2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[CHICANA]

Great post. I'm glad Kaine is pushing back -- and for good reason. We've all seen how many times CPS has dropped the ball and a child ends up dead. I agree that TH should go to court and get a psych eval before visits are ever considered.

MOO

Mel

Does she get to choose the psych doc doing the evaluation ?

 

[Melanie]

Does she get to choose the psych doc doing the evaluation ?

If it's a court ordered eval, I believe (no link, just MOO) that the court would assign her to a psych doc. I don't believe she can open a phone book and pick out someone.

Again, JMO

Mel

 

[CHICANA]

If it's a court ordered eval, I believe (no link, just MOO) that the court would assign her to a psych doc. I don't believe she can open a phone book and pick out someone.

Again, JMO

Mel

If that's the case, I don't blame her. If the doctor is paid by the state, they work for the state. She should be able to pay an expert of her choosing, provided they're licensed and have the same qualifications as the state appointed docs.

 

[stmarysmead]

we don't know that the baby saw anything traumatic happening to Kyron so let's not get carried away!

Most mothers would want to see their child, so there is nothing abnormal about Terry wanting to see her child,imo. In Terry's opinion and perhaps in the opinion of others, seeing her mother would be good for the child.

But she has to submit to the process and until she does this is all moot.

But, the problem is..we don't know. Kaine's atty used a very specific sentence about the Baby possibly having witnessed some unimaginable horror (don't have the exact words but something close) So the possibility is right there in the court document...so sadly, that awful thought is one that is a part of the pleading...not a matter of getting "carried away." That may well be exactly what LE believes.

It's a very real scenario of what may have happened. That's why it is referenced. Baby K may have "seen it all, heard it all" too. So, IMO, it should not be lightly disregarded. In fact, since Terri refuses to talk...why shouldn't that scenario be given very real weight in the visitation decision?

And there is a big difference with the sweet idea of uniting Baby with "Mom"...and forcing Baby to be held and handled by the fearsome murderer she saw do violence to her brother. We can "romanticize" the scenario but it's a very real possibility THAT latter statement is the truth. And Terri will not help abate the concern because she "values her freedom."

"If the doctor is paid by the state, they work for the state"

And, likewise, if Terri chooses the mental health expert...well, the person paying gets the words said that they want. "Truth" depends on who is paying. Haven't we seen enough dueling court experts? Don't you think House has a bevy of experts he uses in Court? Who ever is picking up the check...gets the "expert opinion" they need. Personally, I find that appalling...but it is what we see all the time.

Speaking of appalling...I've wondered this too: if Houze knows right now that Terri brutally killed Kyron and Baby K witnessed it...I know it is his job to do all he can to defend Terri,and protect her rights. But, would it be ethical for him to KNOW this...and yet be pushing to subject the Baby to her brother's murderer again...knowing that there very well could be real trauma attached to that for the child?

I mean, is that how the game is played?

 

[ami]

Does she get to choose the psych doc doing the evaluation ?

If it's a court ordered eval, I believe (no link, just MOO) that the court would assign her to a psych doc. I don't believe she can open a phone book and pick out someone.

Again, JMO

Mel

In my husband's custody process, the first evaluation was made by a social worker that was selected as just the next one in line on the certified evaluator list. She had no allegiance to the state, nor to the parents, just did the parent interviews, home visits, watched the interactions, gathered statements and put together a package. Neither side liked her evaluation for various reasons, so his ex-wife's side did the formal petition for a second evaluation. Here they hired a PhD psychologist who specialized in evaluations - each side presented 2 or 3 names of their choosing and then haggled over it for quite a while before reaching an agreement- and the second one wasn't allowed to read the first one's evaluation. This one also went forward and was more involved (more psych tests administered, longer interviews, etc) and after all that she made essentially the same recommendations as the first woman did.

I don't know if it's state specific, probably the attorneys do...

 

[AmyDC]

This is a civil case...so, the "state" only wants the info. The "state" doesn't have a dog in the fight so to speak, like the petitioner and respondent does. So, it may be fairer (if that is a word) for the state to appoint the mental health person. Also, is it bothering anyone else that her lawyers didn't really deny much of the sexting, drinking, and so on, but she still doesn't want to speak? What I mean is, if she just didn't want her dirty laundry aired, that is one thing, but if she is basically not denying that, THEN SHE MUST HAVE SOMETHING MORE TO HIDE, right?

 

[stmarysmead]

This is a civil case...so, the "state" only wants the info. The "state" doesn't have a dog in the fight so to speak, like the petitioner and respondent does. So, it may be fairer (if that is a word) for the state to appoint the mental health person. Also, is it bothering anyone else that her lawyers didn't really deny much of the sexting, drinking, and so on, but she still doesn't want to speak? What I mean is, if she just didn't want her dirty laundry aired, that is one thing, but if she is basically not denying that, THEN SHE MUST HAVE SOMETHING MORE TO HIDE, right?

It's bothering me.

Great post. Thank you.

 

[32beatspersecond]

I think Terri and her defense team are like the Armadillo getting rolled around by a hungry coyote. eventually, the coyote grows tired and frustrated, and in his despair he fails to hear the rattling over his own whimpers and howls; the moment where the patient snake awaits.

 

[stmarysmead]

I think Terri and her defense team are like the Armadillo getting rolled around by a hungry coyote. eventually, the coyote grows tired and frustrated, and in his despair he fails to hear the rattling over his own whimpers and howls; the moment where the patient snake awaits.

Yes, I agree.

I can see LE as the patient snake...watching and waiting to strike just as the coyote (Kaine's civil attorney) tires of wrestling with the criminally recalcitrant Armadillo (Terri)

Good image!

 

[32beatspersecond]

Yes, I agree.

I can see LE as the patient snake...watching and waiting to strike just as the coyote (Kaine's civil attorney) tires of wrestling with the criminally recalcitrant Armadillo (Terri)

Good image!

Actually -

Terri is the Armadillo...
Kaine is the Coyote...
Houze is the Snake...

I am afraid if KH is not careful, the civil suit binders will outweigh the criminal investigation. I am sure Houze can't wait for him to make a wrong move so he can start throwing flags around like a drunken referee and it seems they are patient enough to wait for that to happen.

 

[stmarysmead]

Actually -

Terri is the Armadillo...
Kaine is the Coyote...
Houze is the Snake...

I am afraid if KH is not careful, the civil suit binders will outweigh the criminal investigation. I am sure Houze can't wait for him to make a wrong move so he can start throwing flags around like a drunken referee and it seems they are patient enough to wait for that to happen.

But there is another big Rattler out there poised to strike...LE and the other investigative entities. Yes...those "two independent investigations" that are currently underway targeting our prickly armadillo..

As for Houze, if his client is a child murderer (of a little guy who loved and trusted her)...and an attempted murderer of her husband...or involved in other vile criminal/sexual activity...he best be careful that in the public's eye, his over zealous efforts don't make HIM look like a ...worm. (Couldn't resist. LOL!)

 

[LindseyLou]

Do you think Houze and/or Bunch know what her "truth" is? Is that something criminal defense attorneys ask to know in order to know what to prepare for and how to defend them? Just wondering...

Seems like her attorneys would be asking tough questions to find out the closest thing to the truth in order to know what to expect to leak out in the media, announced by LE, etc. I also just wonder if they were okay with her version of what she did that day, even when LE doesn't buy it.

Is that something she would have disclosed to her criminal defense attorney and he (of course) would keep it locked away to protect and defend her?

I just wish there was SOMEONE who could actually account for her timeline on June 4th besides her...and of course I wish they would come forward and say something.

 

[mmmagique]

Nope.

If she is guilty, that is the last thing her attorney wants to know. They will want to know what she told LE, and what she told others, they will then put on their defense based on that, and the information they have from LE (and their own investigations.)

 

[LindseyLou]

Nope.

If she is guilty, that is the last thing her attorney wants to know. They will want to know what she told LE, and what she told others, they will then put on their defense based on that, and the information they have from LE (and their own investigations.)

Then what happens when they've built their defense around false or untrue information and the real truth starts to leak out or there is some kind of hard incriminating evidence against her? Do they just rationalize it? or do they then ask her "okay, explain this..."

It seems like they would have some sort of conversation about "tell me what REALLY happened so we know the worst case scenario...and I will help defend you" I guess that would be illegal for her attorney to know and not come forward with it?

 

[mmmagique]

Gosh, I don't remember all the rules, but I do know no attorney who is defending someone wants to know their client is guilty.

This would be an excellent question to ask at "ask a lawyer"! : )

 

[LindseyLou]

Gosh, I don't remember all the rules, but I do know no attorney who is defending someone wants to know their client is guilty.

This would be an excellent question to ask at "ask a lawyer"! : )

Guess maybe in some sense it makes their job easier on the conscience if you don't know what really happened. :waitasec:

 

[cluciano63]

http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horma...thdraws-request-for-visitation-106631418.html

 

[SurfieTX]

"Judge Meisenheimer’s office confirms the motion was filed on Tuesday."

How does one go about locating the motion on line?

 

[ladonna]

Here's another media link with more detail

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/terri_moulton_horman_withdraws.html

 

[jadejazzkayla]

This is so sad for everyone concerned.