2015.06.29 Sequence of Details learned from the discovery documents

[cebee]

Back in Skinners posts he mentioned that MS told him MP was so horrified finding her that he threw up... but I am not seeing that on any of the police reports unless I am missing something. Any guesses why MS would make that up? Enjoying the whole drama way too much in my book....

 

[MinnesotaMary]

Yeah, like what does one talk about during the "down-time, on the drive home?"

1.) My guess is that they were very relaxed, laughing & bragging & a time or two complimenting the other on how brilliant each was, so happy, giddy, JR telling bridegroom CWW to 'go ahead, supersize those fries!' I would guess, too, that they'd had so very many hours of practice driving everywhere deliberately obeying all traffic laws & acting seemingly non-suspicious (remember a lot of police are out there in unmarked cars...) that had a special way about them so that in their minds they seemed so innocent, like 2 'regular men in a car' just out for a quick errand. I bet they were so relaxed they LOVED having all those murder trophies with them in the car - they weren't in fear of a police stop & search, but delighted to have their trophies so close, available for later viewing by each of them (for the rest of their lives!!). I bet they were really bragging & back-slapping eachother over what off-the-graph SmartestMenInTheWholeWideWorld they were to have that brilliant idea to leave that brand spanking new hammer from Walmart next to TS' body !! (Yeah, that hammer would really throw the police off their trail:great:......!

2.) WHAT I ABSOLUTELY CANNOT FIGURE OUT, & CAN MAKE SENSE IS THIS: Why in the world would those 2 stay in the home so long & WHY WOULD THEY NOT LEAVE WELL BEFORE DAWN ??? I cannot understand why in the world that would happen. People in that area have dogs, would be out at crack of dawn walking their dogs on leashes. It even has me wonder is BS had her times muddled & it was her who fiddled with the alarm early --- no way would the 2 (of the 3 IMO) murderers deliberately stay in the home so close in time to BS' arrival & no way would they want to be leaving the home under light of day - bright Fla. sunrise, remember. Can anyone here make a bit of sense out of that mystery?

3.) I can't 'put myself in his mind' to really understand this, but CWW & MS were so incredibly tied to the hip of one another that 'out of honor' (ick - gets me ill, the thought......) CWW will never tattle tale on buddy/BFF MS. I bet CWW 'luvs' MS so much that CWW doesn't feel any hostility to MS whatsoever (anger/rage that MS is roaming free & CWW will always be locked up). For sure CWW went through 'MS withdrawal!!' when he first got locked up & entirely cut off from MS for good!

I GUESS that JR will never be a blabber mouth either, probably because he 'hates all law enforcement' so wouldn't 'give them the satisfaction'/'wouldn't do them any favors', & also, especially early on, JR would be so, so, so mad at his GF for ratting him out (even tho', IMO, she sure hedged, w/held info', & only felt pressured into tattling on Her Man by her fam') - remember JR's GF did not learn any of that by accident but because JR was so very proud he bragged to her about it!!

I SUPPOSE hypothetically it is good to hear that 'all (the unarrested MO' ladies) are in therapy' now, but gheesh IMO all that is nothin' but further complete & utter waste of taxpayer dollars. THIS IS IMO ONLY !

4.) Just after the murder, because word of 'a hammer' was leaked right away, my impression is that MS was furious at CWW but also scared all was going to unravel & scared 'wild cannon' JR would be the one to bring MS down. I guess all I can imagine is that CWW 'hates' all law enforcement & county child social services. This has all gone on so very long now my mouth will drop if I ever wake one day & read here that MS was arrested --- I can't figure what possibly could become known now that took so very much time to be learned by police. This crime strikes me as super bizarre how MS has been out walking free nonstop - so many months have gone by (in the Fred Neulander case, approx. six years post-conviction, 1 of the 2 ****s he hired to commit the 'blood & guts' of a murder tattled on Fred N.; both ****s ultimately did a little more time & were released, 'on probation').

 

[No it's not]

I like how one of our posters termed the possible individuals finding TS that morning as "variable". That is exactly what happened here IMO. Dr P was used, BS was used, possibly someone else would have been used.

Here is why: If we "assume" MS is the main instigator of this horrendous crime, then he wanted to be sure TS was indeed dead. That's why she was murdered- or "finished"- so brutally with a hammer. That would make it clear to anyone finding her, that she had passed.

This information would have been crucial to MS, who was in CT and therefore relied on anyone's else observations. He sure did not want to recreate for example a "Dippolito" scenario, where the crime scene was staged in an attempt to charge the wife of ordering a hit on her husband. In the end he wanted to control the outcome of the plot. He needed results.

I don't think it was so much the timeframe alone he wanted TS to be found. Not showing up in her office would have eventually triggered someone of her office personal to checking on her, or calling the police for a well being check, even if MS had been out of reach via phone or text. I believe he wanted someone particular to find her making sure she was indeed dead.

Who is better qualified for that than a doctor and surgeon?

First choice, and it looks so "thoughtful" of the husband having a doctor friend dispatched to checking on his wife's well being....and if Dr P was not available due to being with a patient, surgery etc.. then BS would have been the next choice. A mother would most likely not lie to her son. MS could rely on his mother's "observations". I am sure, that if neither one had been available, MS would have asked someone from the office to check on TS.

Sharing all that Delta etc. information with Dr P could have been an additional effort on MS's behalf to throwing off LE and making Dr P look suspicious. One thing MS forgot..Too much randomness of seemingly unimportant information he shared with Dr P is a pattern in itself. Hmm..

I am sure MS researched or knew, that Dr P has no regular surgeries scheduled on Mondays and Wednesdays. Chances were, he would be available for a check on TS on a Monday morning, but only prior to his regular office hours and prior to his first scheduled patient.

That is why MS wanted to be found at a certain time, just to facilitate the first variable player in this plot ( in addition to possibly being able to perhaps schedule some convenient flights for himself and his poor family members back to Florida..)

Cheers, Nin

 

[Eileen730]

I like how one of our posters termed the possible individuals finding TS that morning as "variable". That is exactly what happened here IMO. Dr P was used, BS was used, possibly someone else would have been used.

Here is why: If we "assume" MS is the main instigator of this horrendous crime, then he wanted to be sure TS was indeed dead. That's why she was murdered- or "finished"- so brutally with a hammer. That would make it clear to anyone finding her, that she had passed.

This information would have been crucial to MS, who was in CT and therefore relied on anyone's else observations. He sure did not want to recreate for example a "Dippolito" scenario, where the crime scene was staged in an attempt to charge the wife of ordering a hit on her husband. In the end he wanted to control the outcome of the plot. He needed results.

I don't think it was so much the timeframe alone he wanted TS to be found. Not showing up in her office would have eventually triggered someone of her office personal to checking on her, or calling the police for a well being check, even if MS had been out of reach via phone or text. I believe he wanted someone particular to find her making sure she was indeed dead.

Who is better qualified for that than a doctor and surgeon?

First choice, and it looks so "thoughtful" of the husband having a doctor friend dispatched to checking on his wife's well being....and if Dr P was not available due to being with a patient, surgery etc.. then BS would have been the next choice. A mother would most likely not lie to her son. MS could rely on his mother's "observations". I am sure, that if neither one had been available, MS would have asked someone from the office to check on TS.

Sharing all that Delta etc. information with Dr P could have been an additional effort on MS's behalf to throwing off LE and making Dr P look suspicious. One thing MS forgot..Too much randomness of seemingly unimportant information he shared with Dr P is a pattern in itself. Hmm..

I am sure MS researched or knew, that Dr P has no regular surgeries scheduled on Mondays and Wednesdays. Chances were, he would be available for a check on TS on a Monday morning, but only prior to his regular office hours and prior to his first scheduled patient.

That is why MS wanted to be found at a certain time, just to facilitate the first variable player in this plot ( in addition to possibly being able to perhaps schedule some convenient flights for himself and his poor family members back to Florida..)

Cheers, Nin

But did he not call his mother first? And MP second? MP was closer.

As horrid as u may think he is I don't think he would want his mother to find her.
JMO

 

[Matlacha]

MN Mary,

They were already north of Fort Myers on their way back to Missouri at 12:44 am, only about an hour after the murder, when they did a GPS search for a rest area--so they didn't stay in the house very long, let alone until dawn. I think that was early speculation because of the "shrill" reported by a neighbor. See the timeline here:

http://www.brownbearsw.com/cal/sieve...2015%2F06%2F01

 

[No it's not]

But did he not call his mother first? And MP second? MP was closer.

As horrid as u may think he is I don't think he would want his mother to find her.
JMO

That is the muddy point. Dr P reported MS was going to call "her" mother [TS's], which may be a possible a misunderstanding on the doc's part. Ms was staying with TS's mom in CT that morning. Remember the aired interview with her and AL talking about that morning MS wandering around while talking over the phone, TS's mom following him not understanding what was going on.

Hopefully we will find out more of the sequence of phone calls and events, once that we are privy to additional information being disclosed in the next doc dumps.

-Nin

 

[Eileen730]

That is the muddy point. Dr P reported MS was going to call "her" mother [TS's], which may be a possible a misunderstanding on the doc's part. Ms was staying with TS's mom in CT that morning. Remember the aired interview with her and AL talking about that morning MS wandering around while talking over the phone, TS's mom following him not understanding what was going on.


Hopefully we will find out more of the sequence of phone calls and events, once that we are privy to additional information being disclosed in the next doc dumps.

-Nin

Isnt there the interview with BS that said he called her to go check on T and then called her back and said Dr M was going to go?

I'm getting confused I'm going to have to start a handy dandy note book!
Remember Blues Clues?


and Yes I do remember the interview of her mom saying mark was on the phone in the yard!

 

[No it's not]

Some distances:

Dr P home distance to drive from home to Jarvis Rd app 7 minutes

Dr P office distance to drive to Jarvis Rd app 11.5 minutes

BS home distance to drive from home to Jarvis Rd app 14 minutes

TS office distance to drive to Jarvis Road app 13 minutes


Looking at the distances and approximate times it takes to arrive at Jarvis Road, BS should have been the last choice for being the farthest away. But she wasn't. Therefore the time alone wasn't a factor.

-Nin

 

[Dmacky]

Respectfully snipped by me ~

they were to have that brilliant idea to leave that brand spanking new hammer from Walmart next to TS' body !! (Yeah, that hammer would really throw the police off their trail:great:......!

2.) WHAT I ABSOLUTELY CANNOT FIGURE OUT, & CAN MAKE SENSE IS THIS: Why in the world would those 2 stay in the home so long & WHY WOULD THEY NOT LEAVE WELL BEFORE DAWN ??? I cannot understand why in the world that would happen. People in that area have dogs, would be out at crack of dawn walking their dogs on leashes. It even has me wonder is BS had her times muddled & it was her who fiddled with the alarm early --- no way would the 2 (of the 3 IMO) murderers deliberately stay in the home so close in time to BS' arrival & no way would they want to be leaving the home under light of day - bright Fla. sunrise, remember. Can anyone here make a bit of sense out of that mystery?

BBM ~
Mary, they didn't purchase the hammer at Walmart.
They bought a four-piece lock pick set, men’s water shoes, wet wipes, package of 20-gallon garbage bags, backpack, black bath towels, T-shirts and men’s shoes...any this poor men, who had no money for groceries and both lived in Trailers used a $100.00 bill.

The GPS shows two more local searches before the time of the homicide and then nothing more until 12:44 a.m. Monday, June 29 when the vehicle is headed back toward Missouri.

 

[No it's not]

Isnt there the interview with BS that said he called her to go check on T and then called her back and said Dr M was going to go?

I'm getting confused I'm going to have to start a handy dandy note book!
Remember Blues Clues?


and Yes I do remember the interview of her mom saying mark was on the phone in the yard!

Blues Clues..hahahaha!!! That is too funny! I remember that. Kids would not miss one episode.

Ms did not call BS back, she called him when leaving the subdivision. He then told her, Dr P was on the way.

-Nin

 

[Eileen730]

Id think the first person to call would be Mom!
so he called her.

My question is why did he call Dr M after already calling mom.
Did he start calling friends to see if they heard from her?

 

[FightTheOstrich]

Id think the first person to call would be Mom!
so he called her.

My question is why did he call Dr M after already calling mom.
Did he start calling friends to see if they heard from her?

Based on Dr. P's interview, I'm left with the impression that MS asked him immediately if he could check on TS.

Perhaps MS remembered that BS had been charged with pet sitting and that she had alarm issues. And maybe he wanted to coach her a little before she spoke with LE.

After the reading the interviews for both MP and BS, I can see why MS might prefer MP for the job. Perhaps MS just wanted LE's first impression to come from MP vs. BS.

 

[Eileen730]

Based on Dr. P's interview, I'm left with the impression that MS asked him immediately if he could check on TS.

Perhaps MS remembered that BS had been charged with pet sitting and that she had alarm issues. And maybe he wanted to coach her a little before she spoke with LE.

After the reading the interviews for both MP and BS, I can see why MS might prefer MP for the job. Perhaps MS just wanted LE's first impression to come from MP vs. BS.

The thing is I do not believe he would call his mother is he knew she was lying there dead.
Call someone at the office!
Call the cops!
Not MOM.
But that is JMO

 

[No it's not]

The thing is I do not believe he would call his mother is he knew she was lying there dead.
Call someone at the office!
Call the cops!
Not MOM.
But that is JMO

There are many things I cannot believe people did in this case. One cannot argue with stupidity.

Cheers, Nin

 

[Scout]

The thing is I do not believe he would call his mother is he knew she was lying there dead.
Call someone at the office!
Call the cops!
Not MOM.
But that is JMO

Can't follow your logic. I wouldn't make that assumption about someone I know, let alone a complete stranger.

 

[mikeinmo]

The thing is I do not believe he would call his mother is he knew she was lying there dead.
Call someone at the office!
Call the cops!
Not MOM.
But that is JMO

As sneaky and devious as MS is more and more appearing to me. No basic family morals (maybe except for children) I can see him calling BS just to make everything more murkier as "who in their right mind would call your mother to find a dead spouse."

 

[Eileen730]

There are many things I cannot believe people did in this case. One cannot argue with stupidity.

Cheers, Nin

But.....What if he really did not know she was Dead?



I'm the Devils Advocate here lol.

 

[Eileen730]

As sneaky and devious as MS is more and more appearing to me. No basic family morals (maybe except for children) I can see him calling BS just to make everything more murkier as "who in their right mind would call your mother to find a dead spouse."

What has made him appear more devious to you?
And I don't think he would call mom to go find her.
JMO
I don't understand why he has not been arrested if they have evidence he hired these 2.

 

[No it's not]

In the preliminary report -Bates # 4 and 5- MS states he learned of his wife not showing up at the office. Did he call the office, after he could not reach his wife? Or did the office call him, since Dr S did not show?

There is a possible problem with either scenario. We know according to MSM, that at this morning (around the time TS was found) there were at least 2 employees at TS's office, SH and the girl at the desk:

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/29475659...bonita-springs-doctor-speaks-out#.Vo08LZVIizk

However, if TS was a no show, who would call MS- if that's what happened- , SH or the girl at the desk? I would say it had to be SH. She would be the responsible party after TS.

But..[quoting from above article]

'On Monday, the doctor failed to show. Hoskins knew something was wrong. "The phone rang. The girl in the front office picked it up and said there's crime tape. Her block is taped off, and there's police everywhere," said Hoskins. Hoskins immediately drove to the doctor's home and spoke with a deputy. "He said she's passed," said Hoskins. "I called Mark, and I said I know what's going, but I don't know what's going on. He was hysterical."

"I said where are you. He said I'm on my way home. I said Mark I'm headed back to the office to take care of things." '

SH asks MS "Where are you?", so she did not talk to him previously. She did not call MS, MS did not call her. Also, who placed that call to the office that morning informing them of the yellow tape?

How did MS learn of his wife not showing up for work..?

-Nin

 

[Dmacky]

In the preliminary report -Bates # 4 and 5- MS states he learned of his wife not showing up at the office. Did he call the office, after he could not reach his wife? Or did the office call him, since Dr S did not show?

There is a possible problem with either scenario. We know according to MSM, that at this morning (around the time TS was found) there were at least 2 employees at TS's office, SH and the girl at the desk:

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/29475659...bonita-springs-doctor-speaks-out#.Vo08LZVIizk

However, if TS was a no show, who would call MS- if that's what happened- , SH or the girl at the desk? I would say it had to be SH. She would be the responsible party after TS.

But..[quoting from above article]

'On Monday, the doctor failed to show. Hoskins knew something was wrong. "The phone rang. The girl in the front office picked it up and said there's crime tape. Her block is taped off, and there's police everywhere," said Hoskins. Hoskins immediately drove to the doctor's home and spoke with a deputy. "He said she's passed," said Hoskins. "I called Mark, and I said I know what's going, but I don't know what's going on. He was hysterical."

"I said where are you. He said I'm on my way home. I said Mark I'm headed back to the office to take care of things." '

SH asks MS "Where are you?", so she did not talk to him previously. She did not call MS, MS did not call her. Also, who placed that call to the office that morning informing them of the yellow tape?

How did MS learn of his wife not showing up for work..?

-Nin

BBM ~
Good catch Nin