2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[mmmagique]

As outsiders we don't know what evidence the judge has been given.

 

[gliving]

Seems to me that if Kaine and his lawyer are using the alledged MFH plot plus the belief that Terri kidnapped and harmed Kyron as evidence that Terri cannot see her daughter, then doesn't a judge require some proof that these allegations are true? Or will the judge just take their word for it? That doesn't quite seem fair to me.

And if there is such strong evidence that she did these things, then why has she not been charged for it already? Oh, yeah, right..... there is no evidence! If there had been, the GJ would have indicted her already, if only on the MFH plot and waited for more evidence that she kidnapped Kyron and did whatever she did with/to him. They've got nothing.
JMO, of course, laced with a little common sense. I could be wrong, of course. These legal maneuverings are beyond my comprehension sometimes.

I'm nodding my head reading your post. The terms 'unimaginable harm' must be some type of legalese I'm not familiar with, as it seems vague and undefined. I'll ask in the attorney's thread.

 

[citigirl]

Seems to me that if Kaine and his lawyer are using the alledged MFH plot plus the belief that Terri kidnapped and harmed Kyron as evidence that Terri cannot see her daughter, then doesn't a judge require some proof that these allegations are true? Or will the judge just take their word for it? That doesn't quite seem fair to me.

And if there is such strong evidence that she did these things, then why has she not been charged for it already? Oh, yeah, right..... there is no evidence! If there had been, the GJ would have indicted her already, if only on the MFH plot and waited for more evidence that she kidnapped Kyron and did whatever she did with/to him. They've got nothing.
JMO, of course, laced with a little common sense. I could be wrong, of course. These legal maneuverings are beyond my comprehension sometimes.

I think they are waiting for the judge to ask for proof...they do not want to tip their hand before the January hearing...and they are hoping this request from Terri will make the judge require Terri to tip her hand.

You are right, though--they may have enough proof to convince the judge to keep Terri away from little K, but not enough to have her convicted in a criminal trial. I suspect that is exactly where they sit--all of the things that make many of us say Terri has poor judgment plus the MFH allegation plus the fact that she was the last person to see Kyron (that we know of) will probably be enough to keep baby K away from her for the time being.

 

[mmmagique]

I'm nodding my head reading your post. The terms 'unimaginable harm' must be some type of legalese I'm not familiar with, as it seems vague and undefined. I'll ask in the attorney's thread.

I could get my Black's Law Dictionary out, but I highly doubt this is a legal term.

 

[GrainneDhu]

He stated in the RO application that the police had given him probable cause to believe that Terri was involved in Kyron's disappearance. He stresses in this motion the criticality of the situation, yet doesn't mention the probable cause LE gave him. That's not only a change, that's a big change, IMO.



I'm looking only at Kyron's disappearance atm, because to me, that is far more an indicator that Terri should not be around the baby.

Kaine stated in the RO that LE gave him "probable cause" to believe Terri was involved in Kyron's disappearance. But in this document, in regards to Kyron's disappearance, his statement is weaker to me, far weaker, because lacking the previous info, it appears to be only a belief.

I'm just surprised his attorney would put through this document like that. I don't know if it was deliberate or an oversight, but either way, it shocks me.

This is the time to pull out the big guns and fight for your baby, but you leave out that you have probable cause in hand given to you directly by LE, and say only that you have a belief?

It's shocking and confusing to me. I hope we get more info to clarify it from Kaine or his attorney.

BeanE, it makes me wonder if, back when KH originally filed the petition for the TRO, he assumed that LE would provide evidence to the court if need be. It was a filing done in a hurry (as TROs often are).

And then, LE makes it clear they are not going to be providing evidence of any sort in order to protect the ongoing investigation.

That makes perfect sense from the point of view of LE: they addressed the most acute need to protect KH and Baby K but they don't want to endanger the Kyron investigation in any way.

From KH's point of view, he's been, well, not completely hung out to dry but certainly left in a difficult position by LE. I'm sure he doesn't want to endanger the Kyron investigation either but the refusal of LE to provide any evidence for the suspicions they (LE) shared with him leaves him in an uncomfortable position.

And hence, an adjustment of language in successive filings.

 

[Trt]

He stated in the RO application that the police had given him probable cause to believe that Terri was involved in Kyron's disappearance. He stresses in this motion the criticality of the situation, yet doesn't mention the probable cause LE gave him. That's not only a change, that's a big change, IMO.



I'm looking only at Kyron's disappearance atm, because to me, that is far more an indicator that Terri should not be around the baby.

Kaine stated in the RO that LE gave him "probable cause" to believe Terri was involved in Kyron's disappearance. But in this document, in regards to Kyron's disappearance, his statement is weaker to me, far weaker, because lacking the previous info, it appears to be only a belief.

I'm just surprised his attorney would put through this document like that. I don't know if it was deliberate or an oversight, but either way, it shocks me.

This is the time to pull out the big guns and fight for your baby, but you leave out that you have probable cause in hand given to you directly by LE, and say only that you have a belief?

It's shocking and confusing to me. I hope we get more info to clarify it from Kaine or his attorney.

IIRC, the probable cause statement in the RO petition ONLY related to the MFH. kaine repeatedly stated in that petition that HE believed that Terri was responsible for Kyron's disappearance. I'll have to go back through it, but I do not remember him stating LE gave him probable cause for anything other than
the MFH plot.

As well, Kaine has already prove Terri to be an imminent danger to him and baby K. It is Terri who is fighting (if you can call it that) for K, Kaine is simply responding (and reiterating) to her "fight" and how ludicrous it is for her to fight without saying anything.(just my little spin on things, lol)

jmo

 

[Trt]

The order that Kaine received was not a temporary restraining order. As such, at the ex parte hearing, he had to provide proof that Terri was an imminent danger to him and their joint child. When the judge signed the order, it was effective for a year. Terri had 30 days to try and get that order dismissed, but it was
not a standard TRO where an order is granted until a mandatory hearing where both sides present evidence. This is laid out in the document that stipulates what Terri's rights and responsibilities were in contesting the RO. I'll see if I can fish that one up. Jmo

 

[seeking truth]

Well it doesn't look like Kaine feels it will be in the best interests of baby K to have any form of parenting time with her mother. Until a lot of things happen. Sounds like he's really serious in his allegations. Wonder if he has any proof?

BBM

It is amazing what parental instincts will compel us to do to fight for the safety of our vulnerable children. He has some proof frem LE regarding the fact that Terri wanted him murdered. He also had reason to believe she is involved in whatever happened to his son, Kyron. If it is just his gut, that is more than enough reason to protect Baby K.

Jo, I think that your wording is very tame compared to how Kaine feels about Terri getting anywhere near their child, even if it is supervised.

There is no doubt that Kaine is intensely serious about fighting for the safety of his remaining child.

My opinions.

 

[seeking truth]

I hope our legal beagles are here. I'd love to hear them weigh in on this. I find it interesting that it sounds like Kaine is saying they are not ready to address this, or am I reading the document wrong?
Because I thought they were ready to address this 3 months ago.

I think Kaine addressed it immediately, when he requested and was granted the Restraining Order, keeping Terri away from their baby and from himself.

To him, I would imagine, her pushing it then, now, or later, will evoke the same response from him:

He will fight with everything possible to make sure that this woman has no contact with their vulnerable child. Ever.

MY Opinion.

 

[BeanE]

IIRC, the probable cause statement in the RO petition ONLY related to the MFH. kaine repeatedly stated in that petition that HE believed that Terri was responsible for Kyron's disappearance. I'll have to go back through it, but I do not remember him stating LE gave him probable cause for anything other than
the MFH plot.

As well, Kaine has already prove Terri to be an imminent danger to him and baby K. It is Terri who is fighting (if you can call it that) for K, Kaine is simply responding (and reiterating) to her "fight" and how ludicrous it is for her to fight without saying anything.(just my little spin on things, lol)

jmo

Trt, I posted it right in my post that you responded to.

Here it is again. See where he says LE gave him probable cause to believe the two statements (Kyron's disappearance and the mfh) are true?

That's why I'm so confused that now, it's just a 'belief'. If he has evidence, probable cause, directly from LE, right in his hand, then it doesn't make sense - to me - that this has been watered to just a 'belief', and that probable cause from LE excised, when this is the time to come out guns blazing, fighting to protect his baby.

I don't know if there are some legal considerations here for leaving it out, or if it was an oversight, or what.

"I believe Respondent is involved in the disappearance of my son Kyron who has been missing since June 4, 2010.

snip

The police have provided me with probable cause to believe the above two statements to be true."

Restraining order application page 2 of 6 (PDF page 11), item 3
http://www.kptv.com/download/2010/0708/24187664.pdf

 

[seeking truth]

BBM. If he already has proof, it begs the question why he needs so much time to gather proof (depositions etc).

I notice this document doesn't mention anything about LE and probable cause.

Kaine is fighting for his child's safety and well-being. He is wise to take as much time as the court will grant to prepare a response.

We are discussing a real live person, a baby, who could be placed in the care of a woman who is, to say the least, unstable. In most custody cases, that involve any type of violence, or allegations of such, a psychiatric evaluation is normally required. Has there been talk of that? Would Terri submit to one?

Just some thoughts on why Kaine is being thorough. This is how loving, protective parents respond.

My OPINIONS.

 

[Billylee]

Okay, I'm going to talk in lay terms her because IANAL. Terri's request is only for "supervised vistitation" with BabyK. According to our in house attorneys, the judge most likely would have granted this without any psych eval of Terri. The psych eval would have been performed in February when they meet back on the custody issues within the disso.

But, the way I'm reading Kaine's response, is that he will not even give supervised visitation to Terri unless she has a psych eval.

Is that correct? If that is what he's saying, is that a decision for the judge to make as to whether or not there should be a psych eval for Terri, not for custody issues, but for supervised visitation. Anyone know?

 

[SurfieTX]

In my opinion, this has very little to do with baby K. This is all about strategy. Houze petitioned for an "expeditious hearing" as a means for discovery. Rackner knew this and so did LE. Therefore, Kaine has to dance around the wording in the RO in order to protect the investigation. At the same time, Kaine is using this motion to his advantage too (coincidentally by dancing around the wording in the RO) insomuch as to get Terri on record or ancillary information about Terri on record. As well, I do think that Kaine is worried that Terri might get some visitation with baby K prior to trial, and he definitely does not want that.

All of this legal jousting, to me, points to an impending criminal trial. The lawyers know it, Kaine and Desiree know it, and so does Terri.

 

[krowdkat]

Billylee, the way I read it, Kaine is simply asking the judge to put off any rulings inre to this emergency request of TH for supervised visits until after the abatement period is lifted. He wants the same time she has been granted to prepare for ANY visitation orders (supervised or unsupervised).

 

[cluciano63]

I almost think that Kaine and his lawyer are buying time for LE to "catch up" to the point where they make an arrest...at which point they won't have to worry about any visitation. I don't think Kaine has learned anything new...time alone may have changed his belief as the to the liklihood of Kyron being "stashed" someplace.

 

[krowdkat]

I almost think that Kaine and his lawyer are buying time for LE to "catch up" to the point where they make an arrest...at which point they won't have to worry about any visitation. I don't think Kaine has learned anything new...time alone may have changed his belief as the to the liklihood of Kyron being "stashed" someplace.

This would make sense considering Staton has gone on the record just recently saying he hopes to have this investigation wrapped up by January or February 2011. I found his statement interesting considering the Judge abated the disso until then.

 

[citigirl]

In my opinion, this has very little to do with baby K. This is all about strategy. Houze petitioned for an "expeditious hearing" as a means for discovery. Rackner knew this and so did LE. Therefore, Kaine has to dance around the wording in the RO in order to protect the investigation. At the same time, Kaine is using this motion to his advantage too (coincidentally by dancing around the wording in the RO) insomuch as to get Terri on record or ancillary information about Terri on record. As well, I do think that Kaine is worried that Terri might get some visitation with baby K prior to trial, and he definitely does not want that.

All of this legal jousting, to me, points to an impending criminal trial. The lawyers know it, Kaine and Desiree know it, and so does Terri.

That makes sense. TH may not have an interest in seeing baby K at all...that would fit with her waiting this long to ask for visitation...

 

[For The Kids]

Seems to me that if Kaine and his lawyer are using the alledged MFH plot plus the belief that Terri kidnapped and harmed Kyron as evidence that Terri cannot see her daughter, then doesn't a judge require some proof that these allegations are true? Or will the judge just take their word for it? That doesn't quite seem fair to me.

And if there is such strong evidence that she did these things, then why has she not been charged for it already? Oh, yeah, right..... there is no evidence! If there had been, the GJ would have indicted her already, if only on the MFH plot and waited for more evidence that she kidnapped Kyron and did whatever she did with/to him. They've got nothing.
JMO, of course, laced with a little common sense. I could be wrong, of course. These legal maneuverings are beyond my comprehension sometimes.

I dunno..one of the cops said the other week the case is a lot further along than people think and that there will be a prosecution..which suggests to me they DO have some evidence.

JMO

 

[Chili Fries]

That makes sense. TH may not have an interest in seeing baby K at all...that would fit with her waiting this long to ask for visitation...

I think Terri genuinely wants to see her baby.

 

[citigirl]

I think Terri genuinely wants to see her baby.

Why do you think that? The only evidence I have seen is the Facebook postings, which I think is so much window dressing.

TH's actions since the attempted kidnapping of baby K at the gym daycare (detailed in the motion for contempt of the RO) of Kyron indicate indifference to her baby, not unusual in a narcissist. The sexting and romantic chase of her new friend, and her decision not to contest the R.O., suggest indifference to me...

Nothing indicates she wanted to provide a decent home for her baby...