4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #77

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Assuming BK went to the house to perpetrate a killing and he went intentionally with his knife, plus had been scoping the area and was very familiar with local streets and roads from both his night running and driving around, it seems likely to me he would have decided on a place to hide / discard the knife?

That place would have to be somewhere he immediately drove to surely? And somewhere he was familiar with. So where could it be? I haven't heard much speculation on this subject. Has there been much searching for the knife?

I agree; it seems like something he must have considered, possibly even planned or practiced.
We know his cell phone pinged several times in the area of the house before the murder. Could the prosecution search to see if it had also been in the vicinity of the circuitous route he took home after the murders? As if he were looking for a prime dumping ground? If they had that information, a comparison of routes in the same direction might have a particular point in common and provide a hint of where he might have hidden his dirty gear. I dunno.

 

[Boxer]

The photo you see is where Bryan is isolated in one of four isolation cells. This is not where all the other inmates are. The other inmates are in "General Population" and have larger cells with roommates and a larger common room where they eat, play games, and watch TV together.

Bryan is 6 feet tall and weighs 185 pounds - unless he has gained or lost weight - so the tiny isolation cell, standard sized cot and thin bedding, and small metal stools don't do him any favors.

The section you can see is the maximum security segregation section. That small area with the table is just for the individual who is housed in one of these 4 segregation cells. So Bryan can come out of his cell to use the phone on the wall and to take a shower. The phone has a headset for privacy.

It would be nice if they let him eat meals at the table but he eats in his cell. It would also be nice if he could come out and watch the TV on the wall but he actually has a basic cable TV positioned just outside the bars of his cell where a guard controls the channels.

He is not free to just come and go as he pleases from his tiny cell to his tiny common room, unlike the inmates in General Population who have more freedom in leaving their cells to use their common room.

The only time Bryan is allowed to see other inmates is on Sunday for religious service. He can pick where he wants to sit but can't talk to anyone. He also has the option of attending Bible study on Wednesday evenings.
He has been attending Mass on Sundays.

Kohberger also has access to a tablet that has older movies that he can watch if he pays five cents per minute and he can also pay to use the tablets to make video calls or access email.

Kohberger has his choice of library or outside time. Sometimes getting to do both for an hour at a time.
The jail's library consists of reading books, a Pull up Bar, a Dip Bar, and a complete set of Idaho Code books and Federal Code books for legal research.

Kohberger also reportedly has access to mental health services, but has yet to make any requests to meet with a professional.

Medical Staff come into the jail twice a week for inmate sick call and they handle the majority of the cases. Those cases that require a specialists such as Dental, Eye Exams, Lab Work, X-ray’s or any other procedure that cannot be done in the facility are brought to a local Provider in the area.

MSN

Details of Bryan Kohberger's jail life emerge

The man accused of murdering four University of Idaho students has been attending Mass on Sundays and has the option of attending Bible study on Wednesdays.

www.newsweek.com

Detention

Latah County is located in the northern Idaho panhandle; to the immediate west lies Whitman County, Washington. These counties are referred to as The Palouse, which produces a large share of the wheat, lentils, peas, oats and barley in the United States. The Palouse is home to two major...

latahcountyid.gov

6x8 is isolation cell size. All cells used to be this size.

 

[insearchoflight]

I remember he went to a drive through but didn’t purchase anything. The morning after murder. Also noted there was a river nearby that area. I always wondered if he went through drive through as an alibi but either threw weapon out the window or quickly parked and ran to river to throw. It’s so hard to find anything in the media now with so much out there. He drove quite a bit after murder. So much area.

Thanks for this info.

I speculate that BK is obsessive and paranoid, JMO and not my place to 'armchair diagnose' but I think we've had some indications of this. It seems to me that if he premeditated a serious crime using this knife, he would have thoroughly contemplated how to dispose of it.

Personally speaking if I'd done what he had (unimaginable), I wouldn't be able to relax until the knife was smelted and no particle of it remained. If that possibility wasn't available, I think I'd chemically clean it, dip it in acid, make sure no distinguishing features or unique dents remained, catapult it or launch it somehow, maybe even using a drone, far as possible into some form of deep water body (preferably one without a tide). So. If I can think of all that from my perfectly average brain, imagine what he's gone and done with it :O

Here’s more info to back this up.

Kohberger was allegedly in Clarkston hours after students were killed

The man accused of slaughtering four University of Idaho students was in Clarkston on the day of the murders, according to the affidavit released Thursday.

www.lmtribune.com

“An employee at the coffee stand said the car was spotted in the drive-through, but the driver did not stop and order anything.”

Attached is google maps of the coffee stand drive through. Note the Snake River very close by.

 

[10ofRods]

Isn't it 180 units on the quarter system?

15 + 15 + 15 = 45
45 * 4 = 180

And 120 on the semester system?

15 + 15 = 30
30 * 4 = 120

In my experience (and I have studied and taught under each), both systems expect students to average 15 units per term.

Unless something changed radically in the past few years, among UC schools, Berkeley and UCLA are by far the most competitive (which isn't to say necessarily "best" for everyone). Irvine, Davis, San Diego, etc., are still prestigious but a tier below. As an Ivy League school, Penn would rank ahead of all but Berkeley and UCLA.

All of the above, however, may vary depending on one's major.

Yeah, you're right. Thanks for the math. But it's the same degree, of course.

Now that I'm thinking about it, the expectation was 15 units per term for me too (quarter system). 45 is the number I should remember. I work at a semester unit place though.

I was speaking only of criminology. Harvard is unusual in even having a program. Many Ivy League schools do not. Irvine is considered top tier due to the technology and their interest in brain scans, their professors who have background in bio-psychology, etc. I would put it above Berkeley, but that's just my opinion. Irvine is the place where some of the earliest research on genes and antisocial/sociopathic behavior was done.

Just for the record, UCLA doesn't have a criminology program, per se. It has criminal justice. There's a long story behind how criminology even got started as a separate discipline from psychology or sociology (both of which have similar offerings). As at my own alma mater, UCLA directs a potential criminology student to consider programs within the law school.

There are a bunch of different sites that rate these programs. I need to work on my basic math, though.

Most of what I typed is not opinion, but no links at this point, so IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

DBM. Duplicate.

 

[10ofRods]

Wow thanks for all this info.

I appreciate the crimes are horrific and beyond comprehension but this manner of detention is so brutal. It's hard to imagine that someone wouldn't want to speak to a mental health professional or take spiritual advice in the circumstances too. I can't imagine how anyone survives it.

One explanation is paranoia. Paranoid people don't seek mental health care (or other care) because, well, they're paranoid.

It's really challenging to work with them, study them, etc. I don't see BK as the type of person who thinks someone else is a source of "care" for him.

Another reason would be narcissism (DSM-5 casebook has what is considered a classic example of an NPD patient who was basically forced into treatment - he refuses each individual therapists because they aren't as smart/handsome/interesting as he is).

IMO. Anyway, lots of reasons why inmates, in particular, won't speak to therapists/counselors. It's a jail. Many people in jail believe the jailers are out to get them or are spying on them. Most communication inside a jail is in fact videotaped. I would not be at all surprised if counseling sessions are taped and listened to. Have no clue about this particular jail, of course.

 

[jellybeanz]

This guy is so deserving of the justice that is coming to him.

 

[Cool Cats]

Wow thanks for all this info.

I appreciate the crimes are horrific and beyond comprehension but this manner of detention is so brutal. It's hard to imagine that someone wouldn't want to speak to a mental health professional or take spiritual advice in the circumstances too. I can't imagine how anyone survives it.

I don't understand why he is in literal solitary confinement. Even the 4 Wagners who were arrested and jailed for 8 murders in Ohio were allowed roommates and allowed to be with the general population.

BK is innocent until proven guilty.

There must be reasons we don't know about for him to be kept in solitary confinement. I am surprised his lawyer doesn't do anything about it.

Opinion only, but I think if BK's attorney thought he was even remotely innocent she wouldn't make him wait 6 months for his preliminary hearing.

On the other hand, maybe she feels strongly that she can gather enough evidence and witnesses to show his charges should be dropped.

His arrest was based on car and phone evidence, not DNA. I want to see if they have a smoking gun.

 

[katydid23]

I'm inclined to think the killer did watch the house from the parking lot above/behind, the road beside, from the woods and possibly from close to the house in their back yard. Or even from more secluded areas across the street. It's possible others watched as well, especially if the blinds were frequently left open. The woods behind the house might have given the illusion of privacy to those inside, but IMHO it was only an illusion. I've seen the term "fish bowl" used on here and, sadly, that seems to be an accurate description.

Another thing that stands out to me is that I don't remember seeing binoculars, etc found on search warrants or receipts. I'll look again, but if he didn't use them, he must have had a good enough view that they weren't necessary. Edited to add: he could have used binoculars, etc even if they weren't listed in the search warrants.

My son showed me how to use my cell phone camera as a binocular. You look through the lens as if taking a video and then ZOOM IN and it makes the image much bigger so you can see it magnified.

 

[katydid23]

Hey @jepop, how do the tire marks in front of the house fit in this scenario?

I've spent (too much) time trying to figure out where he may have parked compared to where he left the tire marks.

View attachment 415289

View attachment 415290

The video below shows LE measuring the marks and gives a good idea of the location.

Idaho university murders: Investigators seen measuring tire marks at house where 4 students were killed

Idaho investigators were seen measuring tire marks outside of the Moscow, Idaho, home where four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death.

www.foxnews.com

Do we know for sure that they are measuring the killers tires? Or were they taking measurements just in case?

 

[katydid23]

Yes. But the time line gives little to no room for surprises, or unplanned or unexpected actions or reactions. Things had to have gone almost perfectly. I'm not sure what the odds of that happening are, but it's part of the reason I think the time line is too tight and would do better if it had a little wiggle room. But it does make me believe that he knew the house, and at the very least knew how to get from point A to point B (and to point C unless he followed or watched Xana or Ethan go to their room). Like I said, I can see it as do-able but perhaps not practical. And I don't think that would detract from the evidence or the presentation of it. After all I don't think we're supposed to believe the killer had super powers - better to think of him as a man: a man who made human mistakes (assuming that he did -- and I am assuming he did).

Edited to add: I'm honestly not trying to be difficult or obtuse, and I do understand what you're saying.

But the thing is, he didnt have to leave @ 4:20. In other words, if there were surprises that slowed him down, he had plenty of time to deal with them. If so, he would have left @ 4:28 instead.

So if he was told by someone he only had 17 minutes to pul this off, because at that time someone was coming in to check the property, he probably would say forget it. Not enough time.

But he could take as long as he needed and apparently that was all he needed. JMO

 

[maconrich]

My son showed me how to use my cell phone camera as a binocular. You look through the lens as if taking a video and then ZOOM IN and it makes the image much bigger so you can see it magnified.

Wow - that's convenient (for a lot of reasons including good ones). Thank you for letting me know!

 

[maconrich]

But the thing is, he didnt have to leave @ 4:20. In other words, if there were surprises that slowed him down, he had plenty of time to deal with them. If so, he would have left @ 4:28 instead.

So if he was told by someone he only had 17 minutes to pul this off, because at that time someone was coming in to check the property, he probably would say forget it. Not enough time.

But he could take as long as he needed and apparently that was all he needed. JMO

He didn't have to leave at 4:20, but the PCA says that at 4:20 a camera caught suspect vehicle leaving area of King Rd. So if he stayed longer, that wasn't him they caught on camera.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

He didn't have to leave at 4:20, but the PCA says that at 4:20 a camera caught suspect vehicle leaving area of King Rd. So if he stayed longer, that wasn't him they caught on camera.

If he stayed longer, he would have been caught on camera later (assuming it's him). I think OP's point is just that he wasn't under any specific time pressure. MOO

 

[katydid23]

The pics and video are great! Thank you ♥

Edited to add: running up the hill carrying that big knife indicates a mental attitude that seems not to include fear or caution.

In the few videos I have seen of crazed killers with knives, that is how they seemed---No fear, no caution.

There was a video of a case of a crazy terrorist guy in Belgium, and he was running around stabbing random people. And it was just happening so fast---a quick charge at the victim, 2 or 3 quick stabs, and he was off to the next. He stabbed about 3 or 4 people in less than a few minutes. I don't think they all died but it was still serious injuries.

 

[katydid23]

He didn't have to leave at 4:20, but the PCA says that at 4:20 a camera caught suspect vehicle leaving area of King Rd. So if he stayed longer, that wasn't him they caught on camera.

OK< but that wasn't my point. My point was that he apparently only needed about 17 minutes to finish the brutal crime spree.

You said the timeline had no wriggle room---but that is not true because the timeline was OPEN ENDED. If there was a glitch he would have the time needed to deal with it. There was no absolute time limit.

 

[Nova]

Yeah, you're right. Thanks for the math. But it's the same degree, of course.

Now that I'm thinking about it, the expectation was 15 units per term for me too (quarter system). 45 is the number I should remember. I work at a semester unit place though.

I was speaking only of criminology. Harvard is unusual in even having a program. Many Ivy League schools do not. Irvine is considered top tier due to the technology and their interest in brain scans, their professors who have background in bio-psychology, etc. I would put it above Berkeley, but that's just my opinion. Irvine is the place where some of the earliest research on genes and antisocial/sociopathic behavior was done.

Just for the record, UCLA doesn't have a criminology program, per se. It has criminal justice. There's a long story behind how criminology even got started as a separate discipline from psychology or sociology (both of which have similar offerings). As at my own alma mater, UCLA directs a potential criminology student to consider programs within the law school.

There are a bunch of different sites that rate these programs. I need to work on my basic math, though.

Most of what I typed is not opinion, but no links at this point, so IMO.

Oh, I see. I missed that you were just comparing Criminology programs. Of course, that gives us a different list!

Your opinion is authority enough for me, Rod...

 

[katydid23]

I believe BK had enough time even if he’d never been in the house and even if it was very dark. I think the “something” that is throwing people off is BK’s alleged comment “has there been any other arrests”. That comment is enough to cast doubt which is why I think he said it (if he did).

I think he said it because he was worried his Dad might have been arrested since they drove back home together, etc. [if he said it]

 

[maconrich]

In the few videos I have seen of crazed killers with knives, that is how they seemed---No fear, no caution.

There was a video of a case of a crazy terrorist guy in Belgium, and he was running around stabbing random people. And it was just happening so fast---a quick charge at the victim, 2 or 3 quick stabs, and he was off to the next. He stabbed about 3 or 4 people in less than a few minutes. I don't think they all died but it was still serious injuries.

Sorry for not getting what you meant - my brain is beyond blurry tonight. So yes, I do agree that he didn't seem to under a time limit and could have stayed longer if he'd opted to. I do wonder if he'd set some sort of time for himself. Possibly not, but it sure doesn't seem like he lingered. No staging of victims that we know of and doesn't seem like he even took much time to take in what he'd done. He seemed focused on quick kills and then leaving. Or maybe not. Just my thoughts based on the little we know.
Edited because I skipped the message: I guess that's the mindset someone might need in order to do such horrific things...

 

[al66pine]

Plea Deal Like BTK, Dennis Rader???

....3 - Here's a question: IF there is a plea deal, couldn't part of that deal be that BK (again assuming it's him) has to confess; give an accounting of the crime? Like BTK did? ... All JMOs.

snipped for focus @russoca
Not sure if BTK was party to a plea deal, per sources below.
Three possible ways a crim def't may benefit thru a plea agreement: charge bargaining; count bargaining; sentence bargaining.* AFAIK, BTK received none of these.

Rader was charged w 10 counts of murder 1; on scheduled trial day, he changed plea to guilty to all 10. He was sentenced to 10 consecutive life sentences, with a minimum of 175 years. Kansas had no death penalty at the time of the murders. **

After his arrest and before scheduled trial, Rader gave extensive info to LE, specifically: ".... the torture and murder of 10 people,... His recorded confession, which lasted more than 30 hours, filled 17 DVDs." ***

Before sentencing, Rader addressed the court (allocution) In a rambling half-hour statement and spoke for 30 min. "He quoted the Bible and thanked his lawyers, jailers, friends and family, before paying tribute to the law enforcement officials who caught him. Rader also took full responsibility for his actions..." ****

These sources make no reference to a plea agreement. If, as part of a plea agreement, Rader received a reduced sentence, imo it may have been a technical point, as his minimum term is 175 yrs. He won't leave prison alive.

Is a plea agreement even a possibility for BK? IDK.
_____________________________________________
* "In charge bargaining, defendants plead guilty to a less serious crime than the original charge that was filed against them. In count bargaining, they plead guilty to a subset of multiple original charges. In sentence bargaining, they plead guilty agreeing in advance what sentence will be given; however, this sentence can still be denied by the judge. In fact bargaining, defendants plead guilty but the prosecutor agrees to stipulate (i.e., to affirm or concede) certain facts that will affect how the defendant is punished under the sentencing guidelines."
Plea bargain - Wikipedia

** Dennis Rader - Wikipedia

*** Footnote 70 of wiki article links to a Wayback Machine story: "Hansen, Mark (April 21, 2006). "How the Cops Caught BTK". ABA Journal. American Bar Association. Archived from the original on January 21, 2015. Retrieved January 21, 2015."

**** Washington Post article, Aug. 19, 2005

Rader Gets 175 Years For BTK Slayings

After evading justice for more than 31 years, Dennis Rader, a serial killer who called himself BTK -- for "bind, torture, kill" -- was sentenced to 10 consecutive life terms in a court in Wichita, Kan.

web.archive.org