2011.06.23 Cindy's Testimony

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I would love to know to. I read Fanning's book, Mommy's Little Girl, and there was really nothing about ICA child and teen years. I'm surprised no friends, neighbors, babysitters have not come out of the woodwork. This case needs ANN RULE

If Casey did not have close friends or normal activities as a young teen, that COULD be flag for something weird or abusive going on in the household...just saying...
 
I was wondering the exact same thing, and discovered that the word CHLOROPHYL (or any variant) was NEVER searched for on the Anthony computer. This information was kindly provided by JWG in a terrific article entitled "The Google Searches and Cindy’s Judas Moment" which can be read here:

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/03/05/the-google-searches-and-cindy/

(Thank you so much JWG :great: !)

But those are only the google searches, right? I guess it's possible CA could have used yahoo for the search if there was one for Chlorophyl at all.

Hopefully the SA will let us know soon.
 
Sure they do. But if a nurse has to google to find out what the effects of alcohol and peroxide are, then that person shouldn't be a nurse. It's not the fact that she looked stuff up, it is the PARTICULAR items she looked up.

ITA. Not to mention that CA has been a nurse since 1979. She initially specialized in PEDIATRICS. Come on, there is no way she had to look that stuff up. :hand:
 
I would love to know to. I read Fanning's book, Mommy's Little Girl, and there was really nothing about ICA child and teen years. I'm surprised no friends, neighbors, babysitters have not come out of the woodwork. This case needs ANN RULE

IIRC they said that ICA was very much into sports as she was growing up.
I think she was just your average kid. Not super-popular, but not a loner either.
You can check out Kio-Maries interviews, and there were also interviews by CA and GA that talked more about her early life. If I can track them down I'll post the links.
 
I think they have her text messages and I think someone asked her to go out but she said she could not. No babysitter. At least I think that is what I read. Hope someone can back me up on that. jmo

I can back you up. I remember that and remember thinking that's when she began seriously plotting to get rid of Caylee. She couldn't take it anymore.

There is nothing wrong with CA loving ICA but why must she stop loving Caylee to do so? Any grandmother would want the person that murdered their grandchild in such a shocking way to pay for what they did. Applying duct tape to the childs face, tripple bagging her, throwing her in the trunk of a car and leaving her their for days then finally tossing her in the woods is absolutely horrible. And after knowing what Caylee went through, CA has proven that she is just as sick as ICA because she is trying to derail the justice that her own grandchild deserves.

I'm sorry, I disagree. If my precious child murdered my precious grandchild, they would not become a monster in my mind. I would not want my daughter, who I carried and nursed and loved and who clasped her little arms around me, to "pay".

I hear people say this and it astonishes me. I don't believe one of you would happily sit and watch your child put to death, "paying" for even a crime as heinous as this.

Instead, I think the instinct in parents who love their kids is to justify, explain and mitigate. I do understand those who say they could not lie in such a situation but I think I would stay silent about any facts that could lead my child to the death penalty. I would speak, though. I would say and think or convince myself that the child I carried and cried over and loved and raised must be very, very sick to have done such a horrible thing. I would beg for treatment for my child, not punishment. And then I'd probably kill myself.

We have to remember. We see casey very differently. We see her as a cold, soulless monster who extinguished and innocent, pure and helpless baby. They see casey as troubled, but their daughter, one of their own babies who they held and rocked and kissed and danced and laughed with. They do not have the distance needed to see the truth.

I don't have the stomach to watch the testimony: Did LDB ask CA what the name of the friend who got in the car accident was (cough..zfg)? I would have.

I don't think I can take it either! And i really, really want to know this because I would pin her down on it and prove it is a lie.

so to clarify... here is what i think you mean, tell me if i am right.

cindy testified today to doing the searches on march 17 for the following: google search for "chloraform" "alcohol" "acetone" "peroxide"
wikipedia search for "inhalation" "chloroform" "alcohol" "acetone" "peroxide" "hydrogen peroxide" and "death"

however, in cross after being asked about specific terms by LDB basically testified that she did NOT do the searches on march 21st for the following:
google searches for "shovel" "neck breaking" "household weapons" "self defense" "how to make chloroform" and Wikipedia search for "shovel"; also searches on blogspot.com, sci-spot.com, druglibrary.org and instructables.com for "making weapons out of household products," "chloroform habit," "chloroform" "how to make chloroform" and "chloro2"

we know from records that george was proven to be at work that day. and cindy said she did not search "how to make chloroform" but rather just "chloroform". and she did not cop to searching for "neck breaking" either, just mentions seeing it - but someone on the computer searched for it, if not cindy. so cindy didn't search for any of the march 21st items, and george was at work. so, logic would extend that casey is the one to do the searches on march 21st. and THOSE searches are the ones that tie into premeditation (she wasn't just researching chloroform, she was researching HOW TO MAKE chloroform, plus all those other SUPER HINKY searches).

did i get it right? if so... i feel much better about all this! thanks for making this point!!! this really cheered me up! :rocker:

i'd be curious to know about what your timesheet documentation was like while you worked for them, if you want to share!

It would be great to open up another thread to discuss other theories about Cindy's testimony today.

It is now my opinion that Cindy was completely truthful on the stand today and EVERYONE WAS CAUGHT OFF GUARD BY LDB'S BRILLIANCE.:great:

http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/files/06.pdf

Look at Cindy's work records (page marked 2561 on bottom right), the March 17th day has the "homework" marked for JB. Too bad the Prosecution didn't mark the 21st for him.

Harmless chloroform searches marked on the 17th, and "intent to kill" wasn't marked on the 21st.

A quick thank you to Cindy:innocent: for not lying. Thank you to their family lawyer too. He confirms her story hasn't changed.

Do you all really believe that CA searched for chloroform, etc., on the 17th? I do believe she lied today. She may have done in it a way that doesn't help casey much, or she may have done it to help GA or maybe because she already committed to such a lie way back when but IMO, she completely lied today about any kind of chloroform search on her part on any date. It never happened. her explanations are mind bogglingly ridiculous and nonsensical.

I believe it is 100% true that Caylee died because of Cindy and they way she raised KC and because of the jealousies there. I also think this is why CA is going out of her way to protect her sociopathic daughter, because she knows it, too, and she bares the brunt of the guilt over what she did.

I get what you are saying. I have seen signs in CA of deep pathology. I think she has all the hallmarks of a person with borderline personality disorder. And I agree that it may have contributed to the person casey is in a serious way.

But ultimately, I cannot totally agree with your post. In the end, it was casey who plotted to murder her baby and who then drugged and smothered the child she was supposed to protect. In the end, it is only casey who bears the guilt for Caylee's murder.

How cynical am I? When I heard Cindy say Casey was arrested on "check charges" I immediately thought she did it on purpose to dig at her daughter and let her know who was in charge. It was not necessary for her to say that at all. I think that dysfunction runs deep.

All JMO

I can see this. To me, it's typical CA. Give casey a bone with a lie and then snatch it back with something that can really hurt. CA is a very conflicted and troubled person. I am certain she has no idea what she is doing and would think anyone is stark raving mad for pointing it out. But I do believe she loves with one hand and hurts with the other and often that occurs at the same time. That's a confusing way to grow up and can make for some real sick kids. And i think it all comes from internal, conflicting feelings that CA cannot face, both about herself and her daughter.
 
They could plea mercy during the penalty phase. There is absolutely no reason to lie on the stand. By doing so, she's actually reinforcing Casey's psychopathic behaviour. Even Casey said "wow" when her mom lied for her. Imagine that!

Would you do that to your child? I wouldn't.

Do you mean quote would I do that to my child or would I do that for my child?
 
BBM-
I've never understood this POV. Why is LA not a killer then? Was there some profound difference in the way they raised him?

My belief is that sweet Caylee died because of Casey and Casey alone. Casey was the one with jealousy issues. Casey was the one who demanded all the attention. Casey was the one who thought the world revolved around her.
People may say that is due to how she was raised, but then once again we go back to why didn't LA have this same narcissistic mindset if it was a result of bad parenting?

No doubt that this is a dysfunctional family, but I'd consider most families dysfunctional, and they are certainly not all killers.

I do agree though that CA likely has a LOT of guilt issues, as most parents do with their kids. I do believe she blames herself and she lives with the 'if onlys' every day of her life and she is trying to save ICA's life because she wasn't able to save Caylee's. She probably thinks if she had been strong enough to sue for custody that they wouldn't be where they are today.

But how could anyone have predicted that ICA would kill her daughter, especially when there were no warning signs of abuse? Who could predict that a bunch of stupid lies were a pre-curser to murder?

JMO

And can I just say that EVERY sexual abuse survivor that I know is not an attention seeker. Thay want to not be noticed....
 
Maybe Lee is the smart one to stay away.

Yes, but to this day he believes everything his sister tells him, or so he said in his depo a while back. That, I believe, has never changed. Wonder what happened to the "I love you" blowy kiss kiss he practically gave her when he got on the stand at the hearings last year. Give me a break....once an Anthony always an Anthony.
 
I am sure the SA will be asking for a Subpoena for the Gentiva records to find out if in fact she was working that day or went home early. Cindy is praying that all that information is lost now, she is sure that they no longer have any information on her at the former workplace.

jmfstl, thanks for pointing that out. Cindy was very clear in stressing the work records would probably not be available now. It was as if she was warning the State not to even try checking.

But they will !

jmo
 
-snipped-
Do you all really believe that CA searched for chloroform, etc., on the 17th? I do believe she lied today. She may have done in it a way that doesn't help casey much, or she may have done it to help GA or maybe because she already committed to such a lie way back when but IMO, she completely lied today about any kind of chloroform search on her part on any date. It never happened. her explanations are mind bogglingly ridiculous and nonsensical.

first - i appreciate your perspective on cindy. it made me think a lot. i still can't help have the "if only" feelings... if only cindy had been able to admit her daughter needed help! ICA told annie d that she was thinking about being committed, that she felt she wasn't being a good mom & wasn't doing well mentally, and then later said she had talked to her mom and was feeling better. i can't help but wonder what convinced her not to go, and how many other times it might have happened. what if she had gotten some good care? maybe ICA would have been able to undergo dialectical behavior therapy or some other therapy effective for hard-to-treat clients or those with borderline personality. hindsight is 20/20, but ICA's pathological behaviors were never treated or taken seriously or given any sort of consequence. and that is unfortunate. (eta: i do not think this makes cindy accountable for the murder, but i do not think of her as simply a victim. she is in a terrible position right now that no one would ever want to be in, and i think if there wasn't such a stigma in general about suffering from mental health issues, it might have been easier to take this seriously instead of be embarrassed about having a pathologically dysfunctional family. but all the same, i do not see any attempts towards getting casey treatment and instead lots of throwing fuel on the fire.)

second, in response to the snipped part, my belief is that cindy lied and that she did not perform the searches on march 17 OR march 21. however, her testimony today did make it seem that she was only "admitting to" (IMO "lying about") the march 17 searches. and so what if she did the march 17 searches? the march 21 searches, which she did NOT "admit to," are the ones that have a much stronger impact on premeditation claims. someone in the house who was not cindy or george performed the more damning searches. cindy claims to have done the more innocent ones that are just information on topics, but she does not claim to have done the ones searching for how to actually make chloroform or household weapons and such. if it wasn't cindy or george, it was probably casey. so this testimony - which i do believe to be false, but even if i accepted it as truth - does not hurt the state's case that casey did the search and that this was premeditation.
 
BBM-
I've never understood this POV. Why is LA not a killer then? Was there some profound difference in the way they raised him?

My belief is that sweet Caylee died because of Casey and Casey alone. Casey was the one with jealousy issues. Casey was the one who demanded all the attention. Casey was the one who thought the world revolved around her.
People may say that is due to how she was raised, but then once again we go back to why didn't LA have this same narcissistic mindset if it was a result of bad parenting?

No doubt that this is a dysfunctional family, but I'd consider most families dysfunctional, and they are certainly not all killers.

I do agree though that CA likely has a LOT of guilt issues, as most parents do with their kids. I do believe she blames herself and she lives with the 'if onlys' every day of her life and she is trying to save ICA's life because she wasn't able to save Caylee's. She probably thinks if she had been strong enough to sue for custody that they wouldn't be where they are today.

But how could anyone have predicted that ICA would kill her daughter, especially when there were no warning signs of abuse? Who could predict that a bunch of stupid lies were a pre-curser to murder?

JMO

I don't think anyone could have predicted this. However, in dysfunctional families, certain kids may be the target of certain kinds of treatment not given to other kids.

I get the sense that CA is dangerously enmeshed with her daughter. Not so much with her son, who is of a different sex. But in casey, she could easily see herself. casey became her - the adorable princess of the family, the wonderful, generous friend who everyone comes to for help and advice and also the unattractive, liar who could never be good enough. CA may feel this way about herself, saw those same things in the little girl she was enmeshed with and raised casey accordingly. It's a mess.
 
first - i appreciate your perspective on cindy. it made me think a lot. i still can't help have the "if only" feelings... if only cindy had been able to admit her daughter needed help! ICA told annie d that she was thinking about being committed, that she felt she wasn't being a good mom & wasn't doing well mentally, and then later said she had talked to her mom and was feeling better. i can't help but wonder what convinced her not to go, and how many other times it might have happened. what if she had gotten some good care? maybe ICA would have been able to undergo dialectical behavior therapy or some other therapy effective for hard-to-treat clients or those with borderline personality. hindsight is 20/20, but ICA's pathological behaviors were never treated or taken seriously or given any sort of consequence. and that is unfortunate.

second, in response to the snipped part, my belief is that cindy lied and that she did not perform the searches on march 17 OR march 21. however, her testimony today did make it seem that she was only "admitting to" (IMO "lying about") the march 17 searches. and so what if she did the march 17 searches? the march 21 searches, which she did NOT "admit to," are the ones that have a much stronger impact on premeditation claims. someone in the house who was not cindy or george performed the more damning searches. cindy claims to have done the more innocent ones that are just information on topics, but she does not claim to have done the ones searching for how to actually make chloroform or household weapons and such. if it wasn't cindy or george, it was probably casey. so this testimony - which i do believe to be false, but even if i accepted it as truth - does not hurt the state's case that casey did the search and that this was premeditation.

Great point.

BTW, I would love, love, love LOVE it if the state introduced that picture of casey that's in your siggy, into evidence. It says it ALL!!
 
I can back you up. I remember that and remember thinking that's when she began seriously plotting to get rid of Caylee. She couldn't take it anymore.



I'm sorry, I disagree. If my precious child murdered my precious grandchild, they would not become a monster in my mind. I would not want my daughter, who I carried and nursed and loved and who clasped her little arms around me, to "pay".

I hear people say this and it astonishes me. I don't believe one of you would happily sit and watch your child put to death, "paying" for even a crime as heinous as this.

respectfully snipped



Through and through, all sum total, this is probably one of the best posts I've ever read at WS. Agree with everything you said... thanks for taking the time to put your thoughts into words.
 
Regarding CA being at work on Mar. 17 and Mar. 21, 2008.......Does anyone recall if CA had to go through the toll booth to get to work. If so, toll records would show when she went through on the way to work and also on the way home.

That might be an easier way to access records for that day than going through Gentiva records, especially if Gentiva's records have not been saved.
 
Perhaps you should start a new thread, starting with your original post, subsequent posts, and links. With a title of something to the effective, CA's testimony today, closer look.

I get the impression that many people are very angry at CA today and might be passing over this thread to keep from boiling over and the information you've provided is too good to pass up.

Can you help me start that thread? I'm too much of a newbie :loser: here to have the courage.
 
One idea occurred to me. You know how George's mistress was supposedly coming in to testify that George told her it was all an accident that got out of control? Well, I've considered that it's too bad the jury hasn't heard all about how George and Cindy seem to have been covering up and making excuses for Casey most of the time, because that might allow them to see how George could say that even if he didn't really believe it. So, why not have Cindy go into her obvious fudging routine, so the jury could get a flavor of Anthony-style "truthiness." Sort of soften them up for understanding the context for George's mistress's testimony and maybe also give them a little hint about why no DNA on clothes, trunk, etc. It just seems like displaying the new, improved Anthonys was going to work against the prosecution eventually.

There are some problems with this theory -- like that Baez is the one who called Cindy to the stand for the defense. But I thought I'd throw it out there.
 
Can you help me start that thread? I'm too much of a newbie :loser: here to have the courage.



Already created by poster MyDailyOpinions, see post 880 above. :)

And Welcome!



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[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141564"]Prosecution Strategy - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

New thread started for those who would like to go further into this discussion. And I 100% agree with all of the above!
 
Some webpages have "sidebar" ads that run a wide variety of advertisements, and I've heard people call them "pop-ups" which they aren't. Myspace used to commonly have those same "sidebar" ads, and many of the were video sites, particularly like skating accidents etc, because the Myspace vs FB crowd at that time, was much larger and much younger.

And that scenario STILL would not show up as a GOOGLE SEARCH for "neck breaking". Respectfully, you are grasping at straws.
 
So, here's the deal....

Following on this 'logic' trail - becomes illogical:

1) If we are to believe CA story today, which is to disprove SA theory, as she is covering up for ICA computer searches, car evidence, etc., then

2) She is saying that she believes in ICA innocence and supporting the DT opening statement;

3) If she is supposedly supporting the DT opening statement, then she is going along with what they said, including sexual abuse of ICA by GA.

BUT,

4) If she believes that -then she would not support GA - the man, her own husband, her child's own father, who was supposedly abusing/molesting her own daughter since a young age.

Everyone with me so far? Anyone? Everyone?

But then we have:

5) CA and GA in support of each other; CA not angry about that statement, nor surprised, nor anything that would seem she believes in any of that story. No revelation to her, and she sits with him in court every day, and goes home with him every night. (That's enough for me as a jury to not believe that. At least you would think the Anthonys would play that part and act like they hate each other after those skeletons came out dancing, right?...But everything looks fine to me)...Plus the fact that,

6) GA denies that accusation while on the stand anyway, so there's no need to pretend, right? That's not true.

Okay, so - logic reverse?:

7) If that's not true - that GA molested ICA, then.....what are the Anthonys saying? That they only believe PART of the DT story?

8) With CA going up and taking responsibility for the searches, possibly perjuring herself, 'remembering better' these days, stain was already there, yadda yadda....that part is true, but....so?

9) Some of what DT says is true and some is not, then?

10) Is a jury supposed to believe that George did NOT abuse ICA when he got up and said he did not, against the DT accusation, but yet they ARE supposed to believe the claims that CA made today in favor of the DT?

Then, there's the rest:

11) So, if we are supposed to believe GA, because he said it wasn't true, then we must remove that being the reason for ICA behavior after her daughter's 'accidental' death - with GA's involvement, mind you.

12) If we remove that reason for her behavior, and there's no other proven mental reason, and she already had knowledge of her death, that removes the excuse for her non-remorse.

13) If that is removed, then that statement by DT is also false.


When the Anthonys were witnesses for Prosecution, they acted in Prosecution favor. When they were witnesses for Defense, they acted in Defense favor.

Can't have both. The Anthonys' own statements and behavior seem to prove the DT opening statement as not true, or at least contradictory. And THEIR behavior is contradictory.

Either way someone loses credibility between them. Or all of them.

Playing both sides of the fence only shows the hypocrisy, lies, and the fact that something is being covered up. If something is being covered up, there is a reason.

Following the logic shows the illogical statements and behavior, and the fallacies become evident.
__
I see parallels with the JBR case and the Rs family covering for each other at all costs, to the detriment of their own little girl....

quoting myself....got moved and buried, and feel it is pertinent to bump....as CA and GA lawyer on Dr. Drew and Nancy Grace tonight dancing through these issues now. To play both sides of the fence causes them this problem.

The issue is starting to come down to them not believing she is innocent, but wanting her not to get the death penalty, and doing anything, including perjury, to affect this. Yet, lawyer says they don't support DT statement of accusations against them.

Sad position to be in, but the jury has to see the fallacies.

One can't be true if the other is not....and it doesn't save their daughter, in my eyes, only buries her deeper. Depends on the jury I guess...
 
Not meant to pick on you in any way, but I'm curious. You say there were 84 searches for chloroform. What would your reaction be if you learned that there was only 1 search and that any information you've heard otherwise is false?

I hate to say it, but I think there really was only one visit to that chloroform site, and that the 84 visits were actually to Myspace. Lord knows anyone can tell from reading my posts that I think ICA is guilty as he77 of cold-blooded murder, but I think the "84" is an error of the "Cache Back" program. This doesn't change my mind about ICA's guilt, however. Even ONE visit to that site, considering the chloroform found in her trunk, was one too many.
 

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