2011.05.04 Verdict Watch

[Madflava]

He didn't wipe all traces of anything. He discarded a router. Specifically, a 3825 router. Cisco has call logs that show, on 7/11/08 around 10:30pm Cooper using that router. That's the router. They chose not to bring that particular Cisco employee into court during rebuttal. But it does exist. We heard all about it on the WRAL feed.

He also erased the test calls on his cell phone so they would not appear in the call log. But those calls do appear on the AT&T records.

The defense isn't saying someone hacked into Nancy's RR email and set it up. Yet Brad did it. Got caught doing it. They recovered emails showing he READ the forwarded emails too. Showed those right on the overhead screen in court. I was there that particular day. Saw it with my own two eyes.

No amount of spin can change the basic facts of this case or of this murder.

Like I said. You want him guilty so it doesnt matter what I say and that's fine.

Maybe he did it, maybe he didnt. The case was handled so badly that we'll never know for sure. I just look at it like this. Everyone is hung up on all the things he did which I agree as a collective look kind of bad but if the call was proven to in fact not be spoofed but you had the rest of this evidence to look at, what would you think then?

I know people who had done all the stuff this guy did. Yea it looks kind of bad when you're on trial for murder but all this stuff is not outside the realm of possibility of someone doing it just because they're divorcing. Im really surprised he didnt use a keylogger or something else hard to detect given that he was an "expert."

Last but not least, someone brought up the sep agreement above and Ive been waiting to comment on that. I am good friends with one of the partners at one of Raleigh's biggest family law firms and I specifically asked them about Alice Stubbs outside the context of this case and this is pretty much a word for word quote. "I dont even bother looking at her first draft of a separation agreement because they are always ridiculous." After seeing what they were demanding of Brad, I have to say, I agree.

 

[Bottle Cap]

Murder happened to Laci Peterson. Scott was not an abusive husband prior to her murder. I'm not sure I understand your point. Would you call Scott Peterson an abuser prior to December 24th?

It takes a certain mentality to be an abuser, just as it takes a certain mentality to be a cold-blooded murderer. Until the murderer murders, you do not know that mentality exists. Same with abuse.

 

[Queen Bee]

LOL

every time I see it I think "if the wind changes you'll stay like that" lol

:floorlaugh:

 

[Danielle59]

A former girlfriend of BCs that posted back in 2008. Look in yesterdays thread for posts from momto3kids and you will see the relevant posts.

Thanks

 

[gracielee]

There were two things testified to that I thought gave a glimpse into the hidden life inside the house. One was when Nancy wanted to buy a balloon or something for the birthday party. Brad wouldn't give her the money and someone else (I believe it was her sister) offered to give her the money and Nancy said something like, "No. I would just be in trouble at home."

The other of course was watching her own house waiting for the lights to go out. What was she avoiding in that house?

You are so right. There were a couple times Nancy said things like that, to her family mostly. 'Please don't do/buy that for me, you can leave but I have to stay.....' So telling. So very telling that something really *different* was going on in private.

 

[Lori59]

This discussion came up a few weeks ago but I'll ask it again. If you are in a relationship and there is only one primary earner, lets say you start looking at finances and realize that the lifestyle that you were living was not sustainable based on the income coming in. At that point there needs to be some hard choices on what can and cannot be done. Would you agree that both parties need to be fully on board for that to work out properly? What happens if one is not?

I never agreed to him removing her from accounts/cc's/etc. He went about it extremely wrong. But I don't think it's unreasonable to put everyone on a budget or at least make some serious sacrafices in order to get bills paid/groceries bought/etc. Could that not had been the situation here with the 300 bucks a week?

All sounds logical for a working marriage. Fact is, he made these financial limits once the divorce was going ahead, which makes his choices disingenuous. My advice to my daughter and all woman, is to keep your financial independence and working ability.

 

[gbay]

That's hard to say. She had rekindled contact with a very wealthy guy named Brett that she was seeing in 1999. She talked about living with her sister in Ottawa until she was on her feet. She had asked Brad to purchase an interview outfit for interviews she apparently had set up in Canada, but no information was ever provided about those interviews. My experience with interviews is that they are set up within 7-10 days of the first phone call, but I didn't get the impression that Nancy was attending interviews in that timeline, nor that she had a telephone interview. I did get the impression that Nancy told people what she wanted them to know. For example, she told complete strangers personal details about her marriage, possibly because she wanted them to validate that it was a bad marriage, and possibly because she wanted their sympathy. At the same time, she was probably having a very different type of conversation with her "new guy" Brett. Her parents heard of hardship and in that context they gave her a lot of money. I don't think we'll ever know what direction Nancy really wanted to go, and I'm not convinced that she knew where she wanted to go. We have everything from taking the children and leaving the country to working to staying to contacting a realtor (have to wonder why). We heard from her father that she had asked for a loan to buy Brad's interest in the house, so it may even be possible that her parents were prepared to help her buy a house.

I don't think it was Ottawa...but rather Oakville.

When your life is changing through divorce all changes are not cut and dried. One minute you think one thing and the next something else. You must process all the pieces as you go. Some people process the information by talking to others and some poeple internalize the process. Nancy was one that processed with others. I did not find her behaviour odd at all...it just is the way it is!!

 

[Bottle Cap]

I don't think he planned the party, and if he had of said they couldn't afford it then he would be trashed for that. The man could not win.

The man could not win? Against, whom,. NC?

Remind me again who's dead and who's alive in this scenario?

 

[RaleighNC]

She could have left and not gone to Canada. Her family could have supported her. She could have stayed with friends (we know some offered). She could have gone to a shelter. She could have gone to court to try and force a separation that would have allowed her to take the kids back to Canada. Most importantly, she could have presented a reasonable separation agreement that didn't try to devastate BC financially, and maybe he would have actually signed it. There is reason to believe he would have since he agreed to her going initially. Maybe she needed to adjust her thinking on what the lifestyle of a single mom actually was. That probably wouldn't include stuff like private schools for her kids. I fully believe if she had presented something even remotely fair, he would have signed it. But she wanted him to pay and to pay big. She wanted to continue to live the life she was accustomed to. I wouldn't have signed it either. Not a chance in hell would I have signed it. And I wouldn't have let my wife take my kids to another country without my consent. That doesn't make me an abuser.

Nope - it makes you a negotiator.

However, you would not have even considered killing someone as an option instead of divorce....

I sadly think that the warning signs were there and several folks talked their way out of thinking it was possible that she was in danger.

Because her father and her sister so easily jumped to the conclusion that he did something to her - the warning signs were there - just no one wanted to believe it. And - sadly - I am sure Nancy felt them but pushed them aside because it would have been embarrassing for her to admit that she made such a mistake "picking" Brad. There is always some shame in divorce and it suppresses some of the fear / intuition.

 

[less0305]

Laci Peterson wasn't in a domestic violence situation until she was. As she was being strangled or asphyxiated or something by Scott Peterson, her supposedly loving hubby who now sits on death row in CA.

Not every situation starts with the classic signs of pushing/shoving/hitting, etc. We know Brad called Nancy names. He said he NEVER yelled at her in front of the girls, NEVER used profanity in front of the girls. Two witnesses sat on that stand and told us something very different. Two witnesses who were not friends of Nancy, not part of any alleged "clique." Brad lied about that in his affidavit and in his deposition. There is no reason to lie. And yet he did. And he got caught lying.

Brad was a bully. He was subversive. He was passive/aggressive. He was sneaky. He was controlling. Doesn't matter if he was that way for 5 yrs, 1 year or 8 months. That was his behavior.

And in the end, on July 11, Brad, like Scott Peterson, committed his final act of abuse...the physical violence on his wife. He didn't mess around with a few punches and shoves. He killed her.

Sometimes the first time is the last time. Just like Scott Peterson and many others.

I love how you think things out and express it!!! You are sooooooo right here!

 

[jrb0124]

When your life is changing through divorce all changes are not cut and dried. One minute you think one thing and the next something else. You must process all the pieces as you go. Some people process the information by talking to others and some poeple internalize the process. Nancy was one that processed with others. I did not find her behaviour odd at all...it just is the way it is!!

I agree, which is why is it disingenuous to take into account only the 'things' (per BBM) which support the State's/friends case when evaluating NC's 'state of mind'.

 

[raisincharlie]

Does anyone know if Nancy actually wanted to work? The extreme financial numbers of the separation agreement seem to indicate that she still wanted to be a full time stay-at-home mother and was looking for enough money from the estranged ex-husband to support such a goal.

That's why she had job interviews arranged in April when she was going to return to Canada... ?

 

[Bottle Cap]

I agree, which is why is it disingenuous to take into account only the 'things' (per BBM) which support the State's/friends case when evaluating NC's 'state of mind'.

I think this statement is disingenuous - is there any other way to evaluate her "state of mind", given the fact that she's dead and can't give her own answer?

 

[jrb0124]

The man could not win? Against, whom,. NC?

Remind me again who's dead and who's alive in this scenario?

I understood this just fine, and I suspect you do as well: regardless of his intentions, no course of action would be perceived in the best possible light, only the worst.

 

[otto]

Like I said. You want him guilty so it doesnt matter what I say and that's fine.

Maybe he did it, maybe he didnt. The case was handled so badly that we'll never know for sure. I just look at it like this. Everyone is hung up on all the things he did which I agree as a collective look kind of bad but if the call was proven to in fact not be spoofed but you had the rest of this evidence to look at, what would you think then?

I know people who had done all the stuff this guy did. Yea it looks kind of bad when you're on trial for murder but all this stuff is not outside the realm of possibility of someone doing it just because they're divorcing. Im really surprised he didnt use a keylogger or something else hard to detect given that he was an "expert."

Last but not least, someone brought up the sep agreement above and Ive been waiting to comment on that. I am good friends with one of the partners at one of Raleigh's biggest family law firms and I specifically asked them about Alice Stubbs outside the context of this case and this is pretty much a word for word quote. "I dont even bother looking at her first draft of a separation agreement because they are always ridiculous." After seeing what they were demanding of Brad, I have to say, I agree.

If that's true, it may be time for AS to tone it down a bit. She has plenty of experience with volatile divorce situations, and she must know the statistic that the most dangerous time for a woman in the marriage is at the time of separation. If she is writing up separation agreements that are over the top, it's time for her to realize that she is pushing a really big trigger for conflict - which is the very last thing a divorce lawyer should be doing.

 

[CarolinaTitan]

Possible Scenario: BC did scope out possible locations in person while the family was on vacation the week prior. On Friday he was just reviewing his plans for the big night.

He managed to delete the cookies, but missed a few cache files. Perhaps a bug in the "Clear history..." function of Internet Explorer?

Clearing history and deleting cookies in a browser deletes them from one main location, but does not mean that Windows does not have them somewhere else like a logfile folder, backup folders, autorecover folder, etc. Most people don't realize this. I only do because I've spent many many hours cleaning my own computers of viruses, fixing registry entries, etc. I've found browsing traces in a multitude of places that you wouldn't even know existed. Unfortunately, he did it on a work computer and couldn't wipe the hard drive completely clean.

 

[Queen Bee]

geeezzzz louise!! a gal can't even make tuna salad and lunch on the deck with the hub without getting four pages behind!!

thanks for noting when they will be back for lunch, i thought it rude to wear my headphones while dining............:floorlaugh:

eta.......i DID hustle him back downstairs to his office though, i'm on a verdict watch ya know.......lol

 

[jrb0124]

I think this statement is disingenuous - is there any other way to evaluate her "state of mind", given the fact that she's dead and can't give her own answer?

You should re-read the post I was replying to for the full context, and what I was referring to as disingenuous.

If you did read it, then you are agreeing that facts such as: no contact with lawyer in 3 months, couples plans for 7/12, witnesses who testified they seemed fine/normal, etc.. should be ignored because they don't fit the State's case.

 

[CarolinaTitan]

If that's true, it may be time for AS to tone it down a bit. She has plenty of experience with volatile divorce situations, and she must know the statistic that the most dangerous time for a woman in the marriage is at the time of separation. If she is writing up separation agreements that are over the top, it's time for her to realize that she is pushing a really big trigger for conflict - which is the very last thing a divorce lawyer should be doing.

Seriously? So now AS is to blame. Her duty is to get her client the best financial and situational outcome possible...not to worry about how the other spouse deals with the realities of a separation. Every good negotiation starts with a high ball offer. BC should have gotten a lawyer.

 

[Palomine]

I don't think it was Ottawa...but rather Oakville.

When your life is changing through divorce all changes are not cut and dried. One minute you think one thing and the next something else. You must process all the pieces as you go. Some people process the information by talking to others and some poeple internalize the process. Nancy was one that processed with others. I did not find her behaviour odd at all...it just is the way it is!!

it is Oakville/Toronto area
unfortunately Nancy was an extrovert and talked with a lot of people about her troubles...I think Brad was ticked she still was friends with BW and he found that out from intercepting her emails