2011.06.20 Sidebar Thread (Trial Day Twenty-three)

[Talina]

Thank you for asking this...I keep thinking I'll finally get to a post that tells me what I missed from this morning regarding the State's behavior / contributions to HHJBP's verbal reprimand.

I watched the videos from today on wftv and still can't figure it out.

IMO The state was not reprimanded in any way whatsoever. Some people (talking heads mostly) are stretching it pretty thin to insinuate that it was anything to do with the state. While HHJP did not necessarily single Baez out in his speech he gave after Baez spoke, and even mentioned both sides a few times, I don't think there was anyone in that court room or watching that had any question who he was talking to.

After Ashton gave his information and argument to the judge at the beginning of the morning, Baez took to the podium and in his dissertation he whined a lot that he felt Ashton had also been playing games at other times but only Baez was threatened with sanctions and he felt Ashton should have also. A lot of whining that he was being unfairly singled out. He tried to turn the whole fiasco of his trying to blindside and ignore the judge's discovery court order back on Ashton. I do believe he failed miserably given HHJP response once Baez was done.

Also, as with his behavior on Saturday while HHJP was giving his dressing down, Baez was once again very disrespectful to the court in his body language and expressions. IMO of course.

At least the above is my take on the happenings in court this morning. Others here may have additional observations to add or corrections to make.

:seeya:

 

[Aedrys]

Well for one, they have already seen how the State presented it's case. If they got a mistrial right now they could retry the case and perhaps get some of the most damning evidence booted. And then they can prepare their case already knowing how and what the SA will throw at them.

Remember if ICA gets a mistrial the ENTIRE case starts over. That means all new Frye hearings, all new MIL (motion in limine) the whole shebang. They would get the 2nd bite at the apple (and in some cases a 6 or 7 bite at the apple) Although an acquittal would be best for ICA the next best option is a mistrial.

I don't think a mistrial is going to happen though. HHJP is working too hard to make sure that doesn't happen.

OMG. I sincerely hope you're right because I cannot TAKE going through all of that AGAIN. I just CAN'T. And I think WS would implode if that happens too. That is my NIGHTMARE right there. OMG.

Keep on keepin' on HHJP. I am praying everyday for him now!

 

[allycat1208]

HLN is replaying Dr. Spitz' cross examination... it's even harder to take the second time! My heavens.

I thought the argument between Dr. Spitz and JA was one of the highlights of the case. Maybe Dr. Spitz was not the most credible witness but he was certainly entertaining.

 

[OneLostGrl]

BBM. That's strange, because I've often noticed the opposite. JA isn't sarcastic, IMO, not considering the true definition of "sarcasm". But many people are confused on the true meaning of that word.

I agree, he's more condescending imo.

 

[BritsKate]

Thank you for asking this...I keep thinking I'll finally get to a post that tells me what I missed from this morning regarding the State's behavior / contributions to HHJBP's verbal reprimand.

I watched the videos from today on wftv and still can't figure it out.

It might be a matter of opinion to some degree. Essentially JA was unable to depose one of the defense expert witnesses over the weekend because there was nothing to depose him on (the submitted report contained essentially no opinion).

Lo and behold another report (this one more detailed and with 45 slides) was later presented to JA. Now JA has enough information to depose Eiklenbloom and will do so.

JB stated JA should have deposed RE anyway. HHJP stated depositions were not meant as an alternative to reports being submitted when they were expected replete with the expert's opinions. HTH

**Some are going to say JA should have deposed the Dr no matter what while others will state that Baez is conducting trial by ambush having experts testify to opinions not contained within their reports. I vote the latter personally.***

 

[Aedrys]

I know there is probably no average time, but how long *should* or would it take for a jury to come to a descision on this case. In other words, what is the average length of time for a jury to deliberate on murder trials?

I don't know the average time, but I've heard of juries coming back in one hour. I am not joking. And this case, I expect them to come back in like ten minutes because of Baez and Casey. I will be completely shocked if they go over an hour, no, half an hour to deliberate.

 

[Leila]

Actually other than the victim in this case, Caylee, the one I feel most sorry for is HHJP. HHJP is backed into a corner and JB knows it. And I know how absolutely angry HHJP must be about it. JB knew he could willfully disobey HHJP's order and there was nothing HHJP could really do about it or risk handing ICA a easily appeal-able verdict. And you add in CM egging JB on telling him there is nothing HHJP can do and you can see how we got to where we are at now. JB was DETERMINED to run this case trial by ambush. And that's what he's doing, and is getting away with it.

Although we'll see how this plays out for JB after the trial is over. We'll just see how well it worked out for him to royally piss off one of the most well respected and highest ranking judges in Orange County.

I predict that we will have many more delays before the defense finally rests. This will be a reoccurring theme. JB will elicit some testimony of an expert not contained in their depo or report ON PURPOSE and then HHJP will have to stop the proceedings to give the SA time to depose the expert again about some brand NEW findings.

This has been happening right before our eyes..........we can readily see what the DDT is up to. If it continues, it will completely blow the schedule that HHBP has outlined, with the defense taking weeks to present their case instead of finishing up later this week or on Monday of next week.

HHBP has got to be fuming over this underhanded breach of ethics! But there's nothing he can do about it without risking an appeal of the eventual verdict.

The way I see it, if HHBP stays the course and allows the defense to continue to do this, the jury is going to catch on to the defense tactics and they're going to be royally angry that this trial is being purposely delayed.

In the end, despite the DT's attempt to force a situation that would give them an appeal, the trial will have run it's course, although taking a lot longer than expected. No one will be able to say that KC didn't have a fair trial.

But the fallout from this trial will be major. I think JB will be disbarred, and the other attorneys will have their reputations tarnished for their association with this unethical defense.

 

[Aedrys]

It might be a matter of opinion to some degree. Essentially JA was unable to depose one of the defense expert witnesses over the weekend because there was nothing to depose him on (the submitted report contained essentially no opinion).

Lo and behold another report (this one more detailed and with 45 slides) was later presented to JA. Now JA has enough information to depose Eiklenbloom and will do so.

JB stated JA should have deposed RE anyway. HHJP stated depositions were not meant as an alternative to reports being submitted when they were expected replete with the expert's opinions. HTH

**Some are going to say JA should have deposed the Dr no matter what while others will state that Baez is conducting trial by ambush having experts testify to opinions not contained within their reports. I vote the latter personally.***

BBM. ITA. That is what kills me. How in Hades is he supposed to depose an expert without knowing what the expert's opinion is? How is he supposed to know what questions to ask? *headdesk* He can't possibly just depose the expert on possible opinions or guess at what the expert's opinion is. Baez has on obligation to get that dang report to the SA in a timely manner, not in the middle of the trial, so JA can do his job properly. Stuff like this drives me CRAZY. There are rules and procedures for testimony and depositions for a REASON.

 

[katydid23]

06/20/2011 Motion to Quash Subpoena

http://mobile.mcall.com/p.p?m=b&a=r...DL.w=&DL.d=10&DQ=sectionId%3A6090&DPS=0&DPL=3


Casey Anthony trial: Perry adjourns court until 9 a.m. Tuesday – no explanation given

By Anthony Colarossi and Walter Pacheco , Orlando Sentinel
Mon Jun 20 2011 1:01 PM

Vasco Thompson is a 'non-party' in Casey case
Also filed today was a motion to quash the subpoena for Vasco Thompson, the man the defense listed as a late witness last week.

The motion, filed by attorney Matt T. Morgan, says Thompson is set to appear before Perry at 8:30 a.m. Tuesday.

It goes on to say Thompson "has no personal knowledge of facts relating to the alleged killing of Caylee Marie Anthony."

The motion calls Thompson's subpoena for trial "a misguided attempt to draw attention and publicity to an already highly publicized matter."

Thompson "believes that the defendant's subpoena for trial is only a delay, to create confusion in the evidence and a ploy to create an illusion of reasonable doubt," Morgan's motion says.

It adds that the subpoena "was filed in bad faith against the non-party Vasco Thompson" and creates an undue burden on him.

The motion asks Perry to quash the subpoena and enter "a protective order prohibiting the defendant, Casey Anthony, from further contact with" Thompson.

I think Judge P is going to be SO ANGRY about this. He will see this for exactly what it is- an attempt to pull race into this in an ugly ,ugly manner.

Judge P is going to be disgusted at the thought that this man, who is trying to stay on the straight and narrow, is being pulled into this mess, and is having his picture and his name plastered all over the media--implying he is somehow involved with the kidnapping of this little girl. DISGUSTING.

And Baez is going to be sorry that he tried this little ruse, imo. The judge is going to be disgusted and repulsed. And he will keep it in mind as he continues on this journey.

 

[ijam]

Wasn't Baez supposed to meet with the grief lady Saturday, the 18th? Did this happen?

 

[aeneas1]

what exactly happened this morning, after perry recessed until 10:25 to allow the dt's next witness to arrive? did the court reconvene at 10:25 only to be told that it would recess until tomorrow? if so, was the jury present?

 

[TotallyObsessed]

IMO The state was not reprimanded in any way whatsoever. Some people (talking heads mostly) are stretching it pretty thin to insinuate that it was anything to do with the state. While HHJP did not necessarily single Baez out in his speech he gave after Baez spoke, and even mentioned both sides a few times, I don't think there was anyone in that court room or watching that had any question who he was talking to.

After Ashton gave his information and argument to the judge at the beginning of the morning, Baez took to the podium and in his dissertation he whined a lot that he felt Ashton had also been playing games at other times but only Baez was threatened with sanctions and he felt Ashton should have also. A lot of whining that he was being unfairly singled out. He tried to turn the whole fiasco of his trying to blindside and ignore the judge's discovery court order back on Ashton. I do believe he failed miserably given HHJP response once Baez was done.

Also, as with his behavior on Saturday while HHJP was giving his dressing down, Baez was once again very disrespectful to the court in his body language and expressions. IMO of course.

At least the above is my take on the happenings in court this morning. Others here may have additional observations to add or corrections to make.

:seeya:

I think you are right on the money. It has become glaringly obvious that JB is just about as narcissitic as his client. Evidenced by his motion filed (wbw way back when) about excluding the jib-jab video. That was about JB's ego and JB alone. When he filed to have KB excluded from the courtroom, that was about JB's ego and JB alone. KB has called him out and embarrassed him too many times, and his ego cannot take that. It is so obvious to me what a true :loser: he is.

 

[BritsKate]

You know I gotta say I don't think Ashton is condescending and perhaps not even sarcastic. I think at times he has difficulty containing his amazement at what has transpired (as in disbelief). I think he's emotional and passionate - sometimes to his own detriment.

That being said I am so, so biased. I am about 3/4 in love with the man, right behind Mitzi who is right behind Sleuther on the Side, and have begun begging my husband to go to law school. So my opinion isn't exactly what I would consider impartial.

ETA: Condescending is a term I would and could gladly use for Mr. Mason though.

 

[Sabrina2011]

Is it not very weird that after 3 years of preparing, the Defense still has so many things they have not done yet and witnesses can't be lined up?

The state had them lined up and around the corner daily, they had them coming in one by one, and they ended ahead of schedule!

What the heck is going on?

 

[Sabrina2011]

I think part of the reason the state did not "also" depose all the defense witnesses was the Judges order clearly stated they cannot render opinions NOT in the report they turn in.

So the state can read the report and prepare to question them on it. I don't think the State realized Baez would try to elicit opinions not in the report.

Now I'm sure JA realizes Baez is capable of anything.

 

[Talina]

BBM. ITA. That is what kills me. How in Hades is he supposed to depose an expert without knowing what the expert's opinion is? How is he supposed to know what questions to ask? *headdesk* He can't possibly just depose the expert on possible opinions or guess at what the expert's opinion is. Baez has on obligation to get that dang report to the SA in a timely manner, not in the middle of the trial, so JA can do his job properly. Stuff like this drives me CRAZY. There are rules and procedures for testimony and depositions for a REASON.

I'd like to think that while we did not see a "dressing down" given to Baez on exactly what you say above, that he (HHJP) did do it in chambers. It defies logic and common sense for Baez to think (1) that he can just send someone to the state attorney's office on any day, unscheduled, but on this particular day Father's Day for pete's sake, and expect them to be given a deposition. and; (2) that Ashton would have anything at all to ask in a deposition since his report (if you want to call it that) lacked any opinions or even said what he would testify about.

I can clearly see Ashton's surprise in seeing this particular witness at the courthouse Friday. He probably thought "what is he doing here? His report said absolutely nothing so what is he going to say on the stand?". Why on earth would he have even asked for this deposition in the past. He most likely thought this expert would not even be called to the stand since what was given over as this expert's report contained nothing in it.

It didn't sound like it was even until Ashton turned him away yesterday afternoon that he even got the later 2 page report with the 45 picture slide show. Now, that has my antenna up. How does one put together a 45 picture slide show in a few hours? I suspect that was already put together along with the 2 page report long before it just all the sudden appeared to Ashton on Sunday evening. Wouldn't that be an interesting question/answer session to hear HHJP have with this witness.

 

[katydid23]

IMO The state was not reprimanded in any way whatsoever. Some people (talking heads mostly) are stretching it pretty thin to insinuate that it was anything to do with the state. While HHJP did not necessarily single Baez out in his speech he gave after Baez spoke, and even mentioned both sides a few times, I don't think there was anyone in that court room or watching that had any question who he was talking to.

After Ashton gave his information and argument to the judge at the beginning of the morning, Baez took to the podium and in his dissertation he whined a lot that he felt Ashton had also been playing games at other times but only Baez was threatened with sanctions and he felt Ashton should have also. A lot of whining that he was being unfairly singled out. He tried to turn the whole fiasco of his trying to blindside and ignore the judge's discovery court order back on Ashton. I do believe he failed miserably given HHJP response once Baez was done.

Also, as with his behavior on Saturday while HHJP was giving his dressing down, Baez was once again very disrespectful to the court in his body language and expressions. IMO of course.

At least the above is my take on the happenings in court this morning. Others here may have additional observations to add or corrections to make.

:seeya:

I totally agree with your observations. Ashton was respectful in his statement to the court. He explained calmly and without emotion, the present situation he was facing. In response, Baez got up and whined, played the victim, tried to point out how unfair and biased the judge has been, and then closed by explaining how impossible the judges discovery rules are, and they prevent him from putting on his case. Oh, and also he reminded us that he spends every single moment working on this case.

I thought he looked kind of silly. imoo

 

[Hisimage]

I don't know the average time, but I've heard of juries coming back in one hour. I am not joking. And this case, I expect them to come back in like ten minutes because of Baez and Casey. I will be completely shocked if they go over an hour, no, half an hour to deliberate.

I was looking around on the internet trying to find the longest and shortest amount of time. Thanks! I would think it would be pretty fast in this one too.But who knows.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

Just a little refresher course in the Hon. JB's resume...

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2009/may/03/casey-anthonys-lawyer-jose-baez-rejected-florida-b/

"His overall behavior, they wrote, showed "a total lack of respect for the rights of others and a total lack of respect for the legal system, which is absolutely inconsistent with the character and fitness qualities required of those seeking to be afforded the highest position of trust and confidence recognized by our system of law."

He worked instead as a paralegal for the Miami-Dade public defender and then taught Internet research to lawyers and started four business ventures, including two bikini companies. Before Florida Bar officials admitted him in 2005, he had to demonstrate that he had rehabilitated himself.

Additionally, the Board found that J.A.B.'s misrepresentations and lack of candor in his answers to the specifications and during his formal hearing testimony were further grounds for disqualification," the Supreme Court wrote.

 

[LyndyLoo]

BBM. ITA. That is what kills me. How in Hades is he supposed to depose an expert without knowing what the expert's opinion is? How is he supposed to know what questions to ask? *headdesk* He can't possibly just depose the expert on possible opinions or guess at what the expert's opinion is. Baez has on obligation to get that dang report to the SA in a timely manner, not in the middle of the trial, so JA can do his job properly. Stuff like this drives me CRAZY. There are rules and procedures for testimony and depositions for a REASON.

I do believe that Judge Perry repeated and outlined precisely just what the court order was and what it meant and recounted exactly the wordings of what the "Expert" reports were to entail..and thus deposition would follow..Depositions were NOT meant to find out what their opinions are or going to be...So It does appear that JB has completely disregarded the original cort order and the supplementary order to be more clear for Baez. So in that case JA is not in violations...and also added.. He (JP) is going to go and read each and every report for "Experts" to find out what their opinions were..Humm..Me thinks JP is just building up further evidence of misconduct by DT and rule to keep out certain witness testimony IF not included in their reports..

JB is in deep trouble..however I dont think he cares..Short term goals..He is no doubt not thinking beyond his 15 minutes of fame..:loser: