2010.07.26 - Kyron Horman case featured on Dateline

[Donjeta]

IIRC, there was nothing saying Terri's son was coming on Friday. I'll try to find the link.

The biofather said he was scheduled to come on Saturday. On Willamette Week, maybe?

 

[debs]

The biofather said he was scheduled to come on Saturday. On Willamette Week, maybe?

J was there Friday

 

[nosysw]

Maybe this mom was trying to teach her young son that it was his responsibility to make his bed and clean up his toys and he would meet with that training upon his return? Maybe this mom felt that she loved seeing the unmade bed, because it was a sign of the little boy she had to part with on a regular basis? Maybe this mom is a working mom, with scads of responsibility a husband and older son to attend and serve, and maybe a disease to attend? Maybe this mom doesn't think that made beds are so important? Maybe this mom just so happened to miss a beat on getting that bed made and, as it turned out, it was to become more important to her than she could ever imagined -- a sign that he was there and he left his place untidy, silly bird... And now she can stick her face into the sheets and maybe still smell his presence.

One mom that I know who lost her son suddenly said that she missed his dirty fingernails. I have thought of that many times...

Wrinkles, I just love this post...so many great thoughts but the bottom line as you said is that it might now be a great source of comfort for her, God bless!

 

[nosysw]

My grandchildren live right by me. If they stay overnight, I do not change their sheets after one stay. Call me lazy, but what's the point.

If they leave a mess, I leave it until they are at my house again and I make them clean it up then.

Sometimes I ask them if they cleaned up and they say, "Yes."

Because of circumstances, I don't go check. Then, I see that their definition of cleaning up and mine are different.

exactly...my kids bedrooms are on a different floor as mine and sometimes the only time i go in there is after they are in bed to kiss them good night and maybe later to check on them when they're sleeping (boy do they look like angels then and brighten my night no matter what craziness they've been up to all day!)...so i wouldn't even know their beds aren't made...

 

[BeanE]

J was there Friday

Oh do you have the link for that? I'm having a heck of a time finding that article.

 

[nosysw]

I just came across this. It is so beautiful that I had to share.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-sp8kvGOz4

thank you SO much for posting this...a WS'er did a video of Brittanee and used the same music...lovely, heartwrenching and haunting in both cases...thanks again!

 

[Sherbie]

Exactly. Her expectation that he would be coming to her house on the evening of June 4 did NOT prompt her to make his bed. Then she got the phone call that he was missing and now states she cannot make it. My question still stands. Why wasn't it made at any time in the two weeks since he'd last been there, or his clothes put away in the two weeks since he'd been there, or the toys straightened up and put away in the two weeks since he'd been there?

With much respect, debs, not everyone makes their bed. A lot of people just leave them as is after they get up. Some people might not launder the sheets if someone slept in the bed for only a night or two. Some people might wait til the very last second before someone visits before laundering the sheets and making the bed. She or Tony still had plenty of time before bedtime to do that, if they'd wanted to.

Also, if you've seen where she states the laundry has been sitting out since his last visit, I'd appreciate a link to it since I've never heard that. I don't think it would matter, regardless; however, if she hasn't said that, then for all we know, she could've done that laundry the night before he disappeared.

As for the toys, it is a kid's room, not a living room or show room. It didn't look messy to me; just looked like a normal kid's room. There were times I could barely make a path in my son's room for all the hot wheels and toys.

There are just way too many variables for us to make any suppositions or attach significance to the state of the bedding, laundry or toys, IMO.

 

[nursebeeme]

Trouble hit home again when Kyron disappeared. The day after Kyron vanished, Tarver says, James went to the Hormans’ house for a previously planned weeklong visit.http://wweek.com/editorial/3634/14214/

I knew it was Saturday but I back it with a link ^^

 

[nursebeeme]

With much respect, debs, not everyone makes their bed. A lot of people just leave them as is after they get up. Some people might not launder the sheets if someone slept in the bed for only a night or two. Some people might wait til the very last second before someone visits before laundering the sheets and making the bed. She or Tony still had plenty of time before bedtime to do that, if they'd wanted to.

Also, if you've seen where she states the laundry has been sitting out since his last visit, I'd appreciate a link to it since I've never heard that. I don't think it would matter, regardless; however, if she hasn't said that, then for all we know, she could've done that laundry the night before he disappeared.

As for the toys, it is a kid's room, not a living room or show room. It didn't look messy to me; just looked like a normal kid's room. There were times I could barely make a path in my son's room for all the hot wheels and toys.

There are just way too many variables for us to make any suppositions or attach significance to the state of the bedding, laundry or toys, IMO.

sherbie... THANK YOU for saying that!

 

[gitana1]

This is one of those times for me, that if Terri is guilty, she is both too cunning and too stupid for words, and I don't mean that as a flippant slam. I mean that literally. She planned this rather elaborate abduction and probably a murder as well, carried it out rather successfully thus far, but didn't envision that Desiree would come to Portland upon hearing her son was missing? It's just a little off, IMHO.

Also, what constitutes surprised? What is DY's interpretation of TH being surprised? Did Terri ask something along the lines of, "You're coming right now?" Is that the smoking gun with regard to this aspect of the case? The more and more this case relies on the nitpicks, the more and more concerned I become about the direction.

I don't want to delve into the rumor mill, but it's entirely possible that Desiree wasn't quite as involved in Kyron's life as we're being led to believe, and that Terri was simply surprised, in that moment, that she'd drop everything and come straight to Portland. I have little linkable evidence to back up the aforementioned opinion, but I will say that Kyron received a fishing pole for Christmas and TY said he'd been planning to finally take Kyron on fishing trip so he could use his new fishing pole. If you're actively involved in your stepson's life, six months is a long time to wait to take a little boy fishing to use his Christmas present. If Terri was in TY's position, she'd be crucified for how inattentive she was of him and how she didn't care enough to take him fishing so he could use his Christmas present.

I'll just go ahead and duck the tomatoes.

I don't see a focus on "nitpicks". Yes, there are little pieces of info or innuendo or trivia that may or may not be related or relevant to Kyron's disappearance. But why do you think that's what the case is based on? Is it possible that the investigation into TH is based instead on this?:

1. TH apparently has stated that she conveniently was driving around rural roads with a sick baby, for a few hours on the very day Kyron went missing. Thus, she is able to account, without any back up, for crucial hours during which he could have hidden something. Also, although the baby was so sick that TH had to drive her around to soothe her for a few hours, TH was able to, directly afterward, take the baby to the gym daycare.
2. TH failed, reportedly, her LDTs.
3. TH gave up her custodial rights to her baby, not even willing to ask for visitation, because she could not risk incriminating herself in a civil case with criminal implications. Further, TH did not contest the RO request at all, and agreed to move out of her home. I keep hearing how TH was kicked out of her home and that her baby was "taken" from her. But she did not fight the allegations or the request, so I think she willingly gave up these things. Why, if she is not hiding something?
4. TH reportedly had a torrid affair of sorts with some guy, only 3 weeks after her son went missing, able to sext and send sexually explicit images by the hundreds, instead of being so scared and grief-stricken that she could not even move or talk or eat - the way most parents of missing children feel.
5. A GJ has been convened to determine whether TH (not MC, not DS, not DY, not Kaine, etc), will be indited.
6. TH retained a criminal attorney and has refused to speak to LE since.

These things, as a whole, are huge. I don't care about affairs or how the mother felt or Kaine or whether she went to the gym after Kyron went missing, was flippant on FB after he went missing, or how she hugged DY at the presser and DY didn't like it, or that she drives a red mustang or possibly took steroids in the past. None of that is important, IMO. They are all red herrings. But the above points, especially taken together, those are the key. To me, picking out some random issue, such as who DY immediately wanted to speak to when determining her son was missing, and saying this is what the case is based on, ignores these huge, major issues. JMO.

 

[mydailyopinions]

Trouble hit home again when Kyron disappeared. The day after Kyron vanished, Tarver says, James went to the Hormans’ house for a previously planned weeklong visit.http://wweek.com/editorial/3634/14214/

I knew it was Saturday but I back it with a link ^^

Truly Interesting!

 

[Sherbie]

This is a complete and unfair misrepresentation of what I posted.

Kaine lived in a house with Terri and Kyron, and by virtue of his proximity to the person many, if not most, believe is responsible for Kyron's disappearance, his life deserves to be examined. I don't believe he's responsible for Kyron's disappearance; however, assuming Terri is involved, there may be aspects of his life that provide clues about why or even how, and if examining those aspects of his life brings Kyron home, then so be it. So many posters have criticized Terri for not laying her life bare, saying they would let LE come in and poke around in whatever fashion they needed if it meant finding Kyron, and yet whenever anyone wants to poke around for clues in Kaine's life, the same rules don't seem to apply. He must be "protected." Protected from what? If he's got nothing to hide, then respectfully examining his life and choices should be fair game, right?

Emphasis added by me. Couple of points:

(1) Laying your life bare for LE and letting them poke around in an effort to help find a child is totally different than allowing just anyone to poke around for clues to satisfy their own curiosity.

(2) You asked what he's to be protected from. I'd say from anyone who would consider him "fair game" to have his life torn apart and inspected inside and out -- there's never been a single indication by LE or in the media that he is anything other than an innocent, suffering, grieving victim in the disappearance of his son.

 

[cluciano63]

My problem with Kaine is that he seems to have no idea what is going on with the women in his life, or at least claims not to. He thought he and Desiree were broken up when he started sleeping with Terri. He thought Terri was fine, over her little bout with PPD. He thought everything was ok and that she did not want to kill him. He thought Kyron was just as sad to visit to Desiree as he was to leave Desiree.

 

[BeanE]

Trouble hit home again when Kyron disappeared. The day after Kyron vanished, Tarver says, James went to the Hormans’ house for a previously planned weeklong visit.http://wweek.com/editorial/3634/14214/

I knew it was Saturday but I back it with a link ^^

Thank you soooooooo much!!!!

:blowkiss:

lol I was going nuts trying to find that article.

 

[Sherbie]

Greetings Sherbie,

I haven't had the opportunity to tell you that I appreciate reading you...I'll take it now. Thanks for the above.

I would like to back your above play by saying that "not my child," but a dear girlfriend was in trouble last week... My daughter phoned and said, "Mom did you know that..." -- and she informed me that my girlfriend, who I love and who lives a 4 hour drive away, was having a medical problem and being transferred to the hospital by ambulance. I was immediately ready to pack the cat, my bag, lock up the house and run to my friend UNTIL I remembered that I had no car (in the shop!) Even though I HATE long distance driving and am quite the hermit, I was ready to kick into motion JUST BECAUSE my friend was noted to be in some kind of health problem. Fortunately, I knew my dear husband was running to my friend at the hospital (and almost at ER) and that my daughter (an RN) was amped/on call and ready to go to advocate too (she did go later to evaluate). I sat at command central, making scads of calls everywhere, learning/informing, my friend's husband, my husband, our friends/daughter, her kids, etc. and was ready to rent a car if I thought anyone was missing a beat.

Bottomline, the above was about a medical emergency for a friend. I knew my friend was alive and I knew my emissaries were in place, I knew my friend was getting medical care. IF this had been my 7 year old grandson, reported as missing for hours, there wouldn't have been a thing on earth that would have prevented me -- emissaries or not -- from getting to where he was last seen AND I am "only" grandmother.

I am gobsmacked to hear that Terri might have wondered at Desiree heading to where her son was last seen (how do we know if this is true?) IF there is any truth to Terri wondering why Desiree headed to the school where Kyron was last seen, this would be yet another pointer to me that Terri is in outer space (not unlike FB happy faces, poking considerations, and all together lack of "normal" responses when given opportunity).

Why, thank you, Wrinkles! I very much enjoy your posts as well!

We really don't have any way to know whether Terri actually did show surprise; that could well be a subjective interpretation by Desiree or could be entirely accurate. Like you, though, if it's accurate, "gobsmacked" is a good word to describe my take on it, too.

 

[Sherbie]

If Terri is innocent, and if Terri knew she took Kyron to school that day and left him there, then him being marked absent wouldn't make sense to her. She would assume the school was confused because she would've known that he had, in fact, been at school that day. And, in fact, he had been at school that day.

Desiree and Kaine admitted Kyron had trouble following directions. When Kyron was not on the school bus, the first thought by Kaine was not that Kyron had been harmed, but that Kyron had become confused about where he was going to be picked up. Had this or something similar happened before to cause Kaine to assume Kyron was confused?

All I'm saying is that if Terri is innocent and if Kyron struggled with following directions, and there was a history of him becoming confused, then because Terri knew Kyron had been at school that day, she might not have been as worried then as we know she should have been now. We have the benefit of looking back on that day two months later, and knowing, for certain, that something terrible happened. At the time, though, while worried, there could've been other mitigating factors that didn't cause her or Kaine to assume the worst.

If Terri was told that Kyron had been marked absent and already knew he wasn't on the bus, looks like that would be plenty enough to push the panic button. If she is innocent of any wrongdoing and that didn't cause her extreme alarm, I'd say something was very wrong with her way of thinking. JMO.

 

[Aedrys]

Normally, I would agree, but Desiree is accusing Terri of lying about her early relationship with Kaine, and using that lie as further proof of Terri's history of lying. If Kaine told Terri the relationship between him and Desiree was over, she would not think they'd had an affair. This belief would would manifest itself in how Terri described her relationship with Kaine to others. To Desiree it would seem like Terri was constantly lying about it, since Desiree is accusing Kaine of an affair, but in reality Terri could be telling the truth. This is a lie Kaine is helping and/or has helped facilitate. From the start, this would've biased Desiree against Terri. How many other of Terri's lies might be explained in a similar manner?

We're talking about a woman publicly accusing another woman of abducting her son. This is not a minor accusation. I want to know if Terri does, indeed, have a history of lying. I do absolutely believe that's important in this case. I also want to know if Desiree just doesn't like Terri, if she's held a grudge against her since she came into Kaine's life. I absolutely believe that has a bearing on this case and Desiree's very public, very vocal proclamations and accusations against Terri.

I'm sorry, but if I started dating a man that was still living with his pregnant wife, and he told me it was over, I wouldn't believe it. I highly doubt that Terri just dumbly thought it was over and had no idea that they were still together. Maybe love is blind, but that is an obvious situation there that couldn't be ignored. I'm more apt to believe DY that TH is liar than that TH is so dumb she couldn't see what was right before her eyes. And if she is that dumb, no way would she ever attempt to kidnap/murder a child and get away with it. I think some people are seriously underestimating TH's intellect here.

And just because two people made bad choices in their lives doesn't give a third person a right to do something horrible like kidnap or murder a child to get back at them. I don't see most people choosing to do something so horrible. TH CHOSE to do this and she is going to suffer the consequences for it, no matter how non-perfect KH and DY are. I don't care if KH and DY are somehow her motivation, that doesn't mean that's good or just motivation to hurt an innocent child. Just because they are dysfunctional doesn't mean TH gets a pass on this or that she had good reason to do what she did. Lord, KH and DY just can't get a break, but apparently TH is supposed to get all the breaks in the world, and Kyron is still missing in all of this.

 

[Sherbie]

Thank you soooooooo much!!!!

:blowkiss:

lol I was going nuts trying to find that article.

BeanE, I love your new hat! :crazy:

Wonder what all's gonna eventually shake out of that entire family tree.

 

[Kimster]

This thread is going to close in a few minutes. Please feel free to take out one of the many issues and make a topic thread. For example "Kyron's bedroom" would be a nice one where we can get to know more about Kyron.

 

[Sherbie]

I'm sorry, but if I started dating a man that was still living with his pregnant wife, and he told me it was over, I wouldn't believe it. I highly doubt that Terri just dumbly thought it was over and had no idea that they were still together. Maybe love is blind, but that is an obvious situation there that couldn't be ignored. I'm more apt to believe DY that TH is liar than that TH is so dumb she couldn't see what was right before her eyes. And if she is that dumb, no way would she ever attempt to kidnap/murder a child and get away with it. I think some people are seriously underestimating TH's intellect here.

And just because two people made bad choices in their lives doesn't give a third person a right to do something horrible like kidnap or murder a child to get back at them. I don't see most people choosing to do something so horrible. TH CHOSE to do this and she is going to suffer the consequences for it, no matter how non-perfect KH and DY are. I don't care if KH and DY are somehow her motivation, that doesn't mean that's good or just motivation to hurt an innocent child. Just because they are dysfunctional doesn't mean TH gets a pass on this or that she had good reason to do what she did. Lord, KH and DY just can't get a break, but apparently TH is supposed to get all the breaks in the world, and Kyron is still missing in all of this.

Yeah, Terri wasn't a naive, young little thing. She was over 30, educated, had been married herself, was already a mother. No way, IMO, that she would believe his marriage was completely and totally over while he was still living with his pregnant wife, no matter what he told her.