2010.11.30 - Discussion of Documents, re: Rape Allegations, TSY and LJY

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I've been out of the loop completely and don't have a clue as to who BM, SY, JY, LJY and all these initials y'all are throwing out belong to... Thinking now, maybe thats a good thing considering it is being reported she was raped, hit in the head...That poor precious child...
Zahra, I'm so sorry for all the EVIL you had to endure and was subjected to during your short time here on this earth.. R.I.P. Sweet Angel...
 
Did LE ever find out when Zahra was last seen, by someone other than a family member?

If this type of abuse was going on, the length of time since she was last seen may give a good indication how long.
 
the seeker said:
Sadly, I agree with you. I have long thought they had been involving Zahra in some sort of sick activities, and if this rape is true, then I further believe that perhaps they were "selling" her, be it for drugs or money. If this is the kind of company these two kept and allowed around their child, then its not too far off. Obviously if AB was part of what happened to Z after death, then he had to be disregarding her as a human for quite some time, ie. using her as an object. I always thought it was just AB and EB involved in whatever perverse things that were going on; looks like I might have been wrong about that. Could be that she was raped at the other location, and injured, then transported home (blood in vehicle) where she died, and then was, you know (I cant type it right now)....
Click to expand...

BBM
yes, I agree and through all of this h3LL she "SMILED LIKE A STAR!'
AB doesn't know his daughters period from bleeding from a rape????
Brooding from pain? Did zahra bleed to death from the rape???
 
This may seem like a stupid question comming from a 46 yr old woman. If this wasnt the first time she was sexually assaulted would she bleed? Unless they used a weapon of somesort and cut her. If that happened I could see her bleeding to death. were there no "NORMAL" adults in this whole group of people? Most familys have one or two strange people in them but the WHOLE GROUP. I just dont get it....
 
westsidefox64 said:
This may seem like a stupid question comming from a 46 yr old woman. If this wasnt the first time she was sexually assaulted would she bleed? Unless they used a weapon of somesort and cut her. If that happened I could see her bleeding to death. were there no "NORMAL" adults in this whole group of people? Most familys have one or two strange people in them but the WHOLE GROUP. I just dont get it....
Click to expand...

Even if it wasn't the first time - if two men raped a 10 year old it is very possible (likely even) that they could tear or do damage that would cause bleeding (even severe bleeding).
ETA: We do not know what these men could have done to her either. Forced anal penetration can cause severe bleeding and the witnesses may not have known that's where it was coming from. Gah. I hate to even type that.
 
passionflower said:
Police did not remove the mattress
http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/Search-warrants-in-Zahra-Baker-case-unsealed-111070214.html
Click to expand...

Thank You for posting that. It's starting to sound like these two men accused may not have raped Zahra? Would there be a reason the witness who told on them was trying to help EB wiggle out of this?

I'd tend to believe the man on the video more than EB. I don't think just every man with a criminal record would be capable of doing that to a little girl. Neither seems to have crimes against children on their records, that I know of.

Why not take that man's mattress? EB's the one who can't pass a poly. This man passed the poly. What do you all think?
 
I'm certain that LE gathered all the evidence they felt was required pertaining to the alleged rape incident. Perhaps it wasn't neccesary to take the entire mattress...perhaps samples and pictures were taken instead, perhaps a piece of the mattress was removed, perhaps tests were done on site, lots of possibilities.

JMO
 
I can't stop thinking about Rowan Ford. Remember her step father went on T.V. crying? Turns out it was him and his friend who raped and killed her. I'm not saying this is the case at all but for whatever reason she keeps coming into my mind. I'm trying to stick with the facts however Rowan keeps coming into my head.
 
Curious Me said:
Thank You for posting that. It's starting to sound like these two men accused may not have raped Zahra? Would there be a reason the witness who told on them was trying to help EB wiggle out of this?

I'd tend to believe the man on the video more than EB. I don't think just every man with a criminal record would be capable of doing that to a little girl. Neither seems to have crimes against children on their records, that I know of.

Why not take that man's mattress? EB's the one who can't pass a poly. This man passed the poly. What do you all think?
Click to expand...

I can convince myself of either side of the argument.

If LE did not take the mattress and does not seriously believe these two raped a child it is a travesty that these documents were released with their names and nothing from LE saying they were cleared. Their lives would be destroyed.

And LE did not take the mattress at the time of the interview, doesn't mean they didn't go back to court and get a search warrant to retrieve it afterwards. We haven't seen all the warrants yet. And the accused said he passed a lie detector test, not LE. Misty and Ron Cummings said they passed one too. Doesn't make it a fact.

And if my name was released via fourth hand information in connection with such a horrifying crime I would be going crazy. My attorney would be on every news source that would talk to him. I wouldn't be giving peaceful, calm interviews about how this just ain't true. Or not taking calls.

Not sure either side is true. Not sure she was gang raped as described, and not sure I think these two are semi innocent bystanders to EB.
 
Curious Me said:
Thank You for posting that. It's starting to sound like these two men accused may not have raped Zahra? Would there be a reason the witness who told on them was trying to help EB wiggle out of this?

I'd tend to believe the man on the video more than EB. I don't think just every man with a criminal record would be capable of doing that to a little girl. Neither seems to have crimes against children on their records, that I know of.

Why not take that man's mattress? EB's the one who can't pass a poly. This man passed the poly. What do you all think?
Click to expand...

EB didn't make the rape allegations. They were made by a third (fourth) party to LE. Also, do you have a link that confirms that LJY and SY passed poly's ??
 
Mountain_Kat said:
I'm certain that LE gathered all the evidence they felt was required pertaining to the alleged rape incident. Perhaps it wasn't neccesary to take the entire mattress...perhaps samples and pictures were taken instead, perhaps a piece of the mattress was removed, perhaps tests were done on site, lots of possibilities.

JMO
Click to expand...

I sure hope so. I sure hope the took the upper layer of the mattress, but if they did, wouldn't that still be a seizure of evidence and be listed as such?
 
bellyup said:
EB didn't make the rape allegations. They were made by a third (fourth) party to LE. Also, do you have a link that confirms that LJY and SY passed poly's ??
Click to expand...

One them refused the poly.
 
passionflower said:
BBM
yes, I agree and through all of this h3LL she "SMILED LIKE A STAR!'
AB doesn't know his daughters period from bleeding from a rape????
Brooding from pain? Did zahra bleed to death from the rape???
Click to expand...

I'm leaning towards possibly Zahra dying from this supposed head injury. It's so easy to die from something like -- remember Natasha Richardson. It could have been just hours after she was supposedly taken home and put on her bed in her 'prison cell' that death occurred maybe from bleeding in the brain. I had a co-worker many years ago who was dead in the morning after her husband swung around and knocked her on the side of the forehead during a heated argument about money the night before. He didn't think he hurt her 'that bad' and went to bed. In the morning, he found her on the floor dead not far from where they had the argument. BACK TO ZAHRA - It doesn't take much to break a vessel if hit in the 'right spot' and go unconscious and then die after something like that. If someone were on drugs and did it, they would have done it pretty hard, I would think.

I'd like to think that when Zahra's soul left that beaten body, a dozen angels rushed to carry her upward to total peace and bliss.
 
I am not sure how much credence I am willing to give these allegations. Still up in the air. I do feel that EB and SY had a relationship but am unsure if I believe it was sexual in nature or just drug related.

As to the rape allegations I find it very interesting that this all supposedly happened months before Zahra went missing and therefore months prior to her being seen alive and with no obvious injury by the furniture store employees. I must ask myself. If what the witnesses who allege these things say is true, why then were they only compelled to act now, when it is all these months later?

ETA MOO bad blood among parties led to this allegation. Nothing more.
 
bellyup said:
EB didn't make the rape allegations. They were made by a third (fourth) party to LE. Also, do you have a link that confirms that LJY and SY passed poly's ??
Click to expand...


I believe one of them did pass a poly. I know EB didn't make the rape allegations.

I was just making a remark after watching the video, and then assuming that if LE hadn't taken the mattress, perhaps these men could be innocent of raping Zahra. It's going to take awhile to get all the facts of this case straight.

news video here
http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/Searc...111070214.html
 
MsFacetious said:
In what WORLD do you wait until 5 days after a child goes missing to report this?

In what world does a mother, stepmother, dad's girlfriend, nanny, first time babysitter, or some lady off the street... come to pick up a child, see that and NOT take her straight to the hospital? (Unless of course, that's why the woman left that child there in the first place.)

It does not say when the original source told B who told J who told the cops. Or how the original source found out, if EB told them or if they personally witnessed it.

Regardless... why didn't that original source pick up the phone and call immediately? Either when Zahra went missing or when they got this information? Why tell someone else instead of LE? How did they know that these same men had not abducted Zahra to keep her in their basement?

If that original source knew about this before Zahra disappeared, especially if that person witnessed anything personally...that person should be charged in my opinion. :twocents:
Click to expand...

The wording "when the mother came back..." [warrant here] still makes me think that EB was the one who shared this horrible piece of info with BM. I don't want to start speculating on what the "correct" way to react to something like this is (as I think every single one of us would say: CALL - THE - COPS), but I think we need to consider the source.
  • EB has been considered a liar by pretty much everyone who knows her. Her grown children, ex, and numerous others have attested to this. Sleuthing of her public myspace/fbook sites have unearthed more obvious lies ("I'm dying!" etc)
  • EB's jailhouse letters to Gein, IMO, paint a very clear picture of what she was probably like in person, at least around people she wanted to appear "cool" in front of. I bet it was impossible to get through a conversation with her without hearing about how much goths rule... or how alternative she is... 666...gothic faeire forever... etc. My humble opinion only, but I bet that type of stuff would manage to come up even if you, say... just asked her for the time, or how the whether was. I bet it was pretty difficult to get a coherant answer out of her.
  • Details about EB's IMVU/fantasy life indicate to me (JMO) that she likely walked a fine or blurred line between fantasy and reality: marrying someone she met online, having tattoos of her online avatars, etc. etc.
When you combine those factors, I woudn't be surprised if most people around EB tended to not beleive - or perhaps not always even understand - most of the stuff that came out of her mouth.

Then you add the allegations of drug use to that mix...

I don't know if EB telling BM is truly what happened... but if it was, I can see how it might not have sounded the alarm. I just picture EB as being constantly rambling about gory nonsense - blood! goths! evil! 666! Maybe in that sense, some random line about a bleeding child didn't seem that out of place.

Until of course, the story broke. jmo
 
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