2011.07.08 - Dateline NBC

[kelian36]

I just now finished watching the Dateline show on the NBC site. After watching the show, which is excellent by the way, and after being in shock since the verdict was read, I now believe Casey will feel the wrath of many. For the majority of us, first came shock, then anger. Casey probably does need life guards.

 

[Hot Dogs]

What happens to duct tape when it is stuck to a garbage bag and left in a hot car trunk OR a steaming hot summer dumpsite? IT MELTS TOGETHER WITH THE THIN PLASTIC BAG. There is no way that tape would come loose from the bag and still have any adhesive.

Melt together? What are you talking about? Duct tape is made to be used on heating system ducts. That's why it's called duct tape.

This particular duct tape had a much higher temperature rating than normal duct tape.

Melt together? Was the white trash bag in the trunk melted to the trash within it? No. No melted plastic in that trunk.

 

[Mulegirl]

Sorry to break this news to you, but I am a high school teacher and you will be seeing more and more people like this being released into society. Another example is that idiot 28 year old who flipped off JA. That's 12 year old behavior, but this idiot thought he was being cool. That was my favorite part of the whole trial when Judge Perry nailed him right then and there. He thought he was going to get out of it by saying how sorry he was.

This and the alt juror's comment about her seeming sincere makes me think of a book I finished reading shortly before this trial began. It's called "Alone Together" and the author writes of extreme concern about a growing lack of empathy and understanding of social cues in a generation that has grown up with "social networking" and texting instead of face-to-face interaction. If I thought I was distressed about our future after reading this book, I'm really triply concerned now. :sick:

Could it be that this guy really did think she seemed sincere because he lacks the ability to read other people the way the rest of us do? I'm having so much trouble wrapping my head around all this.

 

[magnolia]

I would be very interested to know the true reason of why they were crying. Sick to their stomach? Juror #3 said, they were crying because they had to get that verdict.(Get is not the word I would have used. She used it) This explanation does not fit the "not guilty" verdict. Emotional compassion for Casey Anthony....we are giving her life back, better fits the not guilty verdict.IMO

 

[Just Jayla]

I would be very interested to know the true reason of why they were crying. Sick to their stomach? Juror #3 said, they were crying because they had to get that verdict.(Get is not the word I would have used. She used it) This explanation does not fit the "not guilty" verdict. Emotional compassion because we are giving Casey Anthony her life back, better fits the not guilty verdict.IMO

See said they just sat own and were dumbfounded at the question of how Caylee died.

:waitasec:

I think Dr. G explained it without having to mention DNA, hairs, trunks, smells, partying, molestation, or anything else when she stated simply:

Didn't call in a drowning: Homicide
Trashed the baby: Homicide
Duct tape on a child's face: Homicide

And, IMO, Dr. Spitz did nothing to refute that. It was that simple for the jury, they chose not to see it that way because they wanted some huge uber-scientific, "ah -hah" epiphany.

 

[Mulegirl]

I TOTALLY Agree! While watching I was intrigued by the science...but because I live in the area, I KNEW the SA was leaving out so much that would really drive it all home to just how warped and twisted family dynamic of KC, CA and GA really was...I wouldn't call it reality tv world DRAMA but it would have solidified the MOTIVE. After the state rested I felt very uneasy...I thought to myself THAT'S all you have, this is not good. Not one person testified to the love/hate relationship between KC and CA. Everyone testified that KC was a good mom. IMO, leaving out the true nature of the family dynamic was a HUGE mistake on the SA part and I still don't understand why they didn't pursue that more.

IIRC, Ashton covers this in the Dateline (but I've seen so many post-verdict shows I could be wrong about this being the one). He said what I've thought all along. The state could NOT introduce any of this because the only people that could legally testify about it -- i.e., where it wouldn't be classified as hearsay -- were family members that were uncooperative. Specifically CA, who proved she would lie on the stand. So there was no way of introducing that in a way that wouldn't backfire on them when someone (CA) opted to outright lie on the stand. That's why I hold her partially responsible for this verdict.

:cow:

 

[katydid23]

There's more than one way to tape up a plastic trash bag, and the "O" around the opening is just one way.

There was also a fourth and longer strip of Henkel tape found away from the skull and bags. Who knows where and how that one fits into the situation?

Tape may have also been used to seal punctures in the bag(s).

What happens to duct tape when it is stuck to a garbage bag and left in a hot car trunk OR a steaming hot summer dumpsite? IT MELTS TOGETHER WITH THE THIN PLASTIC BAG. There is no way that tape would come loose from the bag and still have any adhesive.

That tape was on the baby's face. That tape held the mandible in place. I do not understand how they can ignore the mandible in their rejection of the duct tape evidence.

 

[Hezrah]

I really don't want to speak negatively of the jurors, as we do not know them personally, however, each time they make statements explaining why they came to their decision of "not guilty" of the major charges, I am left with the obvious conclusion that they must not retained critical points of the 6 week testimony, and chose not to review it for whatever reason-for example: one juror on dateline last night stated that there was no DNA and no stain in the trunk-I remember pretty concrete testimony showing that any DNA that would been present after the crime occurred would have degraded/decomposed in the trunk over the 31+ days until the car was inspected. Compounds consistent with decomposition were left behind-did they listen to hours of testimony of Dr Vass, as I did? Did they listen to all of the witnesses describing the smell in the trunk that was not trash (mind you there was no food in the bag). The bodily fluids continued to decompose in the trunk when they left Caylee's body-destroying any DNA that would have been present. Remember-heat facilitates and speeds this process up. The remains and items with the remains (duct tape) were exposed to the elements that destroy DNA-Heat and Water! Juror # 3 stated the pros never explained how/where the chloroform could have been applied-she speculated-in the car, at a public place? I remember specific evidence the pros showed that yes, Casey left the house on that fateful day, but the cell phone records show she had gone back home when George left for at least 4 hrs. I wonder if we were watching the same trial. Did anyone listen to Dr G? I could go on, but it is obvious to me that the jury did what the pros asked them to do-use their common sense. However, they tried to make common sense of how this pretty young mother could have done this and did not use common sense with the evidence-which is what they were supposed to do. You cannot make any sense out of Casey and her actions, b/c nothing she does makes sense. I have to accept this verdict b/c it is over and I am really trying.

 

[Mulegirl]

Since the PT put forth the theory that the duct tape was the murder weapon, it actually does matter.

Actually, it does not matter for the same reasons that JB's absurd explanation doesn't matter. OS and CS are not evidence, they are meant only to provide a jury with potential ways of looking at what evidence is or is not provided during the trial.

MOO.

 

[Nehemiah]

Jeff Ashton said when they questioned Cindy she denied it. She lied and told them they had a great happy evening together watching a movie (snuggled up I believe is the word he used)

Casey was with Baez so would not talk and denied a fight, Lee denied it when questioned

They could not use it. The aunt reported it because Grandma told her, but its hearsay

Yet another example of "working the plan" to get Casey acquitted: one big happy family. Love was in the air.

 

[Hot Dogs]

What happens to duct tape when it is stuck to a garbage bag and left in a hot car trunk OR a steaming hot summer dumpsite? IT MELTS TOGETHER WITH THE THIN PLASTIC BAG. There is no way that tape would come loose from the bag and still have any adhesive.

Continuing to use the word MELT won't make the duct tape melt. The temperaures in the trunk or swamp don't get high enough to melt Henkel High Temp duct tape.

Besides that, the tape itself shows no sign of melting - like drips, or gooey stretching.

 

[Nehemiah]

Exactly - the 2 things that didn't need to be proven. Even if they understood the instructions that those 2 things didn't need to be proven doesn't mean that they didn't WANT to hear them. I think that is where they felt the reasonable doubt came in. It seems the whole trial didn't make sense to them without the motive and cause of death. Maybe there is a better way to word juror instructions, I don't know. Even excluding the things I know that weren't shown at trial, I think I would have voted to convict on at least child abuse and manslaughter.

Jeff Ashton said as soon as he heard innocent on the child abuse he knew they were going to let her off. He said he accepts that they didn't see the evidence of the duck tape and her disposal in the swamp the same way he did.

One person (I think it was the young alt. juror) didn't understand why someone would use duck tape if they wanted to smother someone else.

I bet Scott Peterson wishes he had lived in Florida.

 

[LambChop]

Continuing to use the word MELT won't make the duct tape melt. The temperaures in the trunk or swamp don't get high enough to melt Henkel High Temp duct tape.

Besides that, the tape itself shows no sign of melting - like drips, or gooey stretching.

I get what the poster is trying to say. When duct tape sticks to a bag and it's hot or not, just being on the black plastic bag, when you try to pull it off what happens is the black plastic bag rips. The tape is stronger than the plastic for sure. Henkel tape was good up to 200 degrees so you are right it did not melt. jmo

 

[Nehemiah]

Sounds to me he was more interested in Casey's hitting him up when she got out.

That could probably be arranged?

 

[eljay]

I find it interesting that both the jurors and the alternate jurors we've heard from so far tend to use the same phrases, such as KC was a 'good mom' and George was 'evasive' and 'combative'. Seems too contrived. Looks like they got their stories straight.

These people 'pre-deliberated' in the comfort of their hotel rooms.

 

[katydid23]

Melt together? What are you talking about? Duct tape is made to be used on heating system ducts. That's why it's called duct tape.

This particular duct tape had a much higher temperature rating than normal duct tape.

Melt together? Was the white trash bag in the trunk melted to the trash within it? No. No melted plastic in that trunk.

YES. Melt together. DUCT TAPE is designed to be put on ducts, pipes, plumbing equipment, and NOT thin plastic bags. THAT is what melts together. The adhesive from the tape becomes enmeshed with the super thin plastic of the bag.

I have seen it happen myself. And the heat of the trunk and the hot Florida sun for 6 months would prevent that tape from coming loose from a plastic garbage bag and resticking in the hair.

And again, what about the mandible?

THAT tape was stuck to that poor child's face. No doubt in my mind. I cannot say for sure if it was before or after her death, but it was on her face. And that right there should have been enough for at least the aggravated CA or the manslaughter charge.

 

[clv129]

does anone know if the cadaver dogs were taken into the house?

 

[strach304]

Actually, it does not matter for the same reasons that JB's absurd explanation doesn't matter. OS and CS are not evidence, they are meant only to provide a jury with potential ways of looking at what evidence is or is not provided during the trial.

MOO.

For all we know it is the trunk that was the murder weapon. One thing I am convinced of is Caylee was put in that car trunk.

 

[strach304]

does anone know if the cadaver dogs were taken into the house?

No they were not. I think that was YM that testified to that.

 

[katydid23]

Continuing to use the word MELT won't make the duct tape melt. The temperaures in the trunk or swamp don't get high enough to melt Henkel High Temp duct tape.

Besides that, the tape itself shows no sign of melting - like drips, or gooey stretching.

The adhesive portion was no longer connected to the backside tape itself--correct?

And there were no rips, or tears or marks on the bags showing there was ever tape on there--correct?

When I say melt, I mean that the thin plastic garbage bag material would stick and become one with the strong adhesive after 6 months of intense heat. imoo

Have you ever tried to tear duct tape off of a plastic bag after it has been in the sun for 6 months?