2011.06.10 Sidebar (Trial Day Fifteen)

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I have a question..The TH are saying it appears Caylee was killed, but no proof she was killed by ICA. Was ICA not the only person involved in this case, off drinking, screwing and having an all around good time, without ever trying to find out where her daughter was? CA, GA and LA were trying to find her and Caylee....ICA was the one lying about where she was, where Caylee was, and when they would see her again. ICA was the one in coverup mode. ICA knew what she had done. That is all of the proof I need that she did it.

IMO, it feels like most of these people have to leave every ounce of common sense and at least 30 points of their IQ at home to report on this case.

As soon as the story came out, child missing and mother didn't report it for 31 days, even though I kept an open mind, I thought ICA did it. I have yet to hear anything to make me think otherwise. Shortly afterwards, it turned out mother didn't even report her child missing, it was Caylee's grandmother that did it. Then the 911 calls are released, and IMO CA was practically forcing ICA to talk to LE.

As far as I'm concerned, this case started out at a very, very low point and it has gone downhill ever since. I'm not going to feel guilty, or feel like a bad person, or second-guess what I know to be the facts of this case because some people feel the need to play devil's advocate and/or try and produce every theory they can come up with to try to explain one piece of evidence or another. IMO, Dr. G said it all when she said there is no reason other than homicide for duct tape to be on a child's face. Period.

MOO
 
I agree with you about the judge. I thought his comments very odd today. Its odd too because none of the pundits are discussing it much nor find it odd. I can't tell ilf the judge is PO'd at the defense or state.

Here is how I interpret it. He is getting tired of Baez asking for a mistrial every other day. JP was speaking to JA, but it was actually directed at Baez, imo.

The judge was sending the message to Baez that no matter how many times he asks for a mistrial, Baez is still going to have to play out this whole thing, including presenting his own case. The judge is assuring Baez that he will NOT get out of having to present what little case he has ready to present. So it may force Baez to cut back on those silly requests.
 
My impression was that JP was looking at JA. Felt like he was spankin' him for not making a better argument? Everyone attributed it to JB always asking for a mistrial, but that was not my gut feeling. JP has the case law to back this up, so that is not the problem. I just wonder what message he was sending out and to whom.

I didn't see it that way at all. After all just 15 minutes before Judge Perry ALLOWED the video to be shown. He ruled it in, why would he turn around 15 minutes later and declare a mistrial based on something he just allowed to happen? IMO he was sending a message to the defense to stop with the mistrial crap every 5 minutes or he may give them what they want....a mistrial after he reads a nonguilty verdict, therefore, having to start all over again and possibly getting a guilty verdict next time around.
 
No, I think that is incorrect. What he said was he could hold them up UNTIL he read the verdict. He cannot declare a mistrial AFTER he reads the verdict. I am pretty darn sure of that.

OK I just checked on Google. You are correct. He has the right to over-rule guilty verdicts only. Not non-guilty. I'm having trouble pulling up a site. Let me try again.

Here it is.

What If Jury Goes Against Evidence?

Dear Judge Eaton: If jurors are presented with indisputable evidence of guilt and still choose to vote not guilty for whatever reason, but the evidence proves the guilt, can the judge override the verdict? What are the penalties for aggravated manslaughter of a child and providing false information to a law enforcement officer? -- Manuela, Amsterdam, The Netherlands


snipped:
Juries are instructed to follow the law. However, there are instances in English and American history where juries have ignored the law and found a defendant not guilty. O.J. Simpson’s case may have been one example. This is called jury nullification. There is no provision for a judge to override a not guilty verdict. In the United States, such action is prohibited by the double jeopardy clause of the Constitution. -- Judge O.H. Eaton

Read more: http://www.wesh.com/casey-anthony-extended-coverage/27869344/detail.html#ixzz1OvJktxNk
 
100% of all drowning victims are reported. 100%!
Dead children found stuffed in bags = murder.
Duct tape found on or around dead children stuffed in bags = murder.

No explainable possibility of accident. Triple-bagged dead child tossed into the woods where garbage is thrown with duct tape found on/around their head = homicide.

moo
 
That really bothered me also. I searched around the internet and found it had other people perplexed also. Here are some comments that I found.

"was a message to both the defense and the State to make a deal. However slight the possibility is, the State now has "a concern" that the Judge could grant a mistrial based on the video."

"the Judge after seeing the overwhelming evidence today wanted Baez to have a "come to Jesus" session with Casey and tell her to face the reality that she very likely will be put to death, unless she were to accept a plea to life. "

http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=34799002&postID=2021015329499610753

Oh,wow!
I don't see how JP can grant a mistrial over the video coming in,though. He allowed it and backed it up with the law.
I'm going with the last idea.
 
OK I just checked on Google. You are correct. He has the right to over-rule guilty verdicts only. Not non-guilty. I'm having trouble pulling up a site. Let me try again.

Here it is.

What If Jury Goes Against Evidence?

Dear Judge Eaton: If jurors are presented with indisputable evidence of guilt and still choose to vote not guilty for whatever reason, but the evidence proves the guilt, can the judge override the verdict? What are the penalties for aggravated manslaughter of a child and providing false information to a law enforcement officer? -- Manuela, Amsterdam, The Netherlands


snipped:
Juries are instructed to follow the law. However, there are instances in English and American history where juries have ignored the law and found a defendant not guilty. O.J. Simpson’s case may have been one example. This is called jury nullification. There is no provision for a judge to override a not guilty verdict. In the United States, such action is prohibited by the double jeopardy clause of the Constitution. -- Judge O.H. Eaton

Read more: http://www.wesh.com/casey-anthony-extended-coverage/27869344/detail.html#ixzz1OvJktxNk

He may not have the right to overule a not guilty verdict but he may well be entitled to deem the trial a mistrial even after the verdict (guilty or not guilty) is announced?

moo
 
OT and sorry for that....just logged on tonight and I felt like sharing...

I chose the username "andalso" because IMO if I were a juror I'd be thinking....

and also the smell, and also the duct tape, and also the 31 days, and also her demeanor, and also the forensic evidence, and also this incredibly bizarre DT story, I could go on nearly infinitely....AND ALSO!

If confusion = Reasonable doubt then DT is achieving their goal! But I am feeling confident right now that the jurors are clearly seeing through the DT facade and ICA's "faux"motions.

And also, I find it mystifying a bit that this is how the system "works", JB is simply not qualified for the job...but IMO, there is no defense for a crime like this anyway...
 
You know what else I just realized. JB is going to have to continue with this assinine defense he stated (I think the judge knows its bogus and hurtful to GA). So JB will have to go all the way with this defense and if there is a retrial he won't be able to change this ridiculous defense story he has already put forth. He might be able to change it a little but the basic ridiculous premise he will have to keep. I think JB knows he blew it big once he saw the pictures and testimony today of the anthropologists. No one is going to believe Kronk moved the body there.


Here is how I interpret it. He is getting tired of Baez asking for a mistrial every other day. JP was speaking to JA, but it was actually directed at Baez, imo.

The judge was sending the message to Baez that no matter how many times he asks for a mistrial, Baez is still going to have to play out this whole thing, including presenting his own case. The judge is assuring Baez that he will NOT get out of having to present what little case he has ready to present. So it may force Baez to cut back on those silly requests.
 
OK I just checked on Google. You are correct. He has the right to over-rule guilty verdicts only. Not non-guilty. I'm having trouble pulling up a site. Let me try again.

Here it is.

What If Jury Goes Against Evidence?

Dear Judge Eaton: If jurors are presented with indisputable evidence of guilt and still choose to vote not guilty for whatever reason, but the evidence proves the guilt, can the judge override the verdict? What are the penalties for aggravated manslaughter of a child and providing false information to a law enforcement officer? -- Manuela, Amsterdam, The Netherlands


snipped:
Juries are instructed to follow the law. However, there are instances in English and American history where juries have ignored the law and found a defendant not guilty. O.J. Simpson’s case may have been one example. This is called jury nullification. There is no provision for a judge to override a not guilty verdict. In the United States, such action is prohibited by the double jeopardy clause of the Constitution. -- Judge O.H. Eaton

Read more: http://www.wesh.com/casey-anthony-extended-coverage/27869344/detail.html#ixzz1OvJktxNk

But if Baez keeps making motions for a mistrial, JP can reserve ruling on one until after the jury has reached a verdict. He can wait until the verdict is handed to him and read it, but before he says "Please publish the verdict"... So even if there's a not guilty verdict, he can stop everything and declare a mistrial because the verdict hasn't been published. That isn't going against the jury's verdict at all.
 
Well I would think that if a Jury finds not guilty the Judge presiding is now excused. It then goes to a higher court in appeals and a different Judge presides to further rule.
 
OT and sorry for that....just logged on tonight and I felt like sharing...

I chose the username "andalso" because IMO if I were a juror I'd be thinking....

and also the smell, and also the duct tape, and also the 31 days, and also her demeanor, and also the forensic evidence, and also this incredibly bizarre DT story, I could go on nearly infinitely....AND ALSO!

If confusion = Reasonable doubt then DT is achieving their goal! But I am feeling confident right now that the jurors are clearly seeing through the DT facade and ICA's "faux"motions.

And also, I find it mystifying a bit that this is how the system "works", JB is simply not qualified for the job...but IMO, there is no defense for a crime like this anyway...

welcome andalso

I agree with your post
 
and they have not even heard the defense side yet.what lame defense will it be?

Good question...I see nothing that the defense would have to offer that would support their OS except that ICA would have to take the stand.
 
I think we need to call in the lawyers. Let's see what the Ask our verified attorneys say his reasoning may be. I'll post it. :)
 
OT and sorry for that....just logged on tonight and I felt like sharing...

I chose the username "andalso" because IMO if I were a juror I'd be thinking....

and also the smell, and also the duct tape, and also the 31 days, and also her demeanor, and also the forensic evidence, and also this incredibly bizarre DT story, I could go on nearly infinitely....AND ALSO!

If confusion = Reasonable doubt then DT is achieving their goal! But I am feeling confident right now that the jurors are clearly seeing through the DT facade and ICA's "faux"motions.

And also, I find it mystifying a bit that this is how the system "works", JB is simply not qualified for the job...but IMO, there is no defense for a crime like this anyway...
Glad you shared and ITA!!
andalso-
homespun.jpg
 
I think we need to call in the lawyers. Let's see what the Ask our verified attorneys say his reasoning may be. I'll post it. :)

Lets unleash the Lawyers!!!!

Sorry couldn't help myself! lol
 
I have a question...in court they have the witness identify the package containing evidence but we never see them open it. On TV they always dramatically open the package...I remember the TV move of Diane Downs and the prosecutor lifting the kids clothes out. Will we get to see the blanket, and the shorts?
 
Hi MsBrisbee,

Maybe somebody can clear this up because I'm not sure, but doesn't the defendant have to be deemed by a psych professional as mentally incompetant for that defense to even be used? I'm curious.

As far as I know yes. The defense however, has not mentioned any psychological disorders or brought them up other than she has a propensity to lie. I guess that was one of my points. She is obviously functioning in a different reality than the rest of us, that's been an ongoing public consensious since day one, defense was stupid to open with what they did. Will probably go down in law book history. They could have had a realistic defense which has been shown by public opinion, how not right she is for almost 3 years. Just saying, it's been shown here, and elsewhere for a long time that this wasn't right, the thinking was way off base of a normal person. It's coming out in trial now, backed up by opinions here, that she is NOT RIGHT. With everything seen and documented, they had a much stronger case with insanity or trying to function under the restraints of a mental disorder, did they did with GA being a molester. They kind of sunk their case in my eyes when they said that, no disrespect to anyone anywhere, but, she thinks she might have dreamed this, etc., etc., she has a lousy lawyer, a lousy defense, a lousy demeaner and attitude, a circumstantial case and a history of having what could be documented as psychological disorders. As well as observable disorders, the jury doesn't have the back ground WSer's have, I can bet they have already determined they are looking at a very disturbed individual, she has not been, nor is she currently behaving as a normal person would, there may be circumstantial evidence, but there is not a compelling motive as to that time as opposed to all others and so on, I'm willing to bet the jury is thinking, well she probably was there, might have been accidental, duct tape might have been to stop more fluids from purging, ( as someone else here already mentioned), could have bagged her up then, a few days later and dumped her, car really started to stink, got rid of car, so forth so on, but she was always a lier, always not normal, all of Caylees life telling stories, according to J Grunde, she became a totally different person. So why isnt this compelling evidence that she may indeed be functioning outside the norm, I didn't follow this case after the bounty hunter crap, until this actual trial started. I have more infor than the jurors, and still see how they could call this based on what I've seen so far. Sure clhoroform has been brought in with computer history, but it confused me, and didn't take away reasonable doubt. Just rambling at this point, but could be this girl is truly disturbed, does not and did not have a fix on reality after her child was born.
 
Originally Posted by grandmaj View Post
OK here is a hypothetical

The judge holds all motions for mistrial. He has a right to hold them until after he reads the verdict. That is what he said. So just what if, the verdict is not-guilty. But the judge decides that he is going to over-rule the verdict and grant a mistrial instead. It could happen.
No, I think that is incorrect. What he said was he could hold them up UNTIL he read the verdict. He cannot declare a mistrial AFTER he reads the verdict. I am pretty darn sure of that.
Maybe I just have a simplistic way of hearing things but I thought he was basically telling JB that he can ask for a mistrial all he wants but he's not gonna grant one because he's not gonna allow anything to happen to cause one and if JB keeps on asking for one he's just gonna continue to deny him until both sides finish and address it then.
 
You know what else I just realized. JB is going to have to continue with this assinine defense he stated (I think the judge knows its bogus and hurtful to GA). So JB will have to go all the way with this defense and if there is a retrial he won't be able to change this ridiculous defense story he has already put forth. He might be able to change it a little but the basic ridiculous premise he will have to keep. I think JB knows he blew it big once he saw the pictures and testimony today of the anthropologists. No one is going to believe Kronk moved the body there.

ok ok, I had to leave early and just finished up reading the trial thread...

Can anyone one else HARDLY WAIT for the DT to present its CIC?

The suspense is terrible. I hope it will last. (!!!!!!!!!)
 
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