2011.06.10 Sidebar (Trial Day Fifteen)

[tehcloser]

Get ur maters' ready...........I'm going to say I think GA and CA very much are responsible in part for what happened to Caylee. As parents, they failed. They didn't even try. I'm sick of so many parents going "Oh.....but I tried", look around you you prolly' know some of them now. This is the end result of NOT raising a responsible child. Thank Goodness they don't all turn out this way. We witnessed time and time again over the last three years how G and C raised and dealt with ICA, it was shameful. Oh maybe I'm just mad at everything Anthony..............ughhhhhhhhhhhhh. Ignore me. I shall go take it out cleaning!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SyraKelly]

OMG! IS has a lady that was in court. She is saying she is "lucky enough" to get in. She is laughing at video of herself running to get in line! uke:

yeah.How is sick is that..we were lucky enough to see a baby's skull..and I ran to get in there...oh she sounds sooo proud of herself...shame on her!!

 

[darnudes]

Well, ICA had been living elsewhere for awhile...TL's or staying with RM or someone.

But anyway, I wasn't really suggesting they could have kidnapped her, just trying to make the point that Caylee was under the sole control of her mother, legally.

bbm

Because she had killed Caylee by then and could not go back home, that was the only reason she was living with Tony.

ICA never lived a day of her life outside the family home until she killed Caylee and even then she came back periodically to the house to raid it for food, money, credit cards, and whatever clothes she needed at the time.

 

[sleutherontheside]

If I have to witness any more "non news" I am going to chloroform myself!!!

 

[Themis]

:wave: No. I am saying let Casey go where she wants. She wanted to be out all of the time. By Cindy fighting with Casey she forced Casey to make a choice and I do not believe Cindy really thought Casey would buck up.

Not after seeing ICA in her best performances.

I am not talking about custody. I am talking about PROTECTING Caylee. I don't have kids...so guess I can't understand...but if I had a daughter who was a party girl who did not take care of her child, I would let her go off where ever she wanted as long as the baby was SAFE with ME!

IIRC, CA had her 50th birthday in early June 2008. That's a big milestone birthday for a woman. She probably wanted to retreat from primary child rearing and take on more of a traditional grandmother role. Just that fact tells me she was probably very conflicted about taking on the role of being a primary parent of a 2 year old!

However, just the fact that she discussed seeking an involuntary custody order for Caylee tells us volumes about what CA did see about ICA's parenting. CA discussed this with her therapist and perhaps others -- most probably with GA. However, seeking involuntary custody results in huge tension and rifts in a family.

About the same time, the law pertaining to Grandparents seeking just visitation of grandchildren was undergoing great changes across the nation. The courts were siding with the natural parents' rights to raise their child. (Basically, the last thing the seriously understaffed, underfinanced and overwhelmed family law courts need is to add a whole new genre of litigation to their impacted caseloads -- intergenerational litigation. This may change over time though as society wrestles with the effects of aggregious parenting, but it will take a generation or two of a combination of legislation and precedent court decisions based on that litigation to temper the current state of the law, which is a nearly complete shut-out of grandparents.)

If CA sought legal advice, it would not have been encouraging; thus it was easy to put it off. However, there was that big fight on June 15th. If GA's memory is not of the morning of June 16th but another routine morning, then maybe Caylee wasn't there. CA didn't see her that morning. ICA was on the computer that morning uploading photos, but she might have been alone without Caylee. The testimony is otherwise. The undercurrent of CA seeking custody and thinking ICA was an incompetent parent is a very important undercurrent to this case.

It was CA's mother that summed up this case more succinctly; something about ICA hating CA more than she loved Caylee. Revenge against CA could have been at least part of the motive.

 

[gelfie68]

I know...I had family members angry at me for putting my child inpatient at such a young age. To me it comes down to....a Mother is the person in a child's life that will do anything and everything to give the child what they need....whatever it looks like to others...the child's interests are the most important.

I've had to do that myself. My oldest is bipolar. In all of that my ONLY goal was to get them help, to help the other siblings through this, and to make sure that in the big picture to understand cause and effect.

I have even had to turn my back on my child because I KNEW I could not help him. It was to help my other kids who had to take a back seat to their brother because he was in crisis.

I had to quit my job and my full time position was to make sure he got help. I had to go a whole summer without natural gas. I filed bankruptcy-it didn't matter-I had to help my child. OK sorry angry rambling again. I'll stop here. grrrrrr

Oh BTW My son is doing very well now, and my other children have all graduated HS and are all attending college.

 

[Aedrys]

What I can't wrap my mind around is why would you duct tape the child's nose and mouth if this were an accident??? How will the DT explain that???

I understand that KC's first and second story was a kidnapping, but don't kidnappers usually send notes and want money??? Why would they kill the child by asphyxiation???

Exactly. And why would a kidnapper waste time wrapping a child's head in duct tape three times? One, that much duct tape would surely kill the child, and well, there goes getting a ransom. And two, it's too much. A kidnapper might put one piece of duct tape on to shut the child up. That's it. Not wrap the child's head in duct tape. Only a murderer, intent on killing a child, would do that. The three pieces of duct tape is PERSONAL too. It shows anger and wanting to silence a child forever.

 

[Wholehearted]

I am saying they should have let Casey do what she wanted, let her be gone for long stretches of time, let her drop off the face of the earth.

Why didn't they just keep Caylee? If you loved her, you would just say, okay Casey whatever you say....let her LEAVE and GO where EVER she PLEASED but Caylee would be SAFE and in her arms.

I DO NOT understand. :no:

I believe that if Cindy knew that Casey was as bad as she is, then she would have done exactly that, if not pursued legal means of keeping Caylee. But I really believe she didn't know what Casey was capable of. So she wanted to push her to be a better mother. Cindy probably thought she was helping Casey, and helping Caylee to have a better mother. I don't think she thought Casey was bad, per se. Just not good enough.

 

[Dragonlady]

Again, ICA was an adult and had legal custody of Caylee. If she had packed Caylee up and left the Anthony's home there wouldn't have been squat they could have done about that. Try to get the child removed from ICA's custody, sure...but that is no simple matter, believe me. And it takes time.

If you are suggesting the Anthony's should have kidnapped Caylee...well...

Not that I agree with the Anthony's actions but here however it's very hard to remove custody and they just couldn't kick her out, to help explain I will share a personal story here: my sister in law has serious mental illness and has drug abuse issues, she has never really held a steady job, her mother as enabled her for her entire life by paying her bills, giving her food and shelter, she even paid her bail before, mil walks on eggshells,when the situation got to hard for mil to handle her behavior she asked her to move out since she was sick of the mooching, my sil refused to leave since she knew it benefited her to stay and come and go as she pleased. My mil was advised that she could not legally evict her even though she paid no bills, did not have a job or own the home, the only way would be to legally serve an eviction and allow it to go through the courts after paying fees, this would take at least a minimum of 3 months, it was too much for her.
So this is an example of just how hard it can be to do things the right way.
I think that Cindy feared pissing off ICA and risking never seeing Caylee again or having her suffer with no food, medical treatment or roof over her head.
Sadly even though she walked on eggshells with ICA, her worst nightmares were realized.
I'm sure Cindy could have started some proceedings, but she never imagined this.

 

[egnarts]

My belief is that Cindy wanted it both ways in that she wanted to be with Caylee all the time but she also was determined to make Casey feel bad about being a bad mother. Cindy's feelings probably got the best of her at times and she went off on Casey, making Casey mad enough to punish Cindy at times by taking Caylee elsewhere.

One thing I don't understand is how Cindy could keep herself from insisting on meeting any nanny who was caring for Caylee, or even following Casey to find out if necessary, knowing that Casey was a liar and irresponsible.

Jumping off your post in the whole line of CA/KC relationship and how it relates to CA's level of protection of Caylee (or not).
This leads me to believe the supposed argument on 6/15(?) between KC & CA was just that - CA was done with KC's antics and told KC she was going to begin the process of attaining custody of Caylee. And, kick KC out of the house, etc ? Maybe she DID ask for proof of the nanny. This pushed KC over the edge. We may never know.
IMO

 

[Broderick]

I see it a little differently. She's dressing more conservatively without the body cling and wrapping in sweaters to comfort herself. She seems to get cold easily these past few days and is feeling very vulnerable because the truth is coming to the surface. Piece by piece. She's keeping her head down and retreating into herself. She can escape viewing the pictures of her dead daughter but she cannot escape the descriptions and conversations that surround those pictures. I believe the tears are real because this is the reality of what she's done. She's guilty and she knows it.

She will recover within moments of the conversations ceasing. Now we see that is how she went on about her life with clubbing, and running around town as though nothing ever happened.

I like what you say, because in my heart I want to her to relive her monstrous moments and know she has done wrong. Doesn't make her any less guilty nor any less a detriment to society, but it gives me solace that Caylee perhaps is heaping at her conscience from beyond the grave so to speak. I want her to relive those moments and shudder and cry and see what she is, even if in brief moments for the rest of her life. I don't want the DP to take away her suffering. I want her to rot. In jail. In a cell. I want Caylee to haunt her for her remaining days, whenever possible.

 

[tasylshari]

Okay, folks, let's be honest here.....

did anyone else unconciously do the moonwalk when Dr. G walked into the courtroom? Please tell me I'm not the only one.

Also, looking at the inmate during Dr. G's entrance I witnessed both anger and better sit up and pretty myself 'cause NOW I'm an icon for SURE!

 

[Softail]

What I can't wrap my mind around is why would you duct tape the child's nose and mouth if this were an accident??? How will the DT explain that???

I understand that KC's first and second story was a kidnapping, but don't kidnappers usually send notes and want money??? Why would they kill the child by asphyxiation???

I know! I know!

Because it wasn't an accident! :nono:

 

[2door73chevy]

yeah.How is sick is that..we were lucky enough to see a baby's skull..and I ran to get in there...oh she sounds sooo proud of herself...shame on her!!

She also said 95% of the people think ICA is guilty.

 

[JustMeDeb]

ICA's tissues should be examined for trace evidence of onions. Even those can't make the tears come

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Divine intervention kept that skull, duct tape and and jaw all together through floods, animals and insects, storms, wind and gravity. It was meant to be found.

 

[shezcrafti]

What I can't wrap my mind around is why would you duct tape the child's nose and mouth if this were an accident??? How will the DT explain that???

I understand that KC's first and second story was a kidnapping, but don't kidnappers usually send notes and want money??? Why would they kill the child by asphyxiation???

Not Zanny. She's the coolest! A beautiful "perfect 10" who was like a sister to Casey that provided everything in the world Caylee could ever need -- toys, food, clothing, you name it -- and took her to all these fabulous places like Disney World, Sea World, the beach...for free! What a kindhearted and generous person.

 

[LancelotLink]

I have an off the wall theory of why KC tends to wrap herself in sweaters or coverings during certain testimony...and its usually when the topic is about "Sweet Caylee"....I think KC gets chilled to the bone because Caylee's spirit is trying to hug her momma...and KC senses that Coldness right to the bone!!!

Okay..go ahead and laugh...Its just a theory:rocker:

I'm not laughing. I hope you are correct.

I thought at first she might be cold, but the testimony at that moment was Caylee and her Winnie the Pooh blanket. I decided then that Casey wanted a blanket, too. Look at me! Don't think about Caylee. I'm the victim here. Look, I need to wrapped in my bankee and cuddle with my attorney, just like I did before with ALyon. So reminiscent.

 

[Baznme]

We've all seen how much Caylee was doted on by CA & GA. I have to wonder if Casey herself was also doted on in the same fashion when she was Caylee's age. I have to believe that she was. Cindy seems like the type of person who is just so proud of her family, even when things didn't turn out the way she expected them to (KC getting pregnant).

So where the heck did Casey go wrong? Are people just born evil?

I hate to say this but.......I believe that Casey may have been a product of the classic "post partum depression" syndrome. If she never really bonded with Caylee and did not want to keep her baby but was pressured into it, it's possible she just couldn't carry the responsibility of that role and never could. She "pretended" to but that didn't work either. I realize it's not a popular synopsis, but it is a very real possibility that the jury could have seen it this way IF her DT had presented it this way instead of the very unrealistic scenario they went with.

 

[costalpilot]

i dont think the lawyer should be able to hug the inmate during court

thats sick

i must be heartless