2010.07.03 Sheriff confirms Kyron last seen *inside* school

[cavalierlover]

If the MCSO was conclusively convinced Kyron and TMH were both in the school on June 4th, why then circulate the questionnaires seeking additional corroborating accounts from other adults and children confirming either or both were there that morning?

I suspect LE had one or more individuals (TMH herself; classmate "T"; PTA mother; etc.) placing either or both Kyron and TMH at the school but for some reason didn't consider same reliable.

Following circulation of the questionnaires, MCSO is once again confirming Kyron was last seen inside the school but do we know whether is was, indeed, Friday morning or could it have been Thursday when the science exhibit was set up?

EXIF data on the photographs would be helpful to establish when they were taken. But it is possible the photos were "photo shopped" to add Kyron. IMO it is possible TMH was at the school alone on Friday morning and that Kyron was never there on Friday.

 

[songline]

This whole "inside the school" thing has been giving me nightmares from the beginning. It reminds me of the Harvard Med student who was hidden inside a wall by a lab assistant.

What I keep wondering is if there were any new substitute teachers that day? Or if there were any incidents between Kyron and another student that we don't know about?

I'm sorry, something is just fishy and rotten about him last being seen inside the school. I just can't put my finger on what is wrong with this picture.

I also have been asking about inside the school....
Have all the janitors, and superintendents been interviewed?
Have they looked in pipe, boiler rooms etc.... like you - I too keep on thinking that the
school has not been totally investigated, that would include the trash bins.

ALSO aren't the schools supposed to have cameras? to protect the innocent children?

 

[songline]

:yes:
It's hard to "forget" about young T's description. Very hard. It's interesting the press isn't asking about this directly at pressers. ground rules *cough*

T, thanks to his grandmother (Terri's next door neighbor), may have been ruled out as credible simply because his grandmother saw it fit to circumvent LE's specific instructions to NOT speak to media with regard to his testimony about his best friend and next-door neighbor's mother.

Terri's attorney has probably already talked to young T and his grandmother, since they like to talk so much.

I dunno. :shakehead: Big judgment issues there. Hink-a-dinky land.

ALTERNATIVELY ...

Young T's testimony about "going to see the electricity" might be so important to their actual case/theory, that they've buried it for the time being by pretending its irrelevant...

Again. :shakehead: Horman family-association first circle. Hink-a-dinky dink.

If this post sounds all speculative and suspicious, it's because ... it is. JMHO

What exactly did the boy say???

 

[songline]

Don't we think though as parents......there has been NO outcry about the school....their practice, their knowing or not knowing, no blaming from the parents of the missing child......doesn't that strike anyone else as extremely telling that LE from the gitgo did not see anything to blame on the school? I realize they have not spoken out as LE has said no talking to anyone about that day............but usually you would hear a huge uproar about a child going missing from a school....to me this is very telling...it tells me they have enough information that the school was not at fault.......in any way....am I reaching here???:banghead: It tells me that immediately for some reason they knew who to hone in on.

ITA
the school should have called home when the boy did not show up in class NO MATTER WHAT.

 

[songline]

I posted something several days ago in BeanE's "How to..." thread, and for me it's still relevant to this topic. The theory that TH took Kyron to school and then had him meet her later outside has a lot of holes in it for me. Here's a modified version of the thoughts I posted on that thread:

--------
It's basically a "now you see me/now you don't plan."

What if I wanted to take a child to a school where I plan to later abduct him and also remove suspicion from myself?

It seems that I’d need to accomplish 3 things in order to remove any suspicion of my involvement:

1. Ensure that I had plenty of witnesses who saw us both at the school prior to the start of class at 8:45.
2. Ensure that I had at least one witness see me leave the school without my child prior to 8:45.
3. Ensure that witnesses saw my child in the school AFTER I left so that I would not be accused of being the last person to see him.

So, I’m basically in the witness manipulation business to pull this off. How could I use the people at the expo to supply my alibi?

I’ve been thinking about the photos that TH took at the expo. More to the point, I’ve been thinking about the photos that weren’t taken (to my knowledge).

When I look at the photos TH took at the expo, they just don’t look like photos taken for the purpose of establishing an alibi. They look like photos someone would take to simply document an event in the life of a child whom they loved. If I was about to commit a crime and knew that the whereabouts of both me and my child were going to be examined, I’d make sure I had witnesses out the vuvuzela.

I’d take pictures that prominently feature other kids/parents/teachers in the background, especially adults. (Not pictures with people obscured in the background.) I’d hand my camera to a parent that I knew and ask her/him to take a picture of me with my child in front of the exhibit. I’d ask to see their child’s exhibit and take photos of them with their children in front of their exhibits. I’d also speak to people who knew me and strike up conversations that they would easily remember later if asked.

I’d also make a point of being seen leaving the school building alone. I wouldn’t risk leaving with my child, but would instruct my child to meet me outside later on. I’d linger near the most popular exit until a parent I knew was also leaving, and I’d strike up a conversation with that person on the way out so that they would also easily remember me leaving.

My overall point is, I don’t see the apparent lack of witnesses as an indication that TH was involved in Kyron's disappearance. I actually see the lack of photographs and witnesses as reason not to suspect TH. She would have had the opportunity to use the people around her to her advantage to establish her alibi and it doesn’t appear that she did that, IMO.

You make sense to me.

 

[songline]

Don't we think though as parents......there has been NO outcry about the school....their practice, their knowing or not knowing, no blaming from the parents of the missing child......doesn't that strike anyone else as extremely telling that LE from the gitgo did not see anything to blame on the school? I realize they have not spoken out as LE has said no talking to anyone about that day............but usually you would hear a huge uproar about a child going missing from a school....to me this is very telling...it tells me they have enough information that the school was not at fault.......in any way....am I reaching here???:banghead: It tells me that immediately for some reason they knew who to hone in on.

Something does not smell right here about how the school was or was not investigated. I have been really concerned more about that - then about Terri being the culprit.
JMHO

 

[songline]

If this is true, as LE did state rather definitively a few weeks ago, then there is no accomplice, no hiding place, no happy ending. If Terri saw him last, period, not saw him last in the school, then she is "it" and poor Kyron is gone.

So why didn't someone see her leave the school with Kyron?
Why didn't LE do a better investigation of the school everyone in it , and all the spaces a body can be hidden??? including a boiler room, I dont mean to sound horrible, but I have seen children treated that badly on some cases.

 

[scotslass]

or at least a statement from the school outlining there safety protocol and attendance routine.

trying to narrow down the timeline, currently i have anywhere from 8:15- 10:00 a.m.

* parent sees Kyron with TH at 8:15 after that it is TH's word that he was seen at 8:45 heading to class. When does the school bell ring (it is 8:45 for my kids but the school down the road it is 8:55)

I wonder if attendance was taken at 8:45 (whenever the school bell rings) and then again At 10:00. I know we have to do a head count before leaving an area eg:

Field trip/assembly's count heads before we leave the classroom do another head count once boarded on the bus/seated in gym to ensure no one wandered off without being seen (went to bathroom)etc. If the head count doesn't match do it quickly again then report to office immediately. Repeated on departure of event. It is on this procedure that i was basing the latest attendance being 10:00 a.m after the science fair concluded.

I could see the school assuming Kyron was not present at school if he missed morning attendance (8:45) and then not assuming he would be present for the 10:00 am attendance. Regardless the call should have been made to someone to report he was absent. I believe TH's presence that morning clouded that judgement and it is unfortunate.

The real issue is Kyron is missing and someone took him from the school without anyone noticing (this scares the hell out of me) LE has stated TH was the last known person to see him and when i try to look at this situation if i were present in the school. Kyron being with TH would not alert me to pay attention or to really register it (we assume kids are safe with their parents), however an unknown person in the school that would register in my mind for sure and We are just not hearing any of that.. TH would be the obvious person to focus on I don't fault LE for that I'm just curious about what other leads they are investigating.

Also wondering why we are not hearing much about the school safety procedures all schools should have camera's

 

[kgeaux]

So why didn't someone see her leave the school with Kyron?
Why didn't LE do a better investigation of the school everyone in it , and all the spaces a body can be hidden??? including a boiler room, I dont mean to sound horrible, but I have seen children treated that badly on some cases.

Maybe no one saw her leave the school with Kyron simply because she didn't leave with him........? Of course, if Kyron is no longer in the school, we must assume that someone was able to remove him from the school in such a way that nobody even noticed.

I'm very curious about your assessment about the investigation of the school. LE has stated that the entire school was searched thoroughly, more than once. Is there something that makes you feel as though crawl spaces, boiler rooms, etc. were not searched?

 

[GrainneDhu]

If the MCSO was conclusively convinced Kyron and TMH were both in the school on June 4th, why then circulate the questionnaires seeking additional corroborating accounts from other adults and children confirming either or both were there that morning?

I suspect LE had one or more individuals (TMH herself; classmate "T"; PTA mother; etc.) placing either or both Kyron and TMH at the school but for some reason didn't consider same reliable.

Following circulation of the questionnaires, MCSO is once again confirming Kyron was last seen inside the school but do we know whether is was, indeed, Friday morning or could it have been Thursday when the science exhibit was set up?

EXIF data on the photographs would be helpful to establish when they were taken. But it is possible the photos were "photo shopped" to add Kyron. IMO it is possible TMH was at the school alone on Friday morning and that Kyron was never there on Friday.

There were two adults and one child captured in the photos; I'm certain that LE corroborated their whereabouts, etc, already.

Plus, the president of the PTA has come forward to say that she was there when TMH took the photo of Kyron in front of his exhibit at about 8:15 am.

While it is possible that all of the above were mistaken or unable to corroborate the circumstances, I consider it highly unlikely.

Kyron was in school at around 8:15 am and his mother did take that photo.

But... where were they at 8:20 am?

 

[GrainneDhu]

I also have been asking about inside the school....
Have all the janitors, and superintendents been interviewed?
Have they looked in pipe, boiler rooms etc.... like you - I too keep on thinking that the
school has not been totally investigated, that would include the trash bins.

ALSO aren't the schools supposed to have cameras? to protect the innocent children?

LE has said that the school has been searched multiple times, including the roof. They've used both human and canine searchers.

The trash bins, I just don't know about. Since there has been no landfill search, I assume that the school used a dumpster that was not emptied that day and was, therefore, available to be examined. I don't know this for sure, that is only my speculation based on the fact that LE has not called for a landfill search.

It has been established in many news articles that the school did not have video surveillance.

I know that my local, very rural, school does not. Every year, there's a few thousand leftover after all the necessary and mandatory expenses have been met and so far, the decision has always been to spend it on student enrichment.

We, as a community, may regret that decision if a child ever goes missing from the school. But the hard fact is, we don't have unlimited money and spending it to meet a highly unlikely threat is not a good use of limited funds.

For example, I would prefer to spend the limited money available to expand the number of hours the school nurse is present. Children do get ill or injured at school and it would be good if the school nurse could be there full time (we share the position with two other schools). If it were a choice between school nurse hours and video surveillance system, I would vote school nurse hours.

 

[Whome?]

This is my post from the Skyline School thread...


Let's gather the actual info we know:


Kyron's deskmate Tr's statements (transcribed directly from the interview videos):

"He walked by the hallway and I'm like, Hi Kyron, and he's like Hi, I'm gonna go see this cool one, electric one. I'm like alright, bye, and that's the last time I saw him, he never did made it back to class." (KPTV 6/9)

"I went downstairs and that was the last time I saw him, I never did see him after that."
"And she (sub brought in to help with science fair) was like...oh no, where's Kyron, there's only five. And Ms. P's like, um, it's alright, calm down, calm down, he's probably in the bathroom or getting a drink of water. She's like, alright I'm gonna leave, and she left." KOIN (6/11)

In that KOIN video the reporter also says Tr's grandmother says Tr told her he saw TH leaving the building and that Kyron was not with his stepmom when she left school.



Earlier in this thread Lavender transcribed a telephone interview made by KATU with MCSO Lt Mary Lindstrand where Lindstrand said:

"His stepmother and he were in the school looking at the science fair, had been in 2 or 3 different classrooms. I am told he went up one stairwell, she went up the other stairwell. She saw him walking down the hall toward his classroom, and that’s the last she saw him.”

If this question has been answered
please forgive me.

In the above post,Kyron told the little
boy he was going to see "this cool one,
electric one" has it ever been deter-
mined if there was an electric exhibit
at the school that day,or could some-
one have enticed him with this info?

Again if question previously asked and
answered please excuse and point me'
in that direction.

:waitasec:

 

[Chili Fries]

I don't remember seeing this article before, maybe somebody posted it and I missed it. It's from the day after Kyron went missing:

Portland Public Schools spokesman Matt Shelby said two teachers saw Kyron with his mother and thought the two left school together. He said it was not uncommon for parents to pick up kids this way, so no suspicions were raised.

http://www.king5.com/news/local/NW-Portland-second-grader-still-missing-Saturday-95689114.html

 

[prettyinpink]

Also wondering why we are not hearing much about the school safety procedures all schools should have camera's

My schools did not have cameras, but they always have someone at the entrance, all other doors are locked, and you check in and out. I am surprised they did not have something like that. Even if there is an event, you sign out a badge.

 

[gwenabob]

My schools did not have cameras, but they always have someone at the entrance, all other doors are locked, and you check in and out. I am surprised they did not have something like that. Even if there is an event, you sign out a badge.

I believe all the doors except the main entrance *were* locked--from the outside. You can't lock people in. What if there was a fire? People have to be able to open the doors from the inside.

 

[RubyRed]

If this question has been answered
please forgive me.

In the above post,Kyron told the little
boy he was going to see "this cool one,
electric one" has it ever been deter-
mined if there was an electric exhibit
at the school that day,or could some-
one have enticed him with this info?

Again if question previously asked and
answered please excuse and point me'
in that direction.

:waitasec:

There is a thread on the electric project.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106889"]The Science Fair-IB Expo and the Electric Project - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[xin]

If this question has been answered
please forgive me.

In the above post,Kyron told the little
boy he was going to see "this cool one,
electric one" has it ever been deter-
mined if there was an electric exhibit
at the school that day,or could some-
one have enticed him with this info?

Again if question previously asked and
answered please excuse and point me'
in that direction.

:waitasec:

I agree, this is an important detail: a kid recalls Kyron saying where he was going? So, where did he go, what did he mean? Who, if anybody, had an electricity display up and did they see Kyron. Important to know more about this, or if it should be dismissed as nonsense. Doesn't sound like nonsense, came from somewhere.

 

[xin]

There is a thread on the electric project.

The Science Fair-IB Expo and the Electric Project - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Kinda hard to weed through the *probably people* but does not seem to be a substantive comment with specifics on an electricity display. I'm sticking to the possibility that the cool thing may have been off-campus, or obscured.

 

[RubyRed]

Kinda hard to weed through the *probably people* but does not seem to be a substantive comment with specifics on an electricity display. I'm sticking to the possibility that the cool thing may have been off-campus, or obscured.

I didn't read the thread on it but I have never seen a definitive answer on it.

 

[songline]

This is my post from the Skyline School thread...


Let's gather the actual info we know:


Kyron's deskmate Tr's statements (transcribed directly from the interview videos):

"He walked by the hallway and I'm like, Hi Kyron, and he's like Hi, I'm gonna go see this cool one, electric one. I'm like alright, bye, and that's the last time I saw him, he never did made it back to class." (KPTV 6/9)

[B]"I went downstairs and that was the last time I saw him, I never did see him after that."
"And she (sub brought in to help with science fair) was like...oh no, where's Kyron, there's only five. And Ms. P's like, um, it's alright, calm down, calm down, he's probably in the bathroom or getting a drink of water. She's like, alright I'm gonna leave, and she left."[/B] KOIN (6/11)

In that KOIN video the reporter also says Tr's grandmother says Tr told her he saw TH leaving the building and that Kyron was not with his stepmom when she left school.



Earlier in this thread Lavender transcribed a telephone interview made by KATU with MCSO Lt Mary Lindstrand where Lindstrand said:

"His stepmother and he were in the school looking at the science fair, had been in 2 or 3 different classrooms. I am told he went up one stairwell, she went up the other stairwell. She saw him walking down the hall toward his classroom, and that’s the last she saw him.”

:waitasec:The Substitute teacher told a kid to clam down when he noticed Kyron missing???? then she left?????
WHERE DID SHE GO why aren't they looking into that?
Maybe they are, I have not read all the threads.