2012.05.17 Doc Dump Thread

[Dr.Fessel]

We've been over this before. If he was getting pistol-whipped, maybe. Mere recoil? That's some super stretching there.

The slide coming back and hitting him in the nose is very possible.

 

[mikeysmommom]

Given this newly revealed evidence, I find the 2nd degree charge even more outrageous today than I previously did. The evidence shows that GZ was beaten, and that TM was not. And that GZ was identified as the person screaming for help. IMO, the fact that GZ has been tried and convicted in the media, seems enough for the SA. I don't think the evidence has anything to do with the charges she brought. What a mess!

JMO, OMO, and MOO.

I agree!!!! When this first happened I signed the petition, I was hoodwinked from the media's BS.It is horrifying what has happened in this case, and it can happen to anyone IMO. I really feel bad for TM parents because IMO not only have they lost a son but they have been badly used by those who are only searching for their pot of gold and not the truth JMO.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Then why are you stating it as fact?

Well one reason is they said he cooperated, refusing to take a test would not be cooperating.

 

[m00c0w]

The slide coming back and hitting him in the nose is very possible.

Sure. With enough force to "likely" break it and cause two black eyes? And hit him waaay back on the bridge of the nose close to the eye?

Nah. JMO.

 

[Velouria]

I'm saying we haven't heard either way, and shouldn't go around stating it as fact. There's enough confusion without adding these suppositions and specious allegations with no factual backing to the mix.

Well, there was no drug testing done on GZ, so either he was never asked to take one, or he declined. No specious allegations necessary.

 

[m00c0w]

Well one reason is they said he cooperated, refusing to take a test would not be cooperating.

He was not obligated to take a test. You can still be cooperative without waiving your fourth amendment rights.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Sure. With enough force to "likely" break it and cause two black eyes? And hit him waaay back on the bridge of the nose close to the eye?

Nah. JMO.

Sure, that is what that mark on the side of his nose looks like.

 

[m00c0w]

Well, there was no drug testing done on GZ, so either he was never asked to take one, or he declined. No specious allegations necessary.

Which was it, though?

 

[m00c0w]

Sure, that is what that mark on the side of his nose looks like.

So he was holding it up against his eye? Are you serious?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I don't believe TM was ever punched by GZ. I don't think GZ ever claims he punched TM.
And GZ does have injuries to back of the head and face.
So I am really not getting your point.

I thought I was clear, but I will try again.

The opinion of the OP, if I understand it correctly, is that TM could not have been attacked by GZ because TM had no defensive injuries.

This logic dictates, then, that conversely if TM attacked GZ, GZ would have defensive injuries.

Yet none of GZ's reported injuries have been described as defensive injuries.

Therefore, if the lack of defensive injuries on TM = GZ never attacked him, then by the same logic the lack of defensive injuries on GZ = TM never attacked him, either.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

He was not obligated to take a test. You can still be cooperative without waiving your fourth amendment rights.

If you don't cooperate by taking a test that is your right but you can't say you were cooperative.

 

[marlame]

Because the graphic, brutal stories we have heard from GZ do not match the photographic evidence.It is inconsistent.And wouldn't GZ have whiplash from his head being banged on concrete? I would think a neck-brace would be needed.

Not to mention...I would think a trip to the ER would have helped bolster GZ case, too. Who wouldn't go to the ER after being beat as severly as GZ camp has claimed? I just can't figure out Why GZ refused to go to ER? This has nagged at me since I began reading about this case...


JMHO~

 

[Just K]

jmo. I expected the witness statements to have a little more consistency. It is interesting to read how people interpret/describe an event differently.

Many of them saw only the end. A few saw the middle. Apparently, no one saw the very beginning of the face to face that TM's GF heard the very beginning of...

 

[m00c0w]

If you don't cooperate by taking a test that is your right but you can't say you were cooperative.

So you would deem someone that answered all questions and cooperated in all other forms than submitting to an invasive test as uncooperative?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

So he was holding it up against his eye? Are you serious?

Oh wait, I thought he was in a death struggle with him and the subject moving around trying to kill each other and not telling what position they were in when the shot went off. But he was probably is his target range shooting stance holding his breath and squeezing the trigger.

 

[mikeysmommom]

It's hard to believe if there was a struggle for the gun going on that someone would use all of their energy screaming for help....wouldn't they turn all their focus on trying to get the gun first?And then if they lost the battle they would probably yell like out of fear. jmo

No because once you lose that battle your dead. I am a woman but I can and did have a knock down fight in my younger days and as I was fighting like crazy punching ,kicking,clawing kneeing and screaming loud enough to wake the dead.Screaming does not take any energy away when your in a fight for your life IMO. I screamed hoping someone would help me but I also fought like heck fight or flight takes over and when you can not take flight,your adrenalin kicks in IMO.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

So you would deem someone that answered all questions and cooperated in all other forms than submitting to an invasive test as uncooperative?

Yes I would, because that would tell me he was hiding something. That is what good cops do, they are suspicious.

 

[mikeysmommom]

Oh wait, I thought he was in a death struggle with him and the subject moving around trying to kill each other and not telling what position they were in when the shot went off. But he was probably is his target range shooting stance holding his breath and squeezing the trigger.

In a target range shooting stance your standing,I have not seen any documents stating GZ was standing if you have can I have the link?TIA
Plus if GZ was standing wouldn't that be a murder 1 charge?

 

[m00c0w]

Oh wait, I thought he was in a death struggle with him and the subject moving around trying to kill each other and not telling what position they were in when the shot went off. But he was probably is his target range shooting stance holding his breath and squeezing the trigger.

Who holds their breath when they shoot? That's poor marksmanship training.

Are you suggesting his face was inches from Martin's body? Or are you suggesting he had the gun up to his face, pretty much slap up against the bridge of his nose when he shot? And somehow got an amazingly accurate shot at Martin's chest? That wasn't at any great angle?

Hmm...

 

[jaded cat]

So you would deem someone that answered all questions and cooperated in all other forms than submitting to an invasive test as uncooperative?

How is taking a pee test invasive? Or blowing into an alcohol detector? They make people applying for a job at Walmart do a pee test. I don't think someone who admitted to shooting someone else should be held to a lower standard.