2011.06.27 TRIAL Day Twenty-nine (Afternoon Session)
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Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #192- Latest: girlhasnoname
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ExpectingUnicorns
. . . only the pure of heart can see.
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Whew, they knew about this discovery. :cheerful:
stilettos
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I think that AF was trying to say that SAO was witholding evidence.
I thought he pointed to the court reporter?
I think it's so they can bring it up and get their version (with the psychic) out there before the state can bring it in and use it against KC and JB.
Personally I think DA George is GREAT!! During direct with the "boyfriends" he would pause strategicaly after each incriminating answere. His strenghth is in questioning males not in LE, forensics, etc. What do you more knowledgable WSers (far more) think?
Tulessa
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Just point them to this video that will be posted later.
I know this is serious but I can't stop laughing now...and I feel bad for doing so...
Clu,
Don't feel guilty for laughing. I can't stop laughing myself. This has really been odd and funny testimony. We're not laughing at Caylee ....
wenwe4
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AF w/DC - normal deposition @ SA office anyone ask you
th court reporter present....in 3/2011...
.prior to that when things were fresher in your memory did any
any particular markers in the woods to specifically make a mental note that 3 years later be able to testify....no I took still photos...seen videotape...accurate representation of where you were in the woods....SA #RP and #RO best guess 3 years later....not absolutely accurate...
witness excused.
Softail
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PGWodehouse
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HHJP: Any further questions.
FG: NO SIR!!!
FG: NO SIR!!!
mombomb
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SIDEBAR #9 (5:27-5:29)
5:28
DIRECT EXAMINATION OF DOMINIC CASEY BY AF
He is a private investigator and security officer. He has been licensed in Florida since March of 2008.
On 10/1/08 he was employed by the A's. Prior to that he was employed by the Baez law firm. He terminated that relationship on 10/1/08. He then stated it was overlapping a bit.
For the A's he was following up on tips they received through the tip line and doing security work.
Security work involved dealing with the protestors at the house. The protestors started congregating at the A's home around the first week of September. They congregated there until the end of October. This was the security aspect of his work for the A's. This work caused him to park his vehicle on Suburban Drive. When he left at night after the protestors had left. He would exit onto Chickasaw then turn on Curry Ford, go to the gas station and get a coffee then go back to the Suburban Drive location and sit and park in the event some of the protestors had come back. He did this most evenings.
He was shown Defendant's Exhibit FU (really). This showed where he would park when he came back. He marked an A and an arrow to show where his car was and what direction the car would be pointed in.
He would also see other persons in the area of Suburban Drive. If you went east toward the school, further down, most of the nights there would be a deputy sheriff's cars and one or two of the independent media vehicles.
Document marked as Defense Exhibit 61. This was published to the Jury. (Aw - LDB helped her)
A would be the location of his car - approximately - he would always make sure he parked so the front of his vehicle would be pointing west. LE normally parked further behind so that you wouldn't be able to see them. The media would park anywhere. While parked, he would have his ignition off and his windows down. He did not notice any odors.
At the end of October 2008 he facilitated the sending a teddy bear to Luke Phillips. He acquired an address from Luke Phillips, he provided the address to CA and asked CA if she could send something of Caylee's to him. She said yes and she forwarded a teddy bear. He doesn't know if the bear was returned. He did receive a package at his office for CA. He believes he met her half way and handed her the box. She opened the box and he could see a teddy bear - referred to as "Teddy". The request for an article was way after ICA was sent back to jail - 2 to 3 weeks after. Luke Phillips is a person who contacted the family in July of 2008 and offered help. It was his understanding that Luke Phillips represented two or three psychics. He is not a psychic. He works with people with psychic abilities and aids and searches for people.
On 11/15/08 he went with JH to Suburban Drive. James Hoover was a volunteer that arrived at the A's within a few days of the protestors and volunteered services where he would provide services. He did not work for DC.
On 11/15/08 he was on a cell phone in the vicinity of Suburban Drive. He was talking to Jannette Lucas. To his knowledge, she is a psychic. He went into the woods.
He was shown Exhibit 58. He marked a B to show where he went the first time. He was in Mr. Hoover's car. He had received a call from Jannette Lucas early that morning. As a result he went to Suburban Drive. He was looking for the possible location of Caylee.
At first they pulled up, he got out of the vehicle then started heading toward the school. He was in the middle of the road and told JH to stay in the car. He walked away far enough where he knew he would not be able to hear so that he could talk to Ms. Lucas. He entered into the woods, and marked that on the picture, approximately. He estimated he walked in 20 to 25 feet. Initially, he walked into an area where he could see without having to cut things down. He was in there probably less than 5 minutes.
He then came walking out and noticed that JH was standing within about 10 feet from the curb into the woods with his arm out with a video camera. He did not know prior to that time that JH was video taping. He did not give him permission to do that. DC asked him what he was doing video taping. DC then went to another opening into the woods, west of the first time. He got no more than 20 or 25 feet into the woods from the edge of the curb. It was white sand with 2 or 3 inches of water. It appeared as though the water was flowing from west to east. The water began about 20 feet in. He spent
about 10 minutes or so.
He was looking for three white paver stones - not specifically looking for garbage bags. There were a tremendous amount of garbages back there.
He then came out of the woods onto Suburban Drive and then went to an abandoned house as a result of talking to Jannette Lucas. He was still looking for three paver stones. He was cutting the bags open to see what was inside. He then left to go to a meet and greet with the A's.
He went back to Suburban Drive the next day to prove the psychic wrong. He indicated where he thought he parked. He went into the same openings and wanted to pan around and look to make sure he hadn't missed anything.
He thinks he spent 12 to 15 minutes searching in the woods. Mr. Hoover was with him and video taping with his approval. DC had a probe to probe the earth. He brought the probe because the ground was soft. He did not find what he was looking for.
He then went back to the abandoned house and probed again.
He went back to Suburban Drive a third time without JH. He was on the way to the A's on the following Tuesday or Wednesday. He went for relief. He did not go into the woods. He parked his vehicle (he marked where he parked) and walked east and west and then got in his vehicle and drove off. He walked in the center of the street.
Did he see any other openings that he did not search? It is possible.
He did not see or handle any physical evidence related to this case.
He did not see any bags that appeared to contain human waste.
No further questions.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY FG
When he first became involved in the case, he was working for Baez, then went to work for the A's. He had contact with ICA on 10/14/08. It was his job to investigate the circumstances surrounding Caylee's disappearance.
He never asked ICA?
OBJECTION - way beyond scope -
SIDEBAR #10 (6:10-6:28
Jury being returned at 6:28 (didn't realize they were gone!)
Even after he went to work for the A's, he had contact from time to time with JB.
On 11/15/08 - first time into the woods - he went there because of the psychic, Janette. Was CA desperate at this point?
OBJECTION - SUSTAINED
How was her mood during this time?
OBJECTION - OVERRULED
She was traumatized and missing her grand-daughter. So was GA.
He was going there at the direction of a psychic that called him. That was the sole purpose. CA and GA did not send him into the woods.
He showed the witness RO and stated he recognized the picture of Suburban Drive. He was asked to mark with a blue pen where he believes his car was parked on 11/15/08. He said he couldn't because the angle of the photo was deceptive.
He did not park his vehicle on 11/15/08 - it was JH's car. He approximated where it was. He then marked where he believes he walked into the woods. He came out of the woods in the same place he went in.
He was asked to mark how far in he went. He felt it would be extremely inaccurate because it was not a scaled photo. It was 20 to 25 feet from the asphalt. Did he recall saying he went up to 50 feet into the woods? He stated that was entirely possible.
He was then shown RO as a demonstrative aide at this point. He then marked where he believed he went into the woods.
When did you see the broken toilet? He thought he saw it on both days. There was an old toilet sitting in the woods. There were numerous black trash bags sitting on the ground. They were like yard trash. He cut a few of them open.
He also found a bath mat torn up. It was not a towel or a blanket.
He did not see a red Disney bag.
His trips into the woods were not an exhaustive search.
On 11/15 he was not on the phone the entire time - there were a couple of pauses in between phone calls.
After he came out, he went into an abandoned house by the retention pond.
On 11/15 there was water in the woods - about 2 to 3 inches in some places. If you walked in 20 to 25 feet you would be standing in about ankle deep water. The elevation of the ground drops about 6 feet from street level and then the water was traveling from west to east.
He saw the same amount of water the next day.
The water was not like a river - it was like 12 or 15 feet, then a dry spot, then another 20 feet. You could see a definite flow of water.
After he cut open some of the trash bags, he did not get on his hands and knees to go through the muck.
He then showed the witness what has been marked as RP - the same photo. He was then asked to mark where Mr. Hoover parked. He believes he was on the phone with Jannette Lucas this time too. She told him he needed to go back there.
At the end of the day on Saturday -
On 11/15 after his search in the woods, he tried to contact Jannette Lucas and he reached Luke Phillips.
On 11/16 he spoke to her. He told her where he had gone and what he had seen. He then went back to Suburban Drive.
He marked on the photo where he believed he went into the woods on 11/16. He exited the woods in the same location that he entered it. He changed directions when he walked into the woods. He marked the direction he believes he traveled. It was toward Hopespring Drive. He still saw water on the ground. He had a probe with him this time and a trowel. He doesn't believe he used the trowel/shovel in the woods.
He was then shown Exhibit RP and it was published to the Jury. Any difference in where you walked in or walked out? It's going to be in the same region - plus or minus 10 feet.
He understood that there was no audio on the tape - he forbid that. He found out today that there was audio. This is the first time he heard the audio. It had been rumored before.
He wrote on the picture where he entered the woods and where the car was parked. He then wrote 11/16/08 and initialed it.
He then went back to RO and wrote the words entered woods, car parked and dated and initialed it.
Regarding his third visit, he walked the street of Suburban up to the school then toward Hopespring, then back to his car. He never left the street. He did not go into the woods that day.
No more questions.
REDIRECT EXAM BY AF
(AF conferring with JB)
He was shown Exhibit RO. He marked #1 for his first entry into the woods and a #2 for the second entry. He then drew a circle to indicate the area of the woods that he thinks he covered on those two trips.
He keeps saying these are estimations because he did not have a tape measure and this is 3 years of memory.
Has any LE shown him pictures and asked where he went?
OBJECTION - OVERRULED
He then stated that the SAO did. He put circles and X's on a map in 3/11.
SIDEBAR #11 (7:04-7:06)
This meeting on 3/11, this was a depo? Yes, with a court reporter.
In 2008, did anyone with the OCSO sit down and ask him to map out or detail where he had been in the woods. Not to his knowledge.
On 11/15 or 16 he did not have a tape measure. He took still photos.
He agreed that the video is the accurate representation of where he was in the woods on those days.
The marks on the pictures are his best guess 3 years later. He would not say they are accurate.
Witness is excused.
5:28
DIRECT EXAMINATION OF DOMINIC CASEY BY AF
He is a private investigator and security officer. He has been licensed in Florida since March of 2008.
On 10/1/08 he was employed by the A's. Prior to that he was employed by the Baez law firm. He terminated that relationship on 10/1/08. He then stated it was overlapping a bit.
For the A's he was following up on tips they received through the tip line and doing security work.
Security work involved dealing with the protestors at the house. The protestors started congregating at the A's home around the first week of September. They congregated there until the end of October. This was the security aspect of his work for the A's. This work caused him to park his vehicle on Suburban Drive. When he left at night after the protestors had left. He would exit onto Chickasaw then turn on Curry Ford, go to the gas station and get a coffee then go back to the Suburban Drive location and sit and park in the event some of the protestors had come back. He did this most evenings.
He was shown Defendant's Exhibit FU (really). This showed where he would park when he came back. He marked an A and an arrow to show where his car was and what direction the car would be pointed in.
He would also see other persons in the area of Suburban Drive. If you went east toward the school, further down, most of the nights there would be a deputy sheriff's cars and one or two of the independent media vehicles.
Document marked as Defense Exhibit 61. This was published to the Jury. (Aw - LDB helped her)
A would be the location of his car - approximately - he would always make sure he parked so the front of his vehicle would be pointing west. LE normally parked further behind so that you wouldn't be able to see them. The media would park anywhere. While parked, he would have his ignition off and his windows down. He did not notice any odors.
At the end of October 2008 he facilitated the sending a teddy bear to Luke Phillips. He acquired an address from Luke Phillips, he provided the address to CA and asked CA if she could send something of Caylee's to him. She said yes and she forwarded a teddy bear. He doesn't know if the bear was returned. He did receive a package at his office for CA. He believes he met her half way and handed her the box. She opened the box and he could see a teddy bear - referred to as "Teddy". The request for an article was way after ICA was sent back to jail - 2 to 3 weeks after. Luke Phillips is a person who contacted the family in July of 2008 and offered help. It was his understanding that Luke Phillips represented two or three psychics. He is not a psychic. He works with people with psychic abilities and aids and searches for people.
On 11/15/08 he went with JH to Suburban Drive. James Hoover was a volunteer that arrived at the A's within a few days of the protestors and volunteered services where he would provide services. He did not work for DC.
On 11/15/08 he was on a cell phone in the vicinity of Suburban Drive. He was talking to Jannette Lucas. To his knowledge, she is a psychic. He went into the woods.
He was shown Exhibit 58. He marked a B to show where he went the first time. He was in Mr. Hoover's car. He had received a call from Jannette Lucas early that morning. As a result he went to Suburban Drive. He was looking for the possible location of Caylee.
At first they pulled up, he got out of the vehicle then started heading toward the school. He was in the middle of the road and told JH to stay in the car. He walked away far enough where he knew he would not be able to hear so that he could talk to Ms. Lucas. He entered into the woods, and marked that on the picture, approximately. He estimated he walked in 20 to 25 feet. Initially, he walked into an area where he could see without having to cut things down. He was in there probably less than 5 minutes.
He then came walking out and noticed that JH was standing within about 10 feet from the curb into the woods with his arm out with a video camera. He did not know prior to that time that JH was video taping. He did not give him permission to do that. DC asked him what he was doing video taping. DC then went to another opening into the woods, west of the first time. He got no more than 20 or 25 feet into the woods from the edge of the curb. It was white sand with 2 or 3 inches of water. It appeared as though the water was flowing from west to east. The water began about 20 feet in. He spent
about 10 minutes or so.
He was looking for three white paver stones - not specifically looking for garbage bags. There were a tremendous amount of garbages back there.
He then came out of the woods onto Suburban Drive and then went to an abandoned house as a result of talking to Jannette Lucas. He was still looking for three paver stones. He was cutting the bags open to see what was inside. He then left to go to a meet and greet with the A's.
He went back to Suburban Drive the next day to prove the psychic wrong. He indicated where he thought he parked. He went into the same openings and wanted to pan around and look to make sure he hadn't missed anything.
He thinks he spent 12 to 15 minutes searching in the woods. Mr. Hoover was with him and video taping with his approval. DC had a probe to probe the earth. He brought the probe because the ground was soft. He did not find what he was looking for.
He then went back to the abandoned house and probed again.
He went back to Suburban Drive a third time without JH. He was on the way to the A's on the following Tuesday or Wednesday. He went for relief. He did not go into the woods. He parked his vehicle (he marked where he parked) and walked east and west and then got in his vehicle and drove off. He walked in the center of the street.
Did he see any other openings that he did not search? It is possible.
He did not see or handle any physical evidence related to this case.
He did not see any bags that appeared to contain human waste.
No further questions.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY FG
When he first became involved in the case, he was working for Baez, then went to work for the A's. He had contact with ICA on 10/14/08. It was his job to investigate the circumstances surrounding Caylee's disappearance.
He never asked ICA?
OBJECTION - way beyond scope -
SIDEBAR #10 (6:10-6:28
Jury being returned at 6:28 (didn't realize they were gone!)
Even after he went to work for the A's, he had contact from time to time with JB.
On 11/15/08 - first time into the woods - he went there because of the psychic, Janette. Was CA desperate at this point?
OBJECTION - SUSTAINED
How was her mood during this time?
OBJECTION - OVERRULED
She was traumatized and missing her grand-daughter. So was GA.
He was going there at the direction of a psychic that called him. That was the sole purpose. CA and GA did not send him into the woods.
He showed the witness RO and stated he recognized the picture of Suburban Drive. He was asked to mark with a blue pen where he believes his car was parked on 11/15/08. He said he couldn't because the angle of the photo was deceptive.
He did not park his vehicle on 11/15/08 - it was JH's car. He approximated where it was. He then marked where he believes he walked into the woods. He came out of the woods in the same place he went in.
He was asked to mark how far in he went. He felt it would be extremely inaccurate because it was not a scaled photo. It was 20 to 25 feet from the asphalt. Did he recall saying he went up to 50 feet into the woods? He stated that was entirely possible.
He was then shown RO as a demonstrative aide at this point. He then marked where he believed he went into the woods.
When did you see the broken toilet? He thought he saw it on both days. There was an old toilet sitting in the woods. There were numerous black trash bags sitting on the ground. They were like yard trash. He cut a few of them open.
He also found a bath mat torn up. It was not a towel or a blanket.
He did not see a red Disney bag.
His trips into the woods were not an exhaustive search.
On 11/15 he was not on the phone the entire time - there were a couple of pauses in between phone calls.
After he came out, he went into an abandoned house by the retention pond.
On 11/15 there was water in the woods - about 2 to 3 inches in some places. If you walked in 20 to 25 feet you would be standing in about ankle deep water. The elevation of the ground drops about 6 feet from street level and then the water was traveling from west to east.
He saw the same amount of water the next day.
The water was not like a river - it was like 12 or 15 feet, then a dry spot, then another 20 feet. You could see a definite flow of water.
After he cut open some of the trash bags, he did not get on his hands and knees to go through the muck.
He then showed the witness what has been marked as RP - the same photo. He was then asked to mark where Mr. Hoover parked. He believes he was on the phone with Jannette Lucas this time too. She told him he needed to go back there.
At the end of the day on Saturday -
On 11/15 after his search in the woods, he tried to contact Jannette Lucas and he reached Luke Phillips.
On 11/16 he spoke to her. He told her where he had gone and what he had seen. He then went back to Suburban Drive.
He marked on the photo where he believed he went into the woods on 11/16. He exited the woods in the same location that he entered it. He changed directions when he walked into the woods. He marked the direction he believes he traveled. It was toward Hopespring Drive. He still saw water on the ground. He had a probe with him this time and a trowel. He doesn't believe he used the trowel/shovel in the woods.
He was then shown Exhibit RP and it was published to the Jury. Any difference in where you walked in or walked out? It's going to be in the same region - plus or minus 10 feet.
He understood that there was no audio on the tape - he forbid that. He found out today that there was audio. This is the first time he heard the audio. It had been rumored before.
He wrote on the picture where he entered the woods and where the car was parked. He then wrote 11/16/08 and initialed it.
He then went back to RO and wrote the words entered woods, car parked and dated and initialed it.
Regarding his third visit, he walked the street of Suburban up to the school then toward Hopespring, then back to his car. He never left the street. He did not go into the woods that day.
No more questions.
REDIRECT EXAM BY AF
(AF conferring with JB)
He was shown Exhibit RO. He marked #1 for his first entry into the woods and a #2 for the second entry. He then drew a circle to indicate the area of the woods that he thinks he covered on those two trips.
He keeps saying these are estimations because he did not have a tape measure and this is 3 years of memory.
Has any LE shown him pictures and asked where he went?
OBJECTION - OVERRULED
He then stated that the SAO did. He put circles and X's on a map in 3/11.
SIDEBAR #11 (7:04-7:06)
This meeting on 3/11, this was a depo? Yes, with a court reporter.
In 2008, did anyone with the OCSO sit down and ask him to map out or detail where he had been in the woods. Not to his knowledge.
On 11/15 or 16 he did not have a tape measure. He took still photos.
He agreed that the video is the accurate representation of where he was in the woods on those days.
The marks on the pictures are his best guess 3 years later. He would not say they are accurate.
Witness is excused.
Turnadot
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