2011.05.11 Kc sick removed from court

[OneLostGrl]

This is exactly what Raynaud's looks like. I am not convinced she was having a panic attack and I did not ever see her hyperventilating. She was having pain from Raynaud's symptoms and this is why she constantly rubs her hands together. The white fingers with purple on the ends is just how my son and my father's hands look when they are having trouble with Raynaud's and it can be very painful. JMO and I am not saying I have sympathy for her as a previous poster mentioned that they thought some posters were, just stating my opinion of the reason for her hand pain and hand rubbing behavior.

Wow, I have never heard of Raynaud's... Sounds painful- sorry your dad and son have to deal with that .

I always just felt all her fidgeting, pulling and yanking was a self soothing tool and a way for her to dissociate from the reality she is faced with at the moment (I don't believe she is a psychopath, I believe she does feel and this is her way of not having to feel her emotions.) I'm a (recovering) self injurer and 2 of the things I still find myself doing is I pick my skin (mostly my head, i dunno why) and scrape my fingernails over top of my thumbs as a way to sooth myself and "go somewhere else" in my head. I can sit for long periods doing nothing but picking at my skin. LOL, strange I know, but it gets me where I need to be (outside of my own head) for that time frame. Casey seems, to me, to be doing something similar because she does it in times of extreme stress or when she appears to be put on the spot.

I'm going to look up Raynaud's because it very well could be she has something like that!

 

[OneLostGrl]

I totally understand! I have to be honest and say this case gripped me from day one and as it sits with me watching most of the live feed from WESH site daily (they have the best live feed) I feel (in my opinion) she is guilty of this murder, and I (although it pains me to say) would vote for the DP in this case. If I were a juror and had all the evidence the state will lay out, in front of me... and I will add that being that I have followed this case very closely, I do not excuse CA at all, because I feel she has this personality disorder, but that I want justice to be served for Caylee Anthony. In my opinion, CA is guilty of 1st degree murder and it is just sad (to me) that her family did not see the signs early on, while Caylee was alive, and intervened and got CA the help she needed. Just my wee little opinion.

Ohh they saw the signs they just enabled her instead of holding her accountable or getting help for her. imo

Your opinion isn't "wee" :blowkiss:

 

[nosylla]

Wow, I have never heard of Raynaud's... Sounds painful- sorry your dad and son have to deal with that .

I always just felt all her fidgeting, pulling and yanking was a self soothing tool and a way for her to dissociate from the reality she is faced with at the moment (I don't believe she is a psychopath, I believe she does feel and this is her way of not having to feel her emotions.) I'm a (recovering) self injurer and 2 of the things I still find myself doing is I pick my skin (mostly my head, i dunno why) and scrape my fingernails over top of my thumbs as a way to sooth myself and "go somewhere else" in my head. I can sit for long periods doing nothing but picking at my skin. LOL, strange I know, but it gets me where I need to be (outside of my own head) for that time frame. Casey seems, to me, to be doing something similar because she does it in times of extreme stress or when she appears to be put on the spot.

I'm going to look up Raynaud's because it very well could be she has something like that!

I think these are all tied together. My family member did all what you mentioned you have problems with, the self injuring. You are right on with "this is her way of not having to feel her emotions". You hit the nail on the head!! Also a symptom of anxiety disorder. (AKA which is a disorder that spreads itself out into a wide range of personality disorders and destructive behaviors) Thank you OneLostGirl.

What a great group of sharp people here!

 

[Just Jayla]

I'm sure someone discussed already-But how is this episode different than when Lt. Uncer watched her hands do funny things the day KC found out Caylee's body had been discovered?
KC complained that her handcuffs were squeezing her when they were not, as if they were supersensitive. She did hyperventilate that day, IIRC.
So, she goes bonkers when the fact that she killed Caylee is brought before her. Like Dr. Vass reading a gas chroma-thingy, we can read her reactions, and there are spikes in her reactions to this particular subject unlike any other.
Even if it's acting, she feels the subject of Caylee dying is the moment for the show to go on-that's still a reaction.
Put a big flashing sign over her head that reads "Baby Killer" and get on with it.

 

[nosylla]

Ohh they saw the signs they just enabled her instead of holding her accountable or getting help for her. imo

Your opinion isn't "wee" :blowkiss:

Absolutely! Another moment of you "hitting the nail on the head!" :innocent:

 

[faefrost]

This is exactly what Raynaud's looks like. I am not convinced she was having a panic attack and I did not ever see her hyperventilating. She was having pain from Raynaud's symptoms and this is why she constantly rubs her hands together. The white fingers with purple on the ends is just how my son and my father's hands look when they are having trouble with Raynaud's and it can be very painful. JMO and I am not saying I have sympathy for her as a previous poster mentioned that they thought some posters were, just stating my opinion of the reason for her hand pain and hand rubbing behavior.

Hyperventilating isn't the big "gasping for air" appearance that TV drama have taught us it is. It's simply involuntarily breathing too fast to properly support metabolism. While it is difficult to get a good count from the video, what little I see seems to show her breathing at well over 120 breathes a minute, and probably getting closer to somewhere between 150 and 180. Somewhere between 2 and three breathes a second. This will cause the hand cramping and tingling that was displayed today. While this can be caused by some physiological issue, it is most often caused by extremes of anxiety or stress. As some will loosely call it "panic attacks". When it's occurrence is concurrent with actual real world stressors, such as say high pressure college exams or your daughters body being found in the woods where you dumped her, or the states toughest judge signalling the start of your capital first degree murder trial by telling the world outright what you stand accused of doing, then it doesn't really indicate any deep or ongoing physiological or physiological issues. I think the defendant having a bit of a stress spell at the start of their death penalty trial is not unexpected by anyone. Nor will it in any way slow or derail the proceedings.

 

[claudicici]

I agree this was definitely not a panic attack but I also agree that anxiety goes hand in hand with insecurity (at least for me) I think until yesterday KC was able to hold it together ok because JB gave her that security (she was probably convinced he's in love with her,just like any guy) and that stopped when he told her she was acting like a two year old.
Just like lost girl ,I never believed KC is a sociopath but she definitely disassociates from reality (obviously) I never thought her crying is fake,on the contrary I think she tries hard not to.I think crying was an absolute taboo in the Anthony household where everything is kept light and hidden not to upset Mrs.CA.I think to her crying means loosing total control.I think from the time she entered the courtroom today she was falling apart because JB was ignoring her.She is starving for his sympathy so she can concentrate on that otherwise the fact that she murdered her daughter will become real for her and she is not going to handle it IMO

 

[Brassband]

I Image googled Raynauds and to me KC just looks like she's clasping her hands so tight she's cutting off the circulation.
[ame="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=raynauds&cp=4&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1024&bih=592"]raynauds - Google Search[/ame]

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I have secondary Raynaud's caused by a rare immune system disease. It is my understanding through research that my personal experience with the disease is common in that only the digits are involved ~ not the entire hand or foot. If her whole hand was involved it would be quite rare. It appeared to me that she was indicating that her hand (as she was showing her palms) was what was bothering her.

In a serious flare, my finger (or several fingers) will first turn white then a deep, deep purple. That's when it's painful. You can even see a distinctive line, usually for me at the second joint, where it changes dramatically from normal color to the white or purple.

So based on my years of personal experience and diligent researching for relief, I would be surprised if Casey has Raynaud's. If she does, it's certainly an atypical presentation.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I Image googled Raynauds and to me KC just looks like she's clasping her hands so tight she's cutting off the circulation.
raynauds - Google Search

Yes, perfect, Brassband. I should have been as smart as you and just linked the images instead of trying to describe it. These pictures are exactly what it looks like on me. Thanks!

 

[Cross Creek]

Just watched video for first time and noticed NEITHER Baez or Mason showed any concern at all....so I think your statement above could refer to BOTH of them!

I agree this was definitely not a panic attack but I also agree that anxiety goes hand in hand with insecurity (at least for me) I think until yesterday KC was able to hold it together ok because JB gave her that security (she was probably convinced he's in love with her,just like any guy) and that stopped when he told her she was acting like a two year old.
Just like lost girl ,I never believed KC is a sociopath but she definitely disassociates from reality (obviously) I never thought her crying is fake,on the contrary I think she tries hard not to.I think crying was an absolute taboo in the Anthony household where everything is kept light and hidden not to upset Mrs.CA.I think to her crying means loosing total control.I think from the time she entered the courtroom today she was falling apart because JB was ignoring her.She is starving for his sympathy so she can concentrate on that otherwise the fact that she murdered her daughter will become real for her and she is not going to handle it IMO

And notice CM was not sitting next to her either giving his usual little pats on the back!!

 

[katydid23]

What do you make of the glances between the attorneys at 10:10? Sympathy, or annoyance, or....?

It is like the quick look between two parents when one of the kids is acting out in public, and you acknowledge it between yourselves, but try and ignore it, hoping they will stop on their own. imoo

 

[elementary]

I don't know, to me the tightness in your chest, pounding heart, sweating and hard time breathing are far more severe and debilitating then the tingling. You feel like you are about to die! I know I couldn't simply get up and walk about totally normal with the only obvious symptom being clenching and unclenching of hands and mouthing "ouch" on my way out the door. Even ON klonopin it was never that simple. I know everyone is different but it just didn't look like an anxiety attack to me, it looked like the same thing it looked like after they removed her cuffs at the new intake.

I'll shut up about it though lol

Are you saying the perp displayed tightness in chest, pounding heart, sweating, hard time breathing? Because that is a panic attack. Hyperventilation is going into the extreme with tingling of hands and then total, very scary spasm in those hands. The respective symptoms are not related. In my experience. Both have to do with anxiety, but manifest very differently.

 

[LinasK]

Without having read this thread yet, my gut reactions to her behavior are either: 1) it's finally dawning on her that she's not getting out of this trial, or 2) she's pulling a Michael Jackson, with his spider bite, to try and delay this, anyway she can!!!:loser::boohoo::boohoo::boohoo:

 

[mitzi]

Good capture Momtective! Here's another 1!

She was very pale...but that might be just "prison palor. (sp) :crazy:

 

[Jetaime]

I've already stated this, but I believe her anxiety attack was quite *real*. That was the first [and only imo] time that she didnt give a spit that she looked horrible, (and she did).Also, she spent a whole 5-7 minutes without grooming/worrying about how she looked. Add to that a pasty hue with a nauseous face... well- that's exactly how I look when I'm having an anxiety attack.

Not to sound like a mod or anything, but this post lands at random. I came across this, and was blown away because it reminded me soooo much of ICA.....

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

 

[per_curiam]

LOL she's got quite a poker face but did I see a teeny tiny eye roll there when KC demanded attention? LOL JMHO

I haven't used the quote feature correctly since coming back to WS...so I'll add that I mean to add OneLostGirl's quote about "...that manly lady..." next to Casey in court.

This person has white and grey thick short hair, glasses, dark pointy eyebrows, a pinstripe blue man's shirt and a blazer. And you all are saying that's not a man? Well then, who is it? Looks just like a man to me. As I've said, I'm recently back into the Anthony case.

Whoever it is surely looks "mean"!

ETA: I believe the term for self soothing behaviors which are repetetive, sort of like a tic, is called "stimming", for stimulating themselves. Read up on it on Google if you'd like. It's seen in mental issues. Some autistic children have it, for one. They will repeat one gesture over and over, like beating a hand on a table constantly, etc.

 

[spqr]

I haven't used the quote feature correctly since coming back to WS...so I'll add that I mean to add OneLostGirl's quote about "...that manly lady..." next to Casey in court.

This person has white and grey thick short hair, glasses, dark pointy eyebrows, a pinstripe blue man's shirt and a blazer. And you all are saying that's not a man? Well then, who is it? Looks just like a man to me. As I've said, I'm recently back into the Anthony case.

Whoever it is surely looks "mean"!

Attorney Ann Fannell

 

[Cher352]

Just watched the video and haven't read through the whole thread but....

I think it was an act. She has been conning people for years. Remember GA's supposed heart attack? I think she was hoping to get taken to the hospital to be checked out and stop these preceedings. JB and CM lack of concern makes me believe that they felt the same thing.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Are you saying the perp displayed tightness in chest, pounding heart, sweating, hard time breathing? Because that is a panic attack. Hyperventilation is going into the extreme with tingling of hands and then total, very scary spasm in those hands. The respective symptoms are not related. In my experience. Both have to do with anxiety, but manifest very differently.

No I was speaking of my own experience with anxiety disorder and panic attacks. The very last thing I'd be bothered by was the numbness and tingling. The tightness in chest, pounding heart, sweating and hard time breathing- feeling as if I were about to die right were I sat were always the worst part. I just can't imagine how one could get up (using the very hands that people here insist were numb and spasming to push herself up and out of the chair) primp themselves then hold their hand saying "ouchie" in the middle of an anxiety attack.