2016.03.01 Discovery Documents - Batch # 5

[KateB]

Yes! I agree with you and I got that part. I'm trying to understand was CK saying the girls went with the rest of the family to one beach and MS went to another one with - whoever - Or did they all go together? You see what I mean? And when MS was talking about a Michelle, was it Dr MP's wife? Does anyone know?

Everyone except CK went to the beach. You think they went to different beaches? The girls, MS, AW, CWW & who knows if MiP and her husband would be there.
Surely, MP's traumatic experience may have had something to do with her decision to quit law school, if that is true. Her husband may have been her first and only reason to consider it and that would be more believable to me. So much MS twists to fit his need. IDK.

CK: Yeah. And so it’s -» and I could go into what he told me happened with that. But — so anyway, he had to leave. And the girls — they’re all going to go to the beach together. I’m like okay, you know. He - he pulls me aside. He tells me, “ This is Teresa’s good friend. She started law school the very first day Teresa was murdered. Now she wants to quit. And I, you know, I just have to talk to her about this. This is just — you know, she can’t quit.” And he’s just so concerned about Michelle and her schooling.
And I just- I’m like

pg 296/ Bates 30218

CK: So, it still didn’t bother me too much. I go to my hotel room. Because Wayne and his wife want to go to the beach. They asked me to go, and I said, “ No, I’m going to go check into my hotel now. My room should be ready.” And I go ~ and Y m starving. I go and I eat at The Boathouse restaurant, and I eat. And it’s starting to get late at this time, and I’m like, “ God, what time are we supposed to be back?” So, the the — the idea was we were supposed to meet back for dinner -

page 297/Bates 30219

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B717FUtKwdU8UUtUdV80Z0NNOVU/view?usp=sharing

 

[Dmacky]

From the phone pings and the gps (if I'm looking at it right) looks like JR and CWW did at least drive by the beach when here to murder TS. Could they have been hiding evidence ?

Maybe that day that MS went to the beach with the girls he actually met CWW and AW. AW played with the girls while the men compared stories and checked to make sure the hidden black towels and any other evidence was still hidden?

Sounds very plausible, but I do remember CK saying she was wondering where everyone was because it was getting so late. She said she called CWW and he said "See here's the thing, Mark isn't back yet."


Speaking of evidence from the night of the murder, has anyone else ever wondered why they would drive home through 5 different States and NOT throw away any evidence? JR still had the box of gloves and the dang blue jumpsuit on July 13th! Not to mention his "FL. burner phone" in his locker at work...it just doesn't make any sense to me.

Here's where my mind takes me. And it aint pretty :no:
I don't think for a minute CWW would not have insisted they get rid of the evidence IF he did the actual killing. Since he didn't, (hard to type) I think JR's enjoyed the killing and was keeping his little stash of "trophy's" and would have definitely killed again. Not to mention how good the pay was.
I finally got that off my mind

ETA ~ I just read Kate's post, so I see they all did go to the beach. again

 

[KateB]

It does sound like they went separately on closer read, especially with returning separately.

 

[KateB]

Sounds very plausible, but I do remember CK saying she was wondering where everyone was because it was getting so late. She said she called CWW and he said "See here's the thing, Mark isn't back yet."
Speaking of evidence, has anyone else ever wondered why they would drive home through Georgia, Alabama, Tennessee Kentucky and Illinois and NOT throw away any evidence? JR still had the box of gloves and the dang blue jumpsuit on July 13th! Not to mention his "FL. burner phone" in his locker at work...it just doesn't make any sense to me.

Here's where my mind takes me. And it aint pretty :no:
I don't think for a minute CWW would not have insisted they get rid of the evidence IF he did the actual killing. Since he didn't, (hard to type) I think JR's enjoyed the killing and was keeping his little stash of "trophy's" and would have definitely killed again. Not to mention how good the pay was.
I finally got that off my mind

ETA ~ I just read Kate's post, so I see they all did go to the beach. again

I'm talking about July 5th, not June 28th though. I'm confused enough already, though.

http://www.brownbearsw.com/cal/siev...h;NavType=Absolute;Type=Block&Date=2015/07/01

 

[IM4TRUTH]

How could we have overlooked discussing Mark packing a gun in his fancy suit?

Mark had to have a gun at the funeral service because he had a feeling one of the killers might be there.
wink :wink: wink

I find it interesting that CWW specifically pointed out to CK that Mark was packing a gun. It's almost like a soft threat to CK if she was getting suspicious. Sort of like a "you don't want to mess with us tough guys".

That scene like right out of a movie at the house when CK visited, and she and Mark heard noises and he reached for a gun. If he was so afraid the killer would come back to the house, then why take the girls back in so soon, and have a pool party?

Just a thought: with MS running around with the gun in the house, do you think he was going to shoot CK because now she might know too much? Only the two of them were there and he could have said he thought it was an intruder. On a side note, why was the dust from the fingerprints still on the counter for the girls to see?

 

[Russian Blue]

I think you are right on the money on that. I also think that the "asthma attack" sound a lot like me when I am having a full blown panic attack, ie shortness of breath, hyperventilating, coughing, running away from the trigger. To me it's not out of the realm of possibility that he had major panic attack at that moment, at TS's funeral when they were wheeling TS's casket towards him. Reality of what he had done probably caught up with him at that moment

I am on the fence as to whether he faked that attack to get out from under the eyes of LE who were there, or a real panic attack as you say when facsed with reality. But I don't think that if it was a panic attack that he was being remorseful or having feelings of what have I done, but more like, oh $#%*!!! I might get caught this time. Yep the casket probably triggered some real fears, a little different than when someone goes missing, they don't have the body and you are "just" a person of interest.
Maybe and we don't know this, and I only put it out their as an idea, but maybe someone like SMS gave him the eye, the one that says, "I know it was you." That would send me in a panic.

 

[Paulas88]

I am on the fence as to whether he faked that attack to get out from under the eyes of LE who were there, or a real panic attack as you say when facsed with reality. But I don't think that if it was a panic attack that he was being remorseful or having feelings of what have I done, but more like, oh $#%*!!! I might get caught this time. Yep the casket probably triggered some real fears, a little different than when someone goes missing, they don't have the body and you are "just" a person of interest.
Maybe and we don't know this, and I only put it out their as an idea, but maybe someone like SMS gave him the eye, the one that says, "I know it was you." That would send me in a panic.

I think it was fake! I mean, something must have spooked MS/CWW to make MS dash to the office to trash office equipment...

 

[Dmacky]

I'm talking about July 5th, not June 28th though. I'm confused enough already, though.

http://www.brownbearsw.com/cal/siev...h;NavType=Absolute;Type=Block&Date=2015/07/01

I was talking about July 5th too at first LOL. I definitely should have separated my paragraphs because when Bobby mentioned evidence in her post (black towels) I went from July 5th and then straight back to the June 28th. SMH
No wonder your confused, I'm confused myself by my own post! Sorry about that Kate :blush:

 

[Curious Me]

Just a thought: with MS running around with the gun in the house, do you think he was going to shoot CK because now she might know too much? Only the two of them were there and he could have said he thought it was an intruder. On a side note, why was the dust from the fingerprints still on the counter for the girls to see?

Disgusting, the girls went back to the house way too soon, IMO.

CK was doing her best to be the old friend from out of town there to comfort him, but Mark was getting nervous she was so sharp at the way she put things together. On the phone when she mentioned the alarm system, Mark got quiet and cut off the conversation. He attempted to explain the alarm with Teresa's fake to-do list when CK visited. He was scrabbling.

I don't think he was worried enough about CK to shoot her, but waving a gun would be a soft threatening in case she had ideas to raise her concerns to LE.

MOO, he had her there at the house to soothe her suspicions, try to act more grieving with the smoothie, perfect his act, and maybe pick her brain because she did think like LE (the pantry) and he needed to perfect his act and plug up the gaps in his story fast.

 

[RagingClue]

BBM :giggle: I didn't think of that. Of course, Mark will try to find a Joyce. Just don't expect him to work hard at doing any sewing or art work.

Here's to hoping he will get his daily intimacy needs met.

 

[DaleTray]

My read on things is that MS thinks, like El Chapo & those 2 guys in upstate NY prison, MS with his good looks, charm & big hands is going to woo some Joyce The Sewing Teacher & Milt The Guard Who Smuggles Tools To Prisoners Inside Ground Chuck, & MS will be breakin' out of whatever prison they put him very, very soon.

I didn't find it very sweet of MS to 'take care of his girls', & in the site where their mommy had just been murdered like that, while MS was waiting for the cuffs to go on his wrists. As to MS in relation to those little girls, it reminds me of that saying, 'I don't have relationships - I take hostages!'.

I have been asking myself "why " to so so many questions since I started on WS and I thought at the very onset those large hands have made life easy for MS and been the downfall for others. Some of my very first thoughts was "how are these 2 even compatible" " and what keeps them together". Some lazy nanny's have it easy I guess.....while I have to put in my 50 hrs weekly (as I look sadly down to the ground) Come on people, appreciate the sarcasm

 

[Curious Me]

I need to add that I noticed Mark always seemed to interact with CK one on one, in the car and at the house, but avoided CK more whenever CWW and he were together. He totally ignored her, was it after the funeral service, and wouldn't even make eye contact at times. I think he sensed CK would be able to pick up on things easier when she saw Mark and CWW together.

:cow:

 

[FelicityLemon]

Timeline doesn't fit with MS. And we need to stop here theorizing without links to support our theories.

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/crim...ath-of-dr-teresa-sievers--2345-339128031.html

bb and u by me

Agreed. I'm so sorry, what I posted is not MY theory, and has been discussed in this case before with the appropriate links and I neglected to do so this time. What I posted comes directly from GB via early interviews and from other witnesses in LE interviews (that we have) stated given the timeline that evening. I was trying to be polite rather than post that it was flat out wrong to connect RB's disappearance/murder with whether or not MS an affair with any married woman. The two items are not connected - that was my point.

As for CK saying that CWW brought up the Bolin Family at the memorial gathering for TS, in my opinion, that could be construed as a vague threat (maybe not toward CK herself, I don't know) "people who displease us meet with misfortune." We won't know unless we learn more about what he said at that time to CK. I'm kind of surprised it wasn't explored at that opportunity I always think about that PSA "the more you know"

____________________________________
Note: I'm not the only one who posts in "Reply With Quote" and the other poster's quote doesn't show up so it looks like we're posting out of the blue!

 

[jtate0702]

Some things that have puzzled me:

Why JRR involvement by CWW? Was it because CWW was older, fat and not fit? Did CWW want to make JRR the fall guy?

Why the hammer which has more chance of DNA transfer than a gun? Wouldn't CWW have been able to act alone if the weapon of choice was a gun?

IMO the hammer was more personal as it involved direct physical contact. The brutality of a hammer and the extent of injuries inflicted depicts a very dangerous person IMO. So was it JRR? No conscience?

That has been bugging me too. I think that CWW involved JRR for the simple fact that he did not have the cajones to do it himself. CWW spent a lot of time trying to cultivate a hard core image. Remember that woman who he told people that he killed in Missouri, and that he killed her with his bare hands until "the life went out of her eyes"? MSM jumped all over that when it came out, and lo and behold they tracked her down, still alive and well and having no clue CWW was telling people she was dead. I think he idolized that violent, criminal lifestyle and tried desperately to emulate it. In reality, he was a coward and a pathological liar. I think MS and CWW planned the murder, and CWW brought in JRR to do the dirty work.

I think JRR chose a hammer for the murder because he is a sick, twisted, sadistic animal. I think he is too stupid to have thought of DNA transfer or any of that. He wanted the hammer because it was "his calling card", after all he is Jimmy the Hammer. He probably wanted to make sure he secured his future bragging rights, as we know how much he liked to talk. I think JRR is a violent psychopath. No remorse, no feelings of guilt or empathy. Whatever makes us human is broken in him.

Ughh.. they all make me sick.

 

[jtate0702]

I am on the fence as to whether he faked that attack to get out from under the eyes of LE who were there, or a real panic attack as you say when facsed with reality. But I don't think that if it was a panic attack that he was being remorseful or having feelings of what have I done, but more like, oh $#%*!!! I might get caught this time. Yep the casket probably triggered some real fears, a little different than when someone goes missing, they don't have the body and you are "just" a person of interest.
Maybe and we don't know this, and I only put it out their as an idea, but maybe someone like SMS gave him the eye, the one that says, "I know it was you." That would send me in a panic.

Oh I agree. If it was a panic attack, and not just a fake asthma attack, I don't think it was from remorse. More like the reality of TS laying there is the casket after they had murdered her, in a room with her family, friends, and LEO'S surrounding him. Plus his co-conspirator just a few rows away. If he was afraid or panicked about anything, I think it was fear of getting caught and fear for his own sorry hide.

 

[Matlacha]

Some things that have puzzled me:

Why JRR involvement by CWW? Was it because CWW was older, fat and not fit? Did CWW want to make JRR the fall guy?

Why the hammer which has more chance of DNA transfer than a gun? Wouldn't CWW have been able to act alone if the weapon of choice was a gun?

IMO the hammer was more personal as it involved direct physical contact. The brutality of a hammer and the extent of injuries inflicted depicts a very dangerous person IMO. So was it JRR? No conscience?

Several advantages to using a hammer: (1) Convicted felons are barred from contact with firearms. No point risking jail for getting into an accident or traffic stop and being found with a gun. No law against carrying a hammer, even for ex-cons. (2) Guns make noise, possibly enough to attract attention even with a suppressor. Noise eliminates the ability to cleanup, etc., after the murder, and increases the chances of getting caught--one glimpse of the getaway car by a neighbor could lead to arrest. (3) At close range, there is plenty of DNA transfer with a firearm. At longer range, even across a room, chances of a one-shot stop decline markedly, increasing the noise problem--i.e, one shot might be dismissed as a backfire or some other random noise, but maybe not two, and certainly not 17 (sounds crazy, but round counts sometimes go higher than that in police shootings, even when the victim isn't shooting back).

 

[Matlacha]

Oh I agree. If it was a panic attack, and not just a fake asthma attack, I don't think it was from remorse. More like the reality of TS laying there is the casket after they had murdered her, in a room with her family, friends, and LEO'S surrounding him. Plus his co-conspirator just a few rows away. If he was afraid or panicked about anything, I think it was fear of getting caught and fear for his own sorry hide.

Could have been the stern eye of Sheriff Scott one (?) row back. Wonder if he was in uniform? Bet they didn't expect that.

 

[irishchook]

I've been busy with visitors from overseas and reading/listening to CK's interview.
In advance, I apologize if this has already been stated.
IMO, I feel CK is the "bombshell" (a la NG) to this investigation.
I would still like to see her FB posts that she so eagerly wanted to show the detective.


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[irishchook]

I would love to see MiP's interview to see if this has any truth to it. He was sunburnt so I believe he went to the beach but with whom? Jmo

I thought he met up with MiP's wife, Michelle. MS was so concerned that she would give-up going to law school.

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[Curious Me]

I feel that I overlooked beginning information on the relationships between TS, MS, MiP, and MP.

Was MiP that close to Mark that she would want to discuss with him, at such a time, about quitting law school? Was there anything behind Mark choosing to have MP find the body? Why did the detective in the BS interview question BS about the couple?