2011.06.07 TRIAL Day Twelve (Morning Session)

[Blue Ridge]

Starting to get alittle bored now.

Not me, I LOVE hearing about animals....!!!!

The jury may be getting hungry, though, if not bored....it's almost lunchtime.

 

[Eidetic]

I bet the jury likes this witness. He does not come across as a condescending authority figure, he comes across as a relatable scientific guy who also loves and respects powerful dogs and explains things in terms they can understand.

 

[Liz]

KBelichWFTV

One juror got a kick out of the dog handler's description of what distractions (including hoese "poo" as he said) he trains the dog with
less than 30 seconds ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®

 

[sleutherontheside]

Very important to note that the final alert between Gerus and Bones was DIFFERENT!

Sorry for bumping my own post....but recall the issues Baez had with alerts and trained alerts and final alerts. I don't recall hearing during Frye that the two dogs had different final trained alerts...but i do remember some confusion over them.

LDB cleared that up so JB can't use it to confuse the jury.

Nicely done.

Her entire direct is a "PRE-THWARTATION".

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I think SA is doing this so JB has less of a chance to discredit the dogs. I've noticed she does that with each "expert" but they JB still seems to come up with ridiculous questioning.

Right. But my point is that I think everyone now understands how well trained these dogs are. This seems like overkill to me, and I'm starting to lose interest.

But that's just me. Maybe this jury is hanging on the witnesses every word. I don't know. Me? Bored.

 

[sophie01]

I always thought that Caylee died in Casey's car and that a certain area of the backyard - in or near the playhouse - was where the little girl was buried at least temporarily. jmo

I think Caylee died in the car and items from inside the car were tossed out into the yard while KC dealt with Caylee's body and tried to clean up the car, that being why the dogs alerted to the yard.

 

[ColdDayIn]

I'm a little bored by this too (altho the subject is fascinating, I think the witness is a little dull), but I think it's necessary that the jurors understand the extent of training before JB gets his mitts on the witness.

I think part of it is the witness's voice...It's very calming and sleep inducing, lol. He could probably get a side job doing voice over's for ambien commercials.

 

[Eileen730]

They wouldn't. :banghead:

Exactly!!!!

 

[mck16]

I think SA is doing this so JB has less of a chance to discredit the dogs. I've noticed she does that with each "expert" but they JB still seems to come up with ridiculous questioning.

JB tried that at the Frye hearings.

 

[Rapunzel]

Trained dogs with distractions of hamburger meat, pizza dead animals! SHAZAM - dog does not mistaken these things for decomp.

What about squirrels???:floorlaugh:

 

[Sleuth5]

The more I'm listening, the more I'm convinced that this dog is more highly educated than I am, even with my college degree.

Hey, I had a working dog on my dissertation committee.

 

[grammieto5]

ABCAshleigh

Its getting monotonous.. Jury looks restless.. And bored in#caseyanthony
half a minute ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®

This is just the opposite of what Kathy Belich tweeted! Ashleigh Banfield said the same thing on a show yesterday about the jurors NOT listening to Dr. Vass. Whereas all the other courtroom observers said jurors were riveted by what Dr. Vass was saying.

Is she on HLN ?

 

[Aedrys]

All this background is interesting, but is it really neccesary? The dogs were well trained...I think we've all got that at this point.

Baez harped on errors and training in a hearing. So I think the state has to lay all of this out in case he harps on that again. It's tedious, but necessary (and be glad you missing that hearing, OMG).

 

[JSR]

All this talk about dogs is making me miss my dog. I'm tearing up a bit. All I have now are my two cats. I swear animals are just little people trapped in a furry body. It must be so wonderful for these police officers to have the opportunity to be with their dogs all day.

 

[Eileen730]

I think Caylee died in the car and items from inside the car were tossed out into the yard while KC dealt with Caylee's body and tried to clean up the car, that being why the dogs alerted to the yard.

I think Caylee died in the car also

 

[ERRN1313]

OT, but I've been thinking of names for my two new soon-to-get German Shepherds. I'm thinking Uri and Gerus!!

 

[Chiquita71]

State called Jason Forgey.

JB: complains about something

HHJP: there is no argument. State proves by testimony or they don't.

(Casey looks uncomfortable because of this witness imo)

LDB: how employeed

specialized control K-9 unit

LDB: how long OCSO?

? sorry

LDB: ?

K 9 handler, have worked a dog since 2001

LDB: so for the last ten years you have handled k9 for law enforcement?

yes

LDB: training and qualifications that you have?

the k 9 unit prior to interviewing or actually going into the unit. cross training, I talked to them about working dogs and I transfered there in 2001.

LDB: ?

I received a dog in 2001 I went in as a part time handler because I was training then revceived my dog.

LDB: you trained not independ. of dog?

correct
scent discrimination, man training was the first training with the OCSO

LDB: how long

five weeks, two in class room and weeks in field

LDB: Garret?

yes

LDB: aside from the training period that was completed, follow up training?

yes, we have a minimum of training. must have two tracks enough. a supervisor is called out quarterly.

LDB: how long with k9 Garret?

nine months till had to put him down

LDB: another dog?

yes, Ike another blood hound

LDB: train?

yes, the same man tracking, scent discrimination. he learns the scent of what you scent him on. he must go to that one person correctly before he goes to next stage.

LDB: how long with k9 Ike?

somewhere in 2004 2005 I gave to another handler

LDB: did you have multiple dogs?

yes

LDB: in different things?

another dog besides Ike?

Witness: yes-Bones has one job and one job only. taught to detect human decom. specifically cadavers. speciality standards, profenency...I was chosen after 911 towers... EOD dog is an explosive dog and we needed more dogs at the time. I worked the two dogs.

LDB: Ike and Bones

correct

LDB: training a single purpose dog for human remains is different?

correct. an imprinting stage, sorry an introduction to make sure dog will be okay. then inprinting you take him to it over and over and train him for a final alert. Take them to it and tell them sit and reward him, after that stage you get into searching. for example if odor was in can you give command and he is to go to right can and gets toy and handler praise.

LDB: an alert is that how you know they have detected?

alert is when he is in odor and working odor

LDB: the final is different? the final alert?

if my water bottle is the source of the odor and if the dog is working from this side you would see his breathing pattern, start to brackett, he would work it to source. by training him and working so many odors you know he is in the odor but not found it but then give me final alert.

LDB: once the dog detects the odor you can see there is a behavioral change?

yes

LDB: when dog gets to source you expect him to give final trained alert?

a sit

LDB: sit?

yes

LDB: what sort of aids were used for Bones during imprint?

in imprint we used mostly rags with human decomp, in the chest cavady of a cadaver.

LDB: that is imprint stage, then move to other training aids?

yes

LDB: what sort of training aids?

"bones" human bones, placentas, chest cavidey rags...psudoscent is an odor, I brought some with me.

LDB: drowning victim only, put into water and see if dog can detect that?

pond, the lake, puts out the odor of drown victim. drop tablets in water let it sit and you run your dog on it

LDB: any training aids you used with bones?

blood also, psudo tissue, decomp on rags, grave dirt, dirt where a cadaver had been recovered from

LDB: you made reference to not having Bones

correct

LDB: decision made by OCSO that a full service dog not a specialized dog?

yes

LDB: what happened to Bones?

we tried to make him full service dog and he didn't make it, they decided they would like me to work a full service dog and they retired him. he went to a captain at that time and sgr Brewer got him from them.

LDB: ?

at the time locally sworn LE I covered multiple counties.

LDB: how long?

long time

LDB: Bones was the only cadaver dog in the area for a while?

correct

LDB: so once you had a full service k9 was needed get a new one?

Garus, german sheppard

LDB: same breeding program as it relates to Bones?

no bought Garus

LDB: he come from Germany?

yes, imported

LDB: was a puppy?

no 21 months his birthday was October 20 and he will be nine this October

LDB: ?

basic control k9 work. teach obedience. scent discrimination. tracking. 400 hour school.

LDB: once that is complete is Garus certified to do police work?

yes, evaluated by two outside evaluators. Obedience, voice, criminal apprehention...then certified

LDB: you work with him,

you are the only person that works with your dog, when he is tested you are tested.

LDB: after fulfilling the certification is there further training?

go back to school and he does 160 hours for his cadaver dog work

LDB: what do?

same things, introduce them to odor, imprint them, teach him responses. his final alert was different than bones, he lays down at source

LDB: what sort of items did you utilize to imprint Garus on human remains?

the same, rags soaked in chest cavady placenta...

LDB: Garus?

grave dirt, human bones, adopicer, blood placenta, burnt bones, psudo scent.

LDB: drown victim?

yes, but not in normal training.

LDB: proof them off of other odors from what they are trained to do?

you want to think of scenerios they find in life. make sure they are not affected by that. Garus in his whole career never received a bone so as not to teach him to chew on bones. we train him around ham, dumpsters, gas you use in your car. distractors with cheese burgers, decomposing animals, chained him around animal remains, near a horse...purposely train that way.

LDB: horses, does that include Garus wouldn't alter to dog urine or feces as well?

correct, we have multiple dogs we also have dogs that urinate on poles and they are not going to alert on that at all.

LDB: expose them to, Garus in particular, different invironments? Landfill, parking lots?

Yes, tried to expose him to everything. I went to the fire training pile and mock a recovery...drainage pipes...in cars, fields every scenerio I could think of at the time.

LDB: when you are training Garus you know where the scent is hidden?

correct

LDB: after initial training, does he go to specialty schools?

yes

LDB: is this a place where both you and the dog have no idea where the smell is set up?

correct, unknown finds

LDB: unknown to you.

yes, always unknown to the dog but in this case unknown to me.

LDB: heard of any bias by a handler?

yes, false altert

LDB: what was done with Garus to avoid that?

you will only find false alert with new handlers, our department goes to great lenghths to avoid that. stages where you introduce him imprint him and then search him. I let the lead slack, he stops and I walk...I keep on walking to make sure you do not que your dogs.

LDB: Garus have evaluation by outside source?

yes, initially

LDB: certified to do all kinds of work, including cadaver work?

yes

LDB: basic cadaver school hosted by an enitity separate from OCSO?

yes, Andy Redman and his company, a school, I applied for it and went

LDB: Redman is identified as a expert in training?

yes, a week long seminar

 

[legalmania]

Later: Lunch

 

[eaglemom]

after OCSO evaluation and certification to do all kinds of work Gerus was evaluated and certified by Andy Redmund in FL (a recognized leader in cadaver dogs) - training in FL was one week long

 

[darcedarce]

I think Caylee died in the car and items from inside the car were tossed out into the yard while KC dealt with Caylee's body and tried to clean up the car, that being why the dogs alerted to the yard.

I don't know though...wouldn't she have tossed the items into the garage? It would seem odd to go all the way through the house to the yard to put things out there...or was it the front yard by the garage?