2011.05.05 Verdict Watch (day 2)

[misstibbs]

Attribution Error - more complicated (and IMHO, more likely what is happening on sites where vicious statements are posted): We all make attributions about other people's behavior. Some of their behaviors, we think, are down to their personal attributes - who they are. Other things we think about their behavior, we ascribe (consciously or unconsciously) to their environmental attributes. An attribution error is made when someone over-emphasizes personal characteristics (NC's role as a housewife rather than working mother, for example) and under-emphasizes environmental factors (NC's inability to legally work). A person's comments, i.e. the ugly Twitter comments about NC, actually say more about the person who is making an error in attribution than it does the victim.

this is REALLY great insight. I have read comments that:

--NC was a bad mother b/c her children went to daycare and she didn't work. In fact, her children went to preschool and most stay at home moms enroll their children in some type of preschool experience before kindergarten

--NC lounged around the pool all the time. There are many stay at home moms who take their kids to the pool multiple times a week or most days of the week in the summer...heck, it's too hot to do much else outside.

--NC was lazy b/c her house was not clean in the photos. Nancy had planned to move and had packed some things then did not move so had to dig into those boxes. Keep in mind that when you are in a really bad relationship/unhappy there is not much motivation to clean the house. Not to mention that most families with small children do not have houses that look tidy all the time. If someone walked into your house at a time not of your choosing what would it look like?

--NC was lazy b/c she should have cleaned up the dishes before leaving for the trip w/ her family. I take my two small children on road trips and it takes FOREVER to get on the road. I can easily see leaving lunch dishes and expecting my husband, who is home alone all week w/ no responsibilities other than work, to take care of it.

These are just a few examples that come to mind where I think people judged Nancy and twisted facts. Both the defense and pro witnesses have all said she was an amazing mother. There is nothing to support the theory that she was lazy.

 

[GhostCrab]

I think that's fair. I would suggest that means motive and opportunity come into play here coupled with a heavy amount of very circumstantial evidence. No one has video of this happening, having said that circumstantial evidence is just as damning.
BC can display qualities but they obviously are just for show. (read ex's affidivit)

I don't believe there is enough CE in this case either. And by that I mean what was testified to and put into evidence in the court. I am not talking about all the presumptions and assumptions that get passed around here as fact. Granted, this is a pro-victim site and I choose to come here, but there are a lot of things posted here that are more rooted in the poster's history and experiences than the actual case.


I think what has happened on other sites shows how ugly people can be in this age of anonymity, a real degradation of society. I think early on in the trial there was a real surprise with the weakness of the state's case, and those early protests seemed to have snowballed into something profane and unfortunate.

 

[Grammy Jean]

The biggest problem I have with the Food Lion guy is he actually said it was about 5 minutes to 7 and he was 90% sure he saw Nancy. Upon a little proding from Mr. Kurtz who expanded that time to up to 10 minutes after 7, he himself began repeating it. This expansion of the time period and the willingness of the witness, who gave a differing time, leaves me thinking the 90% sure thing is a much lower probability than 90%.

What I am disppointed with is that the DA's office did not obtain his time card just to see what time he actually clocked in. But the defense didn't seem to be interested in it either and you can bet if it worked for them they would have produced it. The second thing is, no one even made an effort to determine if it was even possible Nancy could have been that far along on her jog had she even taken the most direct route to the location of the 90% sure sighting or even to Ms. Zednick's location. Seems to me since Carrie Clark was the current running partner, a reasonable estimate could have been made.

Also Rosemary said she was certain it was 7:10, says she checked her watch.. Food Lion Guy expanded time from 6:55 to 7:10. So from that it would be certain they did not see the same jogger. I do not think Rosemary or Food Lion Guy helped the defense at all

 

[GhostCrab]

this is REALLY great insight. I have read comments that:

--NC was a bad mother b/c her children went to daycare and she didn't work. In fact, her children went to preschool and most stay at home moms enroll their children in some type of preschool experience before kindergarten

--NC lounged around the pool all the time. There are many stay at home moms who take their kids to the pool multiple times a week or most days of the week in the summer...heck, it's too hot to do much else outside.

--NC was lazy b/c her house was not clean in the photos. Nancy had planned to move and had packed some things then did not move so had to dig into those boxes. Keep in mind that when you are in a really bad relationship/unhappy there is not much motivation to clean the house. Not to mention that most families with small children do not have houses that look tidy all the time. If someone walked into your house at a time not of your choosing what would it look like?

--NC was lazy b/c she should have cleaned up the dishes before leaving for the trip w/ her family. I take my two small children on road trips and it takes FOREVER to get on the road. I can easily see leaving lunch dishes and expecting my husband, who is home alone all week w/ no responsibilities other than work, to take care of it.

These are just a few examples that come to mind where I think people judged Nancy and twisted facts. Both the defense and pro witnesses have all said she was an amazing mother. There is nothing to support the theory that she was lazy.

I have been here every day, read every thread and I have not seen this at all.

 

[ncsu95]

The biggest problem I have with the Food Lion guy is he actually said it was about 5 minutes to 7 and he was 90% sure he saw Nancy. Upon a little proding from Mr. Kurtz who expanded that time to up to 10 minutes after 7, he himself began repeating it. This expansion of the time period and the willingness of the witness, who gave a differing time, leaves me thinking the 90% sure thing is a much lower probability than 90%.

What I am disppointed with is that the DA's office did not obtain his time card just to see what time he actually clocked in. But the defense didn't seem to be interested in it either and you can bet if it worked for them they would have produced it. The second thing is, no one even made an effort to determine if it was even possible Nancy could have been that far along on her jog had she even taken the most direct route to the location of the 90% sure sighting or even to Ms. Zednick's location. Seems to me since Carrie Clark was the current running partner, a reasonable estimate could have been made.

Do you feel the same way about GM who testified they went to lunch at 1:00 on Friday...but after some gentle prodding by Boz got him to change that to between 1:00 and 1:30? I mean if left for lunch at 1:00, he couldn't have done the search at 1:15 or whatever time it was. So does that make GMs testimony less credible like the Food Lion guy?

 

[ncsu95]

I would like to hear from a person who does not think BDI why you think Brad would ask DF to show him how he can check to see the time someone called him on his cell phone. Then he also told detectives later a friend had showed him how to check his cell phone for the time of a call. This is huge CE for me!

I don't know why he would do that if he killed her or if he didn't.

 

[less0305]

Chris Coleman Verdict Watch: http://www.fox2now.com/news/livestreaming/

Hoping for a Cinco De Mayo Verict for both CC and BC.

CC will be guilty for sure and it won't take long. I'm hoping for guilty for BC - and I'll take it today, tomorrow, or a week from now - as long as it comes back guilty.

 

[yeknomaras]

I'm going to be fired if I don't stop watching both of these cases.

and nothing's even happening yet today! ARGH I can't concentrate.... lol

 

[misstibbs]

I have been here every day, read every thread and I have not seen this at all.

GhostCrab, I beg your pardon...all of those comments were made on GOLO...I only recently came over to this site b/c people on GOLO were accusing me of being Jessica Adam and it really bothered me.

I did not mean to imply that those comments were made on WS.

BTW...I am def not, Jessica Adam, not that anyone here asked.

 

[CyberPro]

Personally, I've gotten worked up over this case because I think that it is a poor example of our due process. There are more and more innocent people put into prisons and jails every single day. That bothers me and I believe that it should bother all of us. Holding the police and the prosecutors under a microscope before they take away a person's freedoms should be normal and automatic in our society.

BZ and the rest of the prosecutors don't know anymore than I do if BC is guilty. I am certainly not going to trust them just because they INSIST on it and want me to believe it. I want evidence. I want more than gossip and hearsay and maybes and probablys. Yes, BC is a creep but there must of been SOMETHING redeeming about him. Why else would someone like NC have married him? You can read between the lines all day long and make assumptions based on past cases and your own histories, but for me, to put someone in jail I need google searches with VALID timestamps. JMO obviously.

Well Said GhostCrab.

I know that you have mentioned that you are an attorney. I don't know if you are active in your practice, how many years of experience you have, or what area of law you focus on.

I will say that there has to be a happy median here though. I agree that the prosecution should be held to a high standard, but there are places where the rights of the accused seem to trump the rights of the victim(s) and the public. Take, for example, the defense attempting to exclude evidence. In the JLY case, the cash gas receipt. Now, I have not REALLY followed that case, but I am aware of the basics. If that receipt exists, and there is someone who says she sold JLY the gas and he paid cash for it, why on earth should that be excluded? Because it makes him look guilty? There has to be a point that if someone did a crime, it does not get plead down, it does not get thrown out, and they do real and HARD time for it. It was not because of their childhood traumas, the way their parents raised them, or because they were picked last for the softball team. They have to put on their big boy britches and take the consequences of their choices. I seriously doubt that anyone on this board has had a completely smooth ride their entire lives. We can all point out things that have happened in our past that either we are still dealing with, or that have traumatized us in some way, but that is the stuff of life. It ain't pretty, but it is a fact.

This case captivated me because it happened very close to my home, and there was a technical angle to it. Based upon following this case pretty closely (dons asbestos underwear) I am convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that BC commited this crime, and that it was premeditated. Are their things in the case that I wish were handled differently? Sure. Would it have likely impacted my decisions? Probably not. I seriously don't belive the computer was hacked (at least not in the usual sense of the word, BC might have attempted to destroy files). I don't think there was anything on the NC phone that would change my mind about the decision, and I do think the calls, which were his strongest alibi were staged by BC. When I combine that with the probability that all of the other things that HAD to happen over that weekend all attained a cosmic confluence to make it look like he was guilty, I cannot buy into those mathmatics. The odds against all this stuff happening to one person at the same time make winning the powerball look like a foregone conclusion if you only bought one ticket. Can it happen that way? Sure. Is it likely? Hardly!!

IMO and so forth.

 

[GhostCrab]

GhostCrab, I beg your pardon...all of those comments were made on GOLO...I only recently came over to this site b/c people on GOLO were accusing me of being Jessica Adam and it really bothered me.

I did not mean to imply that those comments were made on WS.

BTW...I am def not, Jessica Adam, not that anyone here asked.

That's OK, and I can relate, as I have been accused of being an employee of Kurtz and Blum (on here.)

 

[unknown403]

I don't believe there is enough CE in this case either. And by that I mean what was testified to and put into evidence in the court. I am not talking about all the presumptions and assumptions that get passed around here as fact. Granted, this is a pro-victim site and I choose to come here, but there are a lot of things posted here that are more rooted in the poster's history and experiences than the actual case.


I think what has happened on other sites shows how ugly people can be in this age of anonymity, a real degradation of society. I think early on in the trial there was a real surprise with the weakness of the state's case, and those early protests seemed to have snowballed into something profane and unfortunate.

Interesting about the CE. 100 cents make a dollar and every cent by itself is nothing but at what point do we look at the sum of pennies and say...yeah, It's a dollar. Taking all of the actions over a few months I think there is more than enough to say guilty of m1. Agree to disagree I guess.

 

[SleuthinNC]

Evidence request from jury (put together using news and video research from other posters as well - sunshine for the DEF customer loyalty recs). Does this look correct? **updated with phone rec info - thx kantoo**


STATE#s 2,3 (crime scene photos)

NC upper back
NC lower back


STATE#5 (misidentified by jury as photo - clarification request)

VFD dispatch report 7/14


STATE#6 (misidentified by jury as photo - clarification request)

WCSO deputy's notes from 7/14


STATE#s 58,59,60

Det. Dismukes photos of master bathroom (shower, shower door)


STATE#s 32,303,304,321

304: BC phone 6:43 476-2001 6:45 & 6:47 voice mail.
32: 6:05am line 6:34am call cell tower info O=other M=At&T m=other AT&T VMB=routed to voice mail SMS=text
321: mobile terminating records


DEFENSE#170 (HT receipts)

the following HT purchases:
3/18/08,milk purchased at 1:29AM
4/27/08 Milk, bananas and green juice purchased 1:10AM


DEFENSE#4 (customer loyalty records BJs)

BJ's receipts that showed the 30 bottles of Tide purchased over 3 years


Depositions: 600,601,602

BC entire 7 hour deposition for the Oct 08 civil custody case. A transcript of it that was introduced into evidence shows that portions had been redacted and withheld from the jury, which jurors are unaware of. Instead of offering the entire deposition for their deliberations, the judge told the jury he needed to know more about what they wanted. jury did not send clarification Wednesday.

MOO

This list to me looks a lot like they may be verifying something(s) from Trenkle's reasonable doubt list.

 

[Madeleine74]

Hmmm....2 hr lunch. Juror wears a suit. Poor guy probably has a job interview today. And he just got outed, sort of. His boss at his current job may want some 'splainin done. d'oh!

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

I'm going to be fired if I don't stop watching both of these cases.

and nothing's even happening yet today! ARGH I can't concentrate.... lol

LOL!!! Makes 2 of us. Whether G or NG - if we're fired could start own biz "Real Investigations".

Seriously, I refer to an earlier post of yours a few pages back re Twitter. I was lurking there - and was as horrified to read the trashy, downright despicable comments and foul language (F words, the "woix") going on. Wral's twitterpage has descended into a cesspool of utter depravity.

Irrespective of what type of lifestyle any victime lives - to be hunted down and slain by another is and remains senseless. Those TWITS cheer death on. They constantly snark, laugh, sneer and guffaw. Horrible.

----------------------->

To all - does anyone (Gs and NGs) think there may be any hint or a likelihood of a hung jury? J/A

 

[Cheyenne130]

On a side note, we currently have 127 people on the Nancy Cooper forum. (48 members and 79 guests) It seems there are quite a few people interested in what is said on this forum even though they don't have a desire to participate.

 

[lonetraveler]

Hmmm....2 hr lunch. Juror wears a suit. Poor guy probably has a job interview today. And he just got outed, sort of. His boss at his current job may want some 'splainin done. d'oh!

Jurors do tend to dress up a bit on verdict day.

 

[gbay]

Also Rosemary said she was certain it was 7:10, says she checked her watch.. Food Lion Guy expanded time from 6:55 to 7:10. So from that it would be certain they did not see the same jogger. I do not think Rosemary or Food Lion Guy helped the defense at all

I thought RZ was not a credible witness at all....I did find her testimony a bit humerous though!!

 

[lib's mom]

Have they come back from lunch? Anybody watch the feed?

 

[SleuthinNC]

I don't get to use coupons much because I don't buy many boxed items, commercial foods. I use BJ's coupons for bulk buying, like laundry detergent, paper towels, soap and tp, but other than that, we mostly buy organic and fresh foods. Even frozen vegetables, I only buy organic and it's rare to find coupons for stuff like that.

The past few months the availability of organic coupons has gotten so much better! I think there is finally enough competition among brands to make coupons happen. My little one is on a special diet so we are a mostly organic, fresh food household as well. Mambo Sprouts has helped our budget tremendously.