4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #78

[ChatteringBirds]

This tragedy seems to be breaking news:

Police said they responded to King Road for a report of an unconscious person. When officers arrived, they “discovered four individuals who were deceased...”

4 Idaho college students killed in 'targeted attack,' no suspects in custody

Four University of Idaho students were found dead on Sunday, officials said.

abcnews.go.com

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Media Thread/No Discussion

Probable Cause Affidavit

Press photo album (compilation courtesy of WS member cujenn81)

Moscow ID Police Department Facebook page

City of Moscow re King Road Homicide

Detectives are looking to develop context for the events and people involved in the four murders at 1122 King Rd in Moscow, Idaho. Anyone who observed notable behavior, has video surveillance, or can provide relevant information about these murders:

• Telephone: 208-883-7180
• Email: tipline@ci.moscow.id.us
• Digital Media: fbi.gov/moscowidaho

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN REMINDER:

It is okay for members to discuss Visual Snow Syndrome because it was referenced by BK himself in his social media. Also, iirc, a BK family member had referred to him having or possibly having OCD. Those two conditions may be discussed because they are sourced to the accused himself and to his family members.

What members can not discuss are other random mental health conditions beyond those specified above. None of us is in a position to diagnose the mental health of a person we have never met. Introducing various and sundry, potential diagnoses only serves to derail the thread with opinions, debate, unrelated personal anecdotes, etc that may end up not being remotely related to this case.

Thank you.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

To clarify ...

While it is true that members do not need to provide a link every single time to something that is common knowledge, IF a member requests a link, it is WS policy and common courtesy to provide one.

ETA: Some posts have been removed due to bickering. We are always fortunate to have Verified members, and NOBODY wants to be responsible for driving a verified member away from Websleuths. If you disagree with a Verified member, do so politely or not at all or there will be a loss of posting privileges.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This post lands at random.

DM is a victim in this matter and a witness. Questioning her credibility or potential testimony is not victim friendly.

Could we please move on from speculation that DM perhaps did not really see what she saw.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Speculation must be based on some known fact. Posts about a confidential informant are not based on known fact and it is at times being stated as fact.

Many posts have been removed. Please move on from that discussion.

 

[DeDee]

Many years ago, I was left with PTSD after narrowly escaping a long-term marriage to a male with a very dangerous personality. He finally died last month so there's no valid reason for me to live in fear. I must learn to get him out of my mind. The flashbacks come unprovoked. Panic attacks can begin at any given time. I suffer from severe insomnia because I live in a state of hypervigilance.

The survivors no doubt have been severely traumatized. Should reliving those frightening moments prevent a survivor from testifying? I had to face my husband during court hearings for the brutal two year battle in order to obtain a divorce. Was it easy? No, it was terrorizing. However, the events that caused the trauma surface every day anyway.

Will testifying in court in front of the defendant be highly traumatizing? There's not a doubt in my mind that the very thought of being involved in the legal proceedings instills incredible pain and unrelenting fear for an empath.

There are three human responses to danger accompanied with intense fear from things said, seen or heard. They are: fight, flight or freeze. As we read with DM in the PCA, she was frozen. I would fight testifying in ID with all of my might and every cent my family could afford. Placing her in a jail cell for refusal, may mean she'll never adequately recover. How could this happen to her based on claims of a hired PI?

JMHOO

 

[10ofRods]

Or maybe he only planned to kill 2 people but killed 4 because another person was in bed with them.

I do not think he expected to even see Ethan there and he had no idea the girls would fall asleep together.

Mystery

Just to change the subject, let's discuss your interesting POV a bit. SPECULATION AHEAD.

So, a man enters a home where, technically, only women reside. He does so in the dead of night, in the middle of the night, on a Saturday night, knowing that students are more vulnerable. Women are more vulnerable.

What *did* he plan to do? I've been reluctant to speculate, but over the months, you and others have really brought me around to considering the limited possibilities.

1. He intended to kill everyone he could. (This was my initial hypothesis, based on mass murderer data). It then becomes an issue of Why that particular house?
2. He intended to rape someone and not kill anyone.
3. He intended to hot prowl the house and not kill anyone.
4. He intended to kill (and rape? or substitute killing for rape?) just one person (a woman). I do not believe he was there to kill Ethan.
5. He intended to kill just one person but also, if an apparent lover was there, also that person ("intention" is broadly construed here - this is a man who entered illegally into the home of sleeping people, with a KA-Bar knife in hand; I believe he had practiced his moves; it's easy for me to think he had intent to murder).
6. He intended to kill or harm 2 people (there's enough in the existing MSM reporting to make that a possibility) and each of those people was with someone else that night.

(I realize that some here are waiting to hear definitively that the killer was male - I believe the killer was male). I"m not interested, myself, in speculation that this crime was committed by some random woman (who is not a housemate, but if others want to go there, it's still speculation).

Are there other possibilities I've overlooked? Male serial killer (who so far hasn't had his crimes linked up?)

It would be the first time in criminal history that some person (BK) had his DNA on an element in the crime scene (the death bed) and it turned out to be a random serial killer. I can't buy that. Said serial killer would have had to know BK and get his DNA on the use point of the sheath, somehow. Without leaving their own. Said serial killer still has to wield the knife and get out of the house rapidly. I believe DM saw someone. That person was male, about 5'10" - 6' tall, lean, prominent brows. Size X foot (known to LE - but must surely match the size range of BK, or else that would be exonerating at the get-go).

That's my speculation. And I think speculation is all we can do right now and I welcome it. I like understanding how others think about these matters.

IMO.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

<modsnip - quoted post discussing a non-approved source was removed>

<modsnip> I saw the warrants' scopes and dates, and I couldn't overlook that mountain of information. Two AGs added today tells me there might be a few more twists than just some misogynistic fanboy gone into a homicidal frenzy. JMO ICBW.

 

[10ofRods]

Many years ago, I was left with PTSD after narrowly escaping a long-term marriage to a male with a very dangerous personality. He finally died last month so there's no valid reason for me to live in fear. I must learn to get him out of my mind. The flashbacks come unprovoked. Panic attacks can begin at any given time. I suffer from severe insomnia because I live in a state of hypervigilance.

The survivors no doubt have been severely traumatized. Should reliving those frightening moments prevent a survivor from testifying? I had to face my husband during court hearings for the brutal two year battle in order to obtain a divorce. Was it easy? No, it was terrorizing. However, the events that caused the trauma surface every day anyway.

Will testifying in court in front of the defendant be highly traumatizing? There's not a doubt in my mind that the very thought of being involved in the legal proceedings instills incredible pain and unrelenting fear for an empath.

There are three human responses to danger accompanied with intense fear from things said, seen or heard. They are: fight, flight or freeze. As we read with DM in the PCA, she was frozen. I would fight testifying in ID with all of my might and every cent my family could afford. Placing her in a jail cell for refusal, may mean she'll never adequately recover. How could this happen to her based on claims of a hired PI?

JMHOO

Ah, I'm so sorry to hear this. My PTSD is also related to a marriage with a male with a dangerous personality - but maybe not so very dangerous as yours (long story). I have no valid reason to live in fear, but yes, it does come back to me. My ex is now "out of my mind," but some of my reactions to similar relationships with other family members are influenced by that experience (used to be profound depression and passivity; now it's irritation - and on rare occasions, paranoia).

I score really high on MMPI on hypervigilance (although lower than 30 years ago). I agree that the survivors from 1122 King are severely traumatized. I cannot even imagine. But i can imagine trauma. Flashbacks do come unprovoked for me, as well (certain cases here, I have to avoid). I'm so sorry about your divorce (mine was easier) - but it does give you empathy and understanding for what DM and BF experience (which I am finding to be lacking on online forums, sheesh, some people are cruel or at least hardened).

I don't think it's the right time for BF to be called forward, personally, so I await the courts' decisions. The claims of the PI should not be enough. I don't have any sense of the judge in this case.

Let's also keep in mind that the defendant in this case (BK) does have the ability to influence events, if he wishes. He can steer his defense in a different direction (than calling up the survivors at this point in time). There are other things he could do, as well. To mitigate what has already happened.

IMO.

Except BK drove past the house multiple times that night, in front of where Ethan parked his vehicle.

BK had to have seen how many vehicles were parked there. If he'd done any surveillance or stalking, he'd have known whos car was whos. Hard to believe that Ethan being there was a surprise for BK or something he hadn't prepared for.

There could have been two cars he was not familiar with, IMO.

It's not like he was over there every day. As far as we know, he was there 11-12 times (personally, I think it was more, but he also went on foot and parked elsewhere and when he was in Moscow, he was likely perusing more than one place).

Further, just because a college student's car is at their house, doesn't mean they are there. The fact that he could stand in that one hilly area and look directly into MM's room is chilling. He would not have known about KG's new car, IMO. Unless he was also stalking them on social media (and even then, it's a maybe, IIRC).

I find it easy to believe that he was unprepared for Ethan to be there, personally.

IMO.

 

[SpiderFalcon]

If anyone knows, WHEN, other than right after he was arrested, and his PD stated that ,BK said he looked forward to being exonerated, WHEN has he proclaimed his innocence? Said he didn't do it?

 

[MassGuy]

If anyone knows, WHEN, other than right after he was arrested, and his PD stated that ,BK said he looked forward to being exonerated, WHEN has he proclaimed his innocence? Said he didn't do it?

I found this. Public Defender Says Idaho Murder Suspect Believes He'll Be Exonerated: 'This Is Not Him'

Narrator: “But he wasn’t.”

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

If anyone knows, WHEN, other than right after he was arrested, and his PD stated that ,BK said he looked forward to being exonerated, WHEN has he proclaimed his innocence? Said he didn't do it?

He was arrested 12/30. Gag order was issued 1/3. So I think what he said to his PD about being exonerated right after his arrest is all we have so far.

Idaho judge issues nondissemination order in U of I students' murder case

The nondissemination order applies to investigators, law enforcement personnel, and agents of the prosecuting, or defense attorneys.

www.king5.com

 

[I'm Nobody]

Two AGs added today tells me there might be a few more twists than just some misogynistic fanboy gone into a homicidal frenzy. JMO ICBW. snipped for focus

IMO It's becoming the dream team, now including both a victim rights organization former Board Member & an Adjunct Law Professor. Both areas helpful in this case, one in the teaching/studying of criminal law and the other familiar with victims rights.

Ingrid Batey, Lead Deputy Attorney General - Special Prosecutions
University of Idaho College of Law, J.D., Summa C u m Laude, Activities and Societies: Idaho Law Review
Advocates Against Family Violence, Board of Directors, 2019 - Jan 2022
and
Jeff Nye, Chief, Criminal Law Division, Idaho Attorney General’s Office
Adjunct Professor, University of Idaho College of Law, Jan 2021 - Present, 2 years 4 months
JMO

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ingridbatey

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-nye-163067ab

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

dbm.

 

[al66pine]

Idaho Statutes. Insanity or Mental Condition as a Defense to Criminal Charges?

... a heinous crime... BK could still plead insanity. He can continue to insist he's innocent, as well....IMO.

snipped for focus @10ofRods. The insanity ref in your post prompted me to double check, to see if there was confusion w another state or case.

In ID, insanity is NOT a defense to crim charges.*
IOW, no plea of Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity. (or def't's mental condition, IIUC)

If def't is found guilty, then at sentencing, evd of def't's "MENTAL CONDITION" may be offered, and if court concludes "BY CLEAR AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE° it is a "SIGNIFICANT FACTOR" court may order evaluation & treatment, IN ADDITION TO
"treatment, the court shall pronounce sentence as provided by law."**

IOW, treatment (if authorized by court) during incarceration.

Per sources below. imo
Welcoming clarification or correction, esp'ly from our legal professionals.
_____________________________________________
* "Idaho Statutes. 18-207. Mental condition not a defense — Provision for treatment during incarceration — Reception of evidence — Notice and appointment of expert examiners. (1) Mental condition shall not be a defense to any charge of criminal conduct...."
"(2) If by the provisions of section 19-2523, Idaho Code, the court finds that one convicted of crime suffers from any mental condition requiring treatment, such person shall be committed to the board of correction..."

Section 18-207 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

** "19-2523. CONSIDERATION OF MENTAL ILLNESS IN SENTENCING. (1) Evidence of mental condition shall be received, if offered, at the time of sentencing of any person convicted of a crime. In determining the sentence to be imposed in addition to other criteria provided by law, if the defendant’s mental condition is a significant factor, the court shall consider such factors as:..."
laundry list of six factors.
"(2) The court shall authorize treatment during the period of confinement or probation specified in the sentence if, after the sentencing hearing, it concludes by clear and convincing evidence that:...."
-*four factors, including that def't suffers from a "severe and reliably diagnosable mental illness or defect resulting in the defendant’s inability to appreciate the wrongfulness of his conduct..."
"(3) In addition to the authorization of treatment, the court shall pronounce sentence as provided by law."

Section 19-2523 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

 

[Cool Cats]

Except BK drove past the house multiple times that night, in front of where Ethan parked his vehicle.

BK had to have seen how many vehicles were parked there. If he'd done any surveillance or stalking, he'd have known whos car was whos. Hard to believe that Ethan being there was a surprise for BK or something he hadn't prepared for.

I don't give him the intelligence credit for researching a boyfriend's vehicle.

And he is too cowardly to step foot into a house to confront a male.

2 Cents

EDIT

I do think he checked out the parking lot cars by walking in from the back, and if he did recognize E's truck then you are correct, he would have anticipated him. I believe he parked in one of those apartment parking spaces on road behind the house. He likely checked for surveillance cameras on his stalking missions.

I'm not "it's my way or the highway."

 

[Gemmie]

Just to change the subject, let's discuss your interesting POV a bit. SPECULATION AHEAD.

So, a man enters a home where, technically, only women reside. He does so in the dead of night, in the middle of the night, on a Saturday night, knowing that students are more vulnerable. Women are more vulnerable.

What *did* he plan to do? I've been reluctant to speculate, but over the months, you and others have really brought me around to considering the limited possibilities.

4. He intended to kill (and rape? or substitute killing for rape?) just one person (a woman). I do not believe he was there to kill Ethan.

IMO.

SBMFF.

#4 has been where I've been for quite a while now (and posted as such multiple times).

Good Q. Looking forward to the convo here.

 

[al66pine]

Easing the Prosecutor's Case Load?

.... This is a small District Attorney office....maybe in this case the DA is wanting these attorneys to actually appear and argue part of the case.... But the DA not only has to prepare this case, but also maintain his normal case load.

snipped for focus @PrairieWind
Wouldn't it be nice if Moscow PD officers & Latah County Sheriff's deputies would give Latah County Prosecutor the courtesy of refusing to make any arrests for any other crimes until final disposition of ID-4 murders?
Like, if they had any consideration at all for the prosecutor?

J/K, J/K, J/K. Seems some ppl fail to recognize a prosecutor's office handles more than one case at a time.

 

[girlhasnoname]

IMO It's becoming the dream team, now including both a victim rights organization former Board Member & an Adjunct Law Professor. Both areas helpful in this case, one in the teaching/studying of criminal law and the other familiar with victims rights.

Ingrid Batey, Lead Deputy Attorney General - Special Prosecutions
University of Idaho College of Law, J.D., Summa C u m Laude, Activities and Societies: Idaho Law Review
Advocates Against Family Violence, Board of Directors, 2019 - Jan 2022
and
Jeff Nye, Chief, Criminal Law Division, Idaho Attorney General’s Office
Adjunct Professor, University of Idaho College of Law, Jan 2021 - Present, 2 years 4 months
JMO

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ingridbatey

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-nye-163067ab

Not surprising to see a "dream team' assembled for one of the most high profile cases of the decade. Everyone wants their 5 minutes of fame these days.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

The DA has elected to proceed by information and Grand Jury? Can you say a little more about that. Has there been news of Grand Jury involvement? That's surprising to me.

IMO. I thought this was proceeding via PCA and Preliminary Hearing. Grand Jury should be in the rear view mirror. Does Idaho typically use Grand Juries in criminal matters of this type?

Not unusual if their PCA is going to be called into question as to the timing/validity of his arrest. They're covering their bases by empaneling a GJ for indictment, smart move IMO. (I mentioned they might do this pages ago)

MOO