2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[cj1132]

I'm not Carole, but I'll take a stab at it. There are many ways to communicate--written language, spoken language, smoke signals, picture symbols, body language, sign language, etc. I think the motions said written as to mean "in writing" versus "spoken" or "sign language" or any other type of communication. It was in "writing" the same way what you are reading right now is in "writing." Does that make sense? I think they are using "written" in a broader sense than your "paper and pencil" interpretation.

I agree with you. I think email is used so much now and it would be considered "in writing."

 

[believe09]

Regarding the 350K-would anyone like to lay bets that a network stepped up? Wonder what pictures are going to be sold in this case.....just sayin.

 

[PDXMom]

Terri is agreeing to go along with the dissolution of marriage part of the divorce (so they're no longer married) if Kaine will agree to and the Court approves an abatement, or a holding-over, of all the issues surrounding the divorce such as finances and custody. TH is contending that there's just too much else going on in their lives right now to be able to fairly assess and settle those issues.

While I think it's a strategic move to have her avoid any court interaction for the time being, I think the atty made some decent, legitimate points in support of their motion. Not sure how it will go, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were granted, at least in part.

What happens if Kaine doesn't agree to the abatement? I mean, why would he? What has he got to lose now?

 

[kappy50]

I'm not Carole, but I'll take a stab at it. There are many ways to communicate--written language, spoken language, smoke signals, picture symbols, body language, sign language, etc. I think the motions said written as to mean "in writing" versus "spoken" or "sign language" or any other type of communication. It was in "writing" the same way what you are reading right now is in "writing." Does that make sense? I think they are using "written" in a broader sense than your "paper and pencil" interpretation.

Thx's Gwen...I appreciate your response. All I know is what was stated in the motion in "writing"...now my old Funk and Wagnall's has been used a bunch of times...but it gives a great definition of written....only KH's attorney knows what she meant by written...not me...does it matter...a email verses something actually written with hand, may or maynot make a difference. To ME, it would....but thank you so much....I bet your penmanship is remarkable!

 

[Patty G]

Patty G--here is a copy of the letter sent by D.A. referring to earlier letter to seal (bbm):

Your Honor:

This confirms my discussion with you earlier this evening. After speaking with Mr. Bosworth and Ms. Rackner, I called you and informed you that, given the media coverage over the past long weekend, the Multnomah County Major Crimes Team could no longer stand by its assertion in my affidavit of July 2 that unsealing the sealed matters before you would undermine our on-going criminal investigation. I express no opinion on any position Terri Horman might have in the matter.

You told me of your intent to decide what further action was warranted after you reviewed the sealed documents when your court was open again on Thursday, July 8

Yours very truly,

Norman W. Frink
Chief Deputy District Attorney
Multnomah County, Oregon

If the evidence provided was good enough for the judge it is good enough for me.

But...the question about why she has not been charged for the MFH? I just don't get it, given the MFH was referred to again in the contempt motion.

I guess they'll charge her when they're good and ready. Won't be fast enough for some us!

Thanks, I read that letter when they unsealed the RO.

 

[PDXMom]

It seems to me that alarm bells started going off when the possibility that TMH paid $350,000 to her attorney. KH wants to know where the money came from in case it is a loan to TMH that he might be legally liable to help pay back. If so, he wants half of the loan money now.

He probably has concern that she has sold story/photos to media outlets too. Anybody have any ideas on what he could do about that?

I think maybe he has a hunch that it wasn't that much, but if he can catch her in another lie to another person, it tarnishes her image even further. I mean, it was in writing, so he has every right to question it. If it does turn out to be true and gained nefariously, then he wins as well.

 

[gwenabob]

Thx's Gwen...I appreciate your response. All I know is what was stated in the motion in "writing"...now my old Funk and Wagnall's has been used a bunch of times...but it gives a great definition of written....only KH's attorney knows what she meant by written...not me...does it matter...a email verses something actually written with hand, may or maynot make a difference. To ME, it would....but thank you so much....I bet your penmanship is remarkable!

Actually, it is not so great anymore! I type all day then type all night and hardly ever "write" anything at all anymore! I doubt I am alone in this, either.

 

[grandmaj]

Well I think if he was told it said $350,000 he wants it public. Where did the money came from. It wouldn't bode well for Terri if she sold the rights to a book or pictures or movie. Just stacking it up so to speak showing what she is capable of doing. And that Kyron is not tops on that list.

 

[Jack]

What happens if Kaine doesn't agree to the abatement? I mean, why would he? What has he got to lose now?

Why would it matter if he agrees or not? Unless I read the document incorrectly they aren't asking KH's permission, they're asking for a ruling from the court.

 

[Patty G]

It seems to me that alarm bells started going off when the possibility that TMH paid $350,000 to her attorney. KH wants to know where the money came from in case it is a loan to TMH that he might be legally liable to help pay back. If so, he wants half of the loan money now.

He probably has concern that she has sold story/photos to media outlets too. Anybody have any ideas on what he could do about that?

I don't feel that is a concern at all since the $350,000.00 is a trumped up number for a variety of reasons.

ETA, if I was Terri's lawyer, I would dive into the Dateline interview $$$'s; all is fair in love and war.

 

[goatman]

You are right, his attorney "said" it.

Portland-based child custody attorney Laura Rackner, who represented Kaine in Monday's filing, also wrote in court documents that if Terri borrowed the money, and if that loan is considered a marital liability, then the cash should be considered a shared marital asset. That, said Rackner, would make Terri Horman responsible for giving half of the $350,000 to Kaine Horman for his "attorney fees and costs."

Meanwhile, Rackner said Kaine "does not have sufficient income or resources to pay for these legal services and meet his other financial obligations for the children and himself."

If Terri contests the motion, then Kaine's attorney asks that Terri pay his attorney fees for filing the motion.

link:

http://www.katu.com/news/local/99262529.html

Really? Kaine has to pay his legal fees? There isn't a single lawyer willing to do it pro bono? No offers at all, and if there were pro bono offers and he went with someone who charges-how is it Terri's fault that he can't pay?

I find it ironic that we can discuss how TH may have gotten 'gifts' to help with legal costs...but as of yet it seems a given that KH had to pay his lawyer? Does any of us really believe that he is having to pay for her, out of pocket and by himself? ":snooty:" Honestly, I would like to see if how KH is paying for it...pot meet kettle.

His little boy is missing, his wife may have hired a hitman; I HIGHLY doubt that there isn't a single person willing to jump in and lend a hand- babysitting, cleaning, cooking, LEGAL fees, household expenses ect. I would very, very surprised if no one offered. AND if no one offered, maybe WE should...heck if the guy pay his lawyer and keep up with household expenses, that is just sad.:waitasec:

Or, is it in his best interest to not have help, legally, in the long run?

It could also be that the Landscaper is not a good witness... and might invoke his rights under the 5th because he didn't come forward. Of course that is always going to be the argument. That if it was for real why did it take 6 months for the landscaper to talk about it. Just really iffy.

But, I'm thinking that LE could trump this motion. By filing some sort of criminal action against Terri for any part of what we have learned. MFH, Child Endangerment, kidnapping, obstruction......

Buckle up them there seatbelts.

RBBM: If this did happen, and LE has nothing BUT his word, then what happens to the RO that was based (at least partly on this). "well, someone told us he was asked to be apart of the MFH, but now he isn't talking.." Would the RO become invalid? Would there be any recourse for TH (assuming it was all a lie -I know BIG BIG assumption).


And lastly, I am really, really frustrated by all the criticism towards TH about her parenting of Baby K. First (before we found out about her being at the gym) it was "omg she must not be a very good mom to not even try and get custody-SHE'S GUILTY" and then after we had found out she went to the gym to get baby k and before she was served with the RO "OMG she tried to kidnap Baby K-SHE'S GUILTY" and then it was "We haven't heard anything from her, she should be contesting custody, SHE'S GUILTY" and now, that she is doing something (well at least her lawyers are) its "This is just a play by her lawyers, she doesn't really care about anyone/anything-SHE'S GUILTY":banghead:

Maybe she is, IMO she is, but that isn't based on her interactions with/ or non-interactions with Baby K. I know people who hate their spouse (and exes) but would never harm a hair on their child's head. Is she guilty? Time will tell, but it would be nice to know what we expect of her if she isn't guilty and stick with it. [Please note I am not criticizing anyone! That is not my intention!]

 

[Jaxson]

You didnt have to answer interogatories? We do here in MA. Pages of them-questions about when the break down of the marriage occurred, who worked when, who made what money, who mowed the lawn...they are the basis of the depositions done in a contested divorce.

No I just filled out the standard paperwork, it's community property here so we divided everything via attorney communications, went to court, judge asked a couple of questions about nothing really and then signed the papers. It was all worked out between the attorneys and yes they were well paid. We didn't really disagree on much or have much to disagree about. The kids were staying with me and he didn't want them anyway and I just wanted him to go away. I didn't ask for much child support and didn't gat any anyway...l

ETA we did have to answer questions in the paperwork about incomes, insurance, etc

 

[kappy50]

I agree with you. I think email is used so much now and it would be considered "in writing."

Gosh...I hope not with the way anyone can use your email this day and time...but I do understand what you are saying....

 

[grandmaj]

Someone help me didn't Mr. Baez enter into a deal for 250K and now that money is gone?

I don't see that for a top notch attorney that 350K would be out of line if Terri is charged with Kyron's disappearance. Especially if they find him or what happened to him through testimony of Dede or other friends or accomplices.

 

[Patty G]

Someone help me didn't Mr. Baez enter into a deal for 250K and now that money is gone?

I don't see that for a top notch attorney that 350K would be out of line if Terri is charged with Kyron's disappearance. Especially if they find him or what happened to him through testimony of Dede or other friends or accomplices.

But why would anyone give an attorney that kind of money if they haven't been charged with a crime? This is why the $350,000.00 doesn't even make sense at this point.

 

[nursebeeme]

I don't feel that is a concern at all since the $350,000.00 is a trumped up number for a variety of reasons.

ETA, if I was Terri's lawyer, I would dive into the Dateline interview $$$'s; all is fair in love and war.

:waitasec:
we do not know it was trumped up... this is coming from her divorce atty.

dive into the dateline money????? who says anyone made money from that show? I have not seen that.

eta: she could also be lying to her divorce atty... she already, as put forth in court documents, told her sext partner to lie to the criminal atty!

 

[angelmom]

I admit I don't know what that sentence about Terri means. I've read it 10 or 15 times. Doesn't it just mean that he has no idea if Terri will try to refute the evidence? I don't see how the DA could ask for the seal if the information wasn't true. Do you think LE made it up? Or Kaine made it up?

Help me here--give me a scenario that makes sense to you.

I think it means that the DA has no opinion on whether it is true or not and may, in fact, have requested it be sealed to protect Terri from this being splattered all over the media when they really have nothing to prove it. Of course, she screwed that up when she showed it to MC.

SPECULATION AHEAD:

My scenario is this: for whatever reason (truth, fame *advertiser censored*, plea bargain, etc.) the LS comes up with this MFH scenario. He has no evidence to back it up, but some sexting from Terri gives him some credibility to at least knowing her pretty well. :blushing:

The FBI sets up a sting which is, in the words of my teenage sons, a total FAIL!

The FBI and LE decide they still have to tell Kaine and warn him just in case it's true and Terri found someone else to do the deed. They tell him. He asks, "Do you think Baby K and I could be in danger?" What are they supposed to say? No? They'll look pretty dumb if he ends up dead! So they say, "We don't know, but it's possible."

So Kaine runs home, packs and leaves with the baby. Terri is completely caught off guard and calls 911 AGAIN (after the weird episode with the LS earlier in the day). Someone (DY? TY? LE?) suggests an RO to keep Terri away and to get her out of HIS house. Kaine files it based on what LE has said.

No evidence. No proof. He said/she said. But again, until or unless Terri contests it, that's all you need. And again, what judge is going to toss it until LE sorts out the details? It's an election year and this is one of the biggest cases in the country. Do you want to be the judge who denied the RO if Kaine ends up dead? Nope, and he doesn't either.

Now Terri is practically being shoved in a closet by her lawyer who wants nothing more than for her to SHUT UP and stay off the internet and quit texting people. He threatens to bail on the case if she says one word, and spends the next few weeks reassuring her that she might get her daughter back if she does exactly what he tells her. So despite the fact that her entire world is upside down (and she doesn't exactly have the most healthy coping mechanisms) she sits and takes it. She stops talking and texting, she stays away from the media, and she doesn't argue with Kaine about custody, money, or the divorce.


Like I said, pure speculation. I think it's at least possible, and the MFH thing really seems bizarre and clumsy to me.

 

[goatman]

Regarding the 350K-would anyone like to lay bets that a network stepped up? Wonder what pictures are going to be sold in this case.....just sayin.

Well I think if he was told it said $350,000 he wants it public. Where did the money came from. It wouldn't bode well for Terri if she sold the rights to a book or pictures or movie. Just stacking it up so to speak showing what she is capable of doing. And that Kyron is not tops on that list.

During the Dateline airing they stated (the narrator) that KH and DY had provided them HUNDREDS of photos.

IF TH is found innocent, and she has sold photos/stories/book rights...how is this any different then what DY and KH have already provided (don't know if they got any money).

I completely agree that if she were be found guilty then that would be a whole other ball game. But right now, is it fair to say "because we SUSPECT you did something-this is not okay for you to do, but when we do it, it is okay"?

If they were that worried about pictures/stories/videos/books...where was the necessity in providing hundreds?

Not criticizing, bashing, ect. ect. I am just throwing out some "questions for discussion" that have been tumbling around in my head.

****let the throwing of rotten fruit ensue***

Moo, moo, moo, and all that jazz.

 

[Patty G]

:waitasec:
we do not know it was trumped up... this is coming from her divorce atty.

dive into the dateline money????? who says anyone made money from that show? I have not seen that.

eta: she could also be lying to her divorce atty... she already, as put forth in court documents, told her sext partner to lie to the criminal atty!

Actually the $350K came from Kaine's attorney via written communication through a third party, now known as sources saying it came from text message to Michael Cook.

No one knows if Kaine or Desiree made $$ off of Dateline. That is why I stated IF I was TH's attorney I would look into Dateline's interview for $$$ as we all know, these shows pay money for licensing fees.

ETA: Do we have proof that Terri told Michael to lie? Did they include the text messages in any of the court documents or do they just state this is what Terri claims.

 

[gwenabob]

But why would anyone give an attorney that kind of money if they haven't been charged with a crime? This is why the $350,000.00 doesn't even make sense at this point.

Actually, I think $350,000 sounds exactly right. Criminal attorneys always get their money up front. They do not bill monthly. If things start to go south in the case, their client is likely to stop paying. Attorneys can't just quit if they aren't getting paid. If they want to quit representing their client, they have to ask permission from the court. The court can deny that permission, even if the attorney is not being paid. The judge would tell the attorney it is their own fault for not collecting the fee up front. The court will consider the rights of the defendant and them getting a fair trial--without their case being disrupted by a change in attorneys--before the rights of the attorney who wants to exit.

$350,000 is a lot of money. But it won't all go to attorney's fees. It will pay for expensive experts. It will pay for expensive court exhibits. The attorney has to pay his paralegals and assistants. He could be spending the better part of a couple years--at least-- mostly working on Terri's case.

Now, if it turns out she is never charged, then she is entitled to a refund of unused money. It sits in trust, and the attorney bills against it as he goes along. But really, it would be stupid for Houze to take a small retainer, and then have to keep representing her even if she can't come up with enough money to continue paying the fees. That's how it works, folks.