be a stay at home Mom and honestly maybe Terri just had TOO much time on her hands. Who drives around with a sick child in their car and then works out at the gym instead of taking her home?
 
Gwen, sorry, I disagree. Throughout this case it's been obvious that Kaine selects the bus, modifies the bus to his demands, paints the bus his colors, and drives the bus. I think he's driving this.

And if he can't afford to support himself and children on his salary, when before he could support 3 kids, wife, and self, then perhaps that baby needs to be in a more stable, financially and otherwise, environment.

He's opened a can of worms here. So, if say, her parents gave her the $, and he claims that he's entitled to know where it came from, and entitled to half of it, then voila! He's put his assets on the "half is mine" chopping block, too.

He owns the house in his own name, but Terri took care of it (and did a good job from the photos on her FB) and therefore contributed not only to its maintenance but also to its increased value, so she's entitled to the fruits of her labor, some attorney could argue. In fact, if someone wanted to play KH's game, they could file with the court for a full accounting of his monies--source and where they'rer spent.

In fact, an attorney could also approach the court and given the circumstances ask that a court-appointed auditor be appointed to examine both parties' finances, and a court-appointed trustee to administer use of those funds. It could make for an exciting court session!

If I were that attorney, I'd have another attorney file an amicus curiae brief, from the family law/child protection side of things. Since the monies and sources thereof are in dispute, and KH has alleged in a court document--unless he perjured himself--that he can't afford to care for his child, then someone needs to have overview and partial control of funds on behalf of the minor child, Baby K.

In fact, court-appointed auditor and trustee should be given powers back to the day Kyron disappeared, IMHO. Given KH's allegation of his lack of financial capability to care for his child, someone needs to look after the interests of that child and ensure that monies are accounted for and spent with her best interests at heart.

However, I'm wondering if TH's attorney is sly enough to just sit and wait, and let KH spin out this and that. What kH continues to do is to reveal more of himself, and he also is spinning out information and actions that could be very useful in various courts.

What would be interesting--a court-appointed auditor who found that KH's retirement, benefits, salary made him capable of supporting his child (children), but he submitted a court proffer that was, in essence, a lie.That would really set off sparks.

Right now, the quieter TH and her side keep, the smarter her lawyer looks. And the more she listens to him and stays out of the media, the smarter she looks for listening to her attorney, IMHO. Now, I'm stretching it to call TH "smart", because (personal opinion here) she married KH, the third of three mates that just weren't suitable, and she also married knowing that only he owned the marital home. Ahem.

Sorry for the length, but this is a complicated issue, and I think it has potential repercussions far beyond "I hate TH, yeaaa Kaine!" and the personality issues. At present, TH has not been charged with a crime, so she & KH are equal in terms of marital assets, most especially *his* as he has the high-paying job.

Meanwhile, an aside--the MFH plot. A court-ordered and controlled audit could be extended to later find out if TH suddenly spent a lot of $ about the time the landscaper alleges the plot (if the cops don't already have that info, which they should have by this point). And, how do we know that late appearance of the landscaper wasn't an appearance in this made-for-TV mess, paid for by someone who wanted to discredit TH? Just spitballin' it.

Meanwhile, how about Kyron? How about a plea from parents on *his* behalf? People have raged about TH being concerned about $ when she was tossed out of her home with no job, etc., well sauce/goose/gander. Now KH is the one concerned about $. Sauce/goose/gander.

At this point, none of them are earning any blue ribbons, IMHO. Poor Kyron.

Or maybe Terri could simply spend less time on facebook or nattering with her mates or sexting her guys and get a job to help support HER daughter. After all if she has enough money to give her lawyer hundreds of thousands..surely she can spend some on her own flesh and blood which would help Kaine.

But then this all appears to be about Terri. I wonder if she even remembers her daughter and what it was like to hold her. And then maybe if she does..she will know how Kaine feels not being able to hold Kyron :furious:
 
You're assuming alot of this correct? I really took offense to this post, and I'm trying to figure out why. I generally side with the woman in a situation, but there's something about TH that doesn't sit right with me. Didn't she request money from Kaine to move? I think I may have read that somewhere. Would that make me angry, that I was funding her move and she was paying an attorney $350,000 to defend herself against a MFH plot against me, and the disappearance of my child??? I think. Have we heard her in any way, shape or form ask for help finding "Poor Kyron" no she hasn't. She just stood there with that look on her face, whatever it was (still confuses me). Yes, she kept the house clean (and actually it's probably less valuable in this economy than when he bought it) while she was plotting a MFH against her husband (alledgedly). I don't think his intention is to get 1/2 of money, did you see that somewhere? I think he just wants to know how the heck she got this amount of money, and did it have to do with Kyron's disappearance? Or was it the MFH money? The only thing I question in this situation is the fact that something wasn't done by DY and TY BEFORE this happened to Kyron if they didn't trust Terri to begin with. I would be doing absolutely the same thing Kaine is doing to get my son back, and yes I have heard them plead for Kyron, the only one who hasn't is Terri. I personally never had the opportunity to be a stay at home Mom and honestly maybe Terri just had TOO much time on her hands. Who drives around with a sick child in their car and then works out at the gym instead of taking her home?

Lol yea she asked Kaine for money to help her move and yet she has all the money for her lawyer. Go and figure
 
And WHY did he want a divorce?? Cos he had no choice due to HER behaviour putting his and his sons lives( and possibly worse) at risk. If it wasnt for her actions in this he wouldnt be in this situation. :furious:

I agree with you 50/50 -- could it be that he was planning a divorce prior to the disappearance of course the disappearance fast tracked his decision (for more than the right reasons).
 
It will be interesting to find out if this is true. That is one heck of a huge legal fee for someone who hasn't even been arrested yet. This can't be just for a divorce and the MFH plot, can it?

I don't understand this, unless the lawyer is greedy as all get out. He may be a great lawyer, but geez, Louise, TH and her husband are average, middle class people, I thought. As it is, the average middle class person is hard pressed to pay the fees of a good lawyer (one who is not famous), no matter what kind of case it is.

If someone is arrested for first degree murder, I can see them paying a fee like that if they can afford it, especially if it is a death penalty case. Lawyers will charge what they think the traffic will bear.
 
A defense attorney who requires this much moolah in advance must not have much faith in his client's story. He is in it for the long run and expects to spend a lot of time and money defending her. Doesn't look good for Terri.

Every criminal defense attorney I have ever met charges a flat fee, which is nonrefundable, for his services. They do not charge a retainer, bill against it, and expect the pot to be replenished. The reason is that so often the defendant goes to prison and has no way to pay his legal bill. Another reason is that most criminal defendants are not rich enough to pay a private attorney for representation. If they do, their extended families usually come up with the money -- the full amount. It's sad, really, because their families are so often spending their last dimes on a crook. They refinance their homes, plunder their retirement accounts, borrow from every Tom, Dick and Harry ... basically impoverish themselves because they believe the defendant's claims of innocence, which are frequently bogus.

I'm sorry I'm getting on my soapbox here, but I am just so tired of criminals who don't give a carp about what their actions do their immediate and extended families and of lawyers who overcharge clients, who hire the pricey lawyers because they are so frightened that if they don't get the very best lawyer, they will be convicted. These clients, who are part of the general public, have no idea how to find a great attorney, other than by choosing the one who gets the most favorable publicity or who runs the most ads on t.v.

I didn't expect this. I thought TH would hire the guy for some large-ish amount of money to defend her until she is arrested (if she is). Maybe in the neighborhood of $25K -- since he didn't have to do much work pre-arrest.

I wonder what this gigantic legal fee covers. If this is true, I think she is guilty as sin. No normal, thinking, halfway intelligent person would pay that much money if they didn't know they would become a criminal defendant and be charged with a Very Serious Crime and most likely would be put away for a Very Long Time.

Unless they are rich ... I can see a rich person paying a ton of money. I mean, what's a few hundred thousand, among the multi-millions?
 
I think the lawyer took it pro bono. This is going to be a very high profile case. I think he wants the infamy.

Also I love how Desiree and Kaine keep going on and on about Terri being a compulsive liar but then act like she tells the truth when it is something they wanted to believe.

She probably wrote "wow this guy has a $250,000 retainer fee" meaning "I lucked out" and then they took it as if she meant she paid it.
 
It will be interesting to find out if this is true. That is one heck of a huge legal fee for someone who hasn't even been arrested yet. This can't be just for a divorce and the MFH plot, can it?

I don't understand this, unless the lawyer is greedy as all get out. He may be a great lawyer, but geez, Louise, TH and her husband are average, middle class people, I thought. As it is, the average middle class person is hard pressed to pay the fees of a good lawyer (one who is not famous), no matter what kind of case it is.

If someone is arrested for first degree murder, I can see them paying a fee like that if they can afford it, especially if it is a death penalty case. Lawyers will charge what they think the traffic will bear.

maybe I'm an idjit (there's a very good chance of that lol), but I've always assumed she got Houze to defend her in connection with Kyron's dissappearance and a possible 1st degree murder charge -- with that little MFH thing being a kind of side issue. Does conspiracy to commit murder potentially bring the DP, too? Any way, that's what I've always thought. I guess I just assumed that the attempted sting made her realize that they were going after her for it all, and had been all along. But now that you mention it, the timing could indicate she hired him *just* for the MFH thing.
 
It seems to me that his motion is both a request that she pay his fees and a request for distribution of half of what she has if it is considered a marital asset. But, I have not read the motion, just the reports.
175k is a heck of a lot for fees in a disso. Ridiculously large, unless you're talking about millionaires.

As I read the reports (wish we had the motion!), he is asking for the money to be deemed a marital asset or not, and if it his, he wants his half, including to use to pay his attorneys' fees for the divorce, etc. Not that it is actually costing him that much. jmoo

eta: nevah mind. I see we do have the motion
 
In the document, the lawyer is stating that this information came from written communication with a third party. We truly don't really know anything at all, and it's obvious neither does KH and his attorney.

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/0375_001.pdf

Can you imagine if the amount was exaggerated since it was written communication with this third party?

IMO, TH has no money since she needed money to move. TH can't possibly take out a loan as she has no job since 2007. I doubt very much she has given any TV interviews in order to get money. More then likely, TH doesn't have enough in a 401K plan at this point in her life. The only asset so far that seems viable would be the home that she shared with KH, but then not sure what she would be entitled to at this point since it is known he purchased the house 3 months prior and we don't know (unless known) that KH might be on the deed or has 50/50 rights to the house. The only other alternative would be the money came from her parents, but that is one "heck of a chuck of change" to have laying around somewhere. Even if her parents took out their 401K etc., before they could tap into it, this would be quite costly to them in penalties.

The only ones so far that gave TV interviews and now a Dateline show is KH, DY etc.
 
More then likely, on or at the time KH left the marital household, he took or moved all the money (checking and savings) so that TH had no access to the money. KH, IMO, is not the type to leave the money available for TH to get at.

IMO, KH knows this money didn't come from the money within the marriage as he took it all.
 
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