4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #78

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
IMO It's becoming the dream team, now including both a victim rights organization former Board Member & an Adjunct Law Professor. Both areas helpful in this case, one in the teaching/studying of criminal law and the other familiar with victims rights.

Ingrid Batey, Lead Deputy Attorney General - Special Prosecutions
University of Idaho College of Law, J.D., Summa C u m Laude, Activities and Societies: Idaho Law Review
Advocates Against Family Violence, Board of Directors, 2019 - Jan 2022
and
Jeff Nye, Chief, Criminal Law Division, Idaho Attorney General’s Office
Adjunct Professor, University of Idaho College of Law, Jan 2021 - Present, 2 years 4 months
JMO

A little more about JN

From the link below...hired in Jan 2023 as Chief, Criminal Law Division

Jeff Nye currently leads the Special Prosecutions Unit in the Idaho Attorney General’s Office. He has investigated and prosecuted serious crimes, including homicides, sex crimes, and matters involving public corruption. Before serving in the Attorney General’s Office, Nye clerked for Judge N. Randy Smith on the U.S. Court of Appeals and worked as a civil litigation attorney. Nye earned his law degree from Georgetown University Law Center, where he graduated magna *advertiser censored* laude and served as the Executive Editor of the American Criminal Law Review.


Adjunct professor taught Lawyering Process in 2020

 
I have always found that very interesting, odd even. I suspect that the direct witnesses (roommates and friends present when LE arrived) were told not to say anything after they'd been interviewed, but it's very unusual for a group that big and that consumed by social media didn't post anything about what they saw, heard, heard about or experienced. There was near complete silence.

The students in my HS know details about something that happened at a school on the other side of town before admin has had time to notify parents at the affected school. How did LE or someone else manage to nearly silence an entire campus of students, including the students who lived on the same street and were surely rubbernecking when LE arrived en masse?
I think LE told those at the scene the importance of keeping the details confidential. Catching a murderer might depend on it.Their 4 college friends were brutally murdered, it does not surprise me at all that they were silent. This impacted these friends, relatives and community tremendously and I believe they banded together to keep the information quiet for this reason.

Had it been something minor, so and so did such and such it would probably be a different story.

JMO
 
Just to change the subject, let's discuss your interesting POV a bit. SPECULATION AHEAD.

So, a man enters a home where, technically, only women reside. He does so in the dead of night, in the middle of the night, on a Saturday night, knowing that students are more vulnerable. Women are more vulnerable.

What *did* he plan to do? I've been reluctant to speculate, but over the months, you and others have really brought me around to considering the limited possibilities.

1. He intended to kill everyone he could. (This was my initial hypothesis, based on mass murderer data). It then becomes an issue of Why that particular house?
2. He intended to rape someone and not kill anyone.
3. He intended to hot prowl the house and not kill anyone.
4. He intended to kill (and rape? or substitute killing for rape?) just one person (a woman). I do not believe he was there to kill Ethan.
5. He intended to kill just one person but also, if an apparent lover was there, also that person ("intention" is broadly construed here - this is a man who entered illegally into the home of sleeping people, with a KA-Bar knife in hand; I believe he had practiced his moves; it's easy for me to think he had intent to murder).
6. He intended to kill or harm 2 people (there's enough in the existing MSM reporting to make that a possibility) and each of those people was with someone else that night.

(I realize that some here are waiting to hear definitively that the killer was male - I believe the killer was male). I"m not interested, myself, in speculation that this crime was committed by some random woman (who is not a housemate, but if others want to go there, it's still speculation).

Are there other possibilities I've overlooked? Male serial killer (who so far hasn't had his crimes linked up?)

It would be the first time in criminal history that some person (BK) had his DNA on an element in the crime scene (the death bed) and it turned out to be a random serial killer. I can't buy that. Said serial killer would have had to know BK and get his DNA on the use point of the sheath, somehow. Without leaving their own. Said serial killer still has to wield the knife and get out of the house rapidly. I believe DM saw someone. That person was male, about 5'10" - 6' tall, lean, prominent brows. Size X foot (known to LE - but must surely match the size range of BK, or else that would be exonerating at the get-go).

That's my speculation. And I think speculation is all we can do right now and I welcome it. I like understanding how others think about these matters.

IMO.
IMO - firstly -
 
Easing the Prosecutor's Case Load?

snipped for focus @PrairieWind
Wouldn't it be nice if Moscow PD officers & Latah County Sheriff's deputies would give Latah County Prosecutor the courtesy of refusing to make any arrests for any other crimes until final disposition of ID-4 murders?
Like, if they had any consideration at all for the prosecutor?

J/K, J/K, J/K. Seems some ppl fail to recognize a prosecutor's office handles more than one case at a time.
The PA even mentioned that in his request for assistance.
 
Many years ago, I was left with PTSD after narrowly escaping a long-term marriage to a male with a very dangerous personality. He finally died last month so there's no valid reason for me to live in fear. I must learn to get him out of my mind. The flashbacks come unprovoked. Panic attacks can begin at any given time. I suffer from severe insomnia because I live in a state of hypervigilance.

The survivors no doubt have been severely traumatized. Should reliving those frightening moments prevent a survivor from testifying? I had to face my husband during court hearings for the brutal two year battle in order to obtain a divorce. Was it easy? No, it was terrorizing. However, the events that caused the trauma surface every day anyway.

Will testifying in court in front of the defendant be highly traumatizing? There's not a doubt in my mind that the very thought of being involved in the legal proceedings instills incredible pain and unrelenting fear for an empath.

There are three human responses to danger accompanied with intense fear from things said, seen or heard. They are: fight, flight or freeze. As we read with DM in the PCA, she was frozen. I would fight testifying in ID with all of my might and every cent my family could afford. Placing her in a jail cell for refusal, may mean she'll never adequately recover. How could this happen to her based on claims of a hired PI?

JMHOO
I'm so sorry you experienced that, and you make some excellent points. However, I believe this PI is an investigator on staff at the PD's office, which makes it different than some random PI. Perhaps I'm naive. I do surprise myself in that way sometimes.

I also believe everyone's experience with and response to trauma is different. I know a young lady who was viciously and brutally attacked in her own home. She was lucky to live. She was frightened, yet determined to testify. Afterward, she said finding the courage to do so - not letting the attacker intimidate her further, if you will - made her feel she had reclaimed some of her former self. Not testifying will definitely not erase the trauma these young ladies have experienced, but none of us are in a position to know exactly what is happening in side their heads. Some of us have the education and experience to make a very good guess, but we cannot know. It's entirely possible that she's avoiding testifying at the PH due to trauma. It could also be that she simply resents being summoned to testify for the defense and is doing everything she can to avoid it. We just cannot know at this point. MOOooo
 
Oops - apologies - Sophie the kitty did it again - ie jumped on keyboard and managed to send incomplete response

10 of Rods said: Just to change the subject, let's discuss your interesting POV a bit. SPECULATION AHEAD.

So, a man enters a home where, technically, only women reside. He does so in the dead of night, in the middle of the night, on a Saturday night, knowing that students are more vulnerable. Women are more vulnerable.

What *did* he plan to do? I've been reluctant to speculate, but over the months, you and others have really brought me around to considering the limited possibilities.

1. He intended to kill everyone he could. (This was my initial hypothesis, based on mass murderer data). It then becomes an issue of Why that particular house?
2. He intended to rape someone and not kill anyone.
3. He intended to hot prowl the house and not kill anyone.
4. He intended to kill (and rape? or substitute killing for rape?) just one person (a woman). I do not believe he was there to kill Ethan.
5. He intended to kill just one person but also, if an apparent lover was there, also that person ("intention" is broadly construed here - this is a man who entered illegally into the home of sleeping people, with a KA-Bar knife in hand; I believe he had practiced his moves; it's easy for me to think he had intent to murder).
6. He intended to kill or harm 2 people (there's enough in the existing MSM reporting to make that a possibility) and each of those people was with someone else that night.

(I realize that some here are waiting to hear definitively that the killer was male - I believe the killer was male). I"m not interested, myself, in speculation that this crime was committed by some random woman (who is not a housemate, but if others want to go there, it's still speculation).

Are there other possibilities I've overlooked? Male serial killer (who so far hasn't had his crimes linked up?)

It would be the first time in criminal history that some person (BK) had his DNA on an element in the crime scene (the death bed) and it turned out to be a random serial killer. I can't buy that. Said serial killer would have had to know BK and get his DNA on the use point of the sheath, somehow. Without leaving their own. Said serial killer still has to wield the knife and get out of the house rapidly. I believe DM saw someone. That person was male, about 5'10" - 6' tall, lean, prominent brows. Size X foot (known to LE - but must surely match the size range of BK, or else that would be exonerating at the get-go).

That's my speculation. And I think speculation is all we can do right now and I welcome it. I like understanding how others think about these matters.

I'm very hopeful that my kitty will allow me to complete my response to 10 of Rods' thought-provoking post above, without further sabotage...

All of the following is pure speculation - MOO. Firstly, why this particular house?
I think this house was targeted because he knew who at least some of the residents were.

IMO he became aware of Maddie and Xana whilst dining/getting takeaway at the Mad Greek restaurant, where they worked. Given his penchant for vegan food, which was available there, I think it's highly unlikely that their paths wouldn't have crossed on numerous occasions MOO.

I think his interest was really piqued, and as a patron he likely interacted with one or both with some small talk. He possibly followed one or both home. From then on, IMO he frequently surveilled the house from his car in the parking spot where he had a direct view of Maddie's room. (Just horrifying).
His night-time running was an ideal cover for being out and about.

IMO he was keeping tabs on the house enough to feel comfortable choosing that house, and given the parties which occurred there, the likelihood of him being legitimately (sort of - probably uninvited) is pretty high MOO. Various reports have noted that the number used for keypad entry was known by many people, if he wished to secretly enter by that means.

MOO forensic investigation of digital and SM records will show that there were many instances of BK keeping an eye on (not necessarily officially "following") the residents' posts. He may have had sufficient knowledge to access/hack into one or more computers at the house.

To answer your question 10 of RodsI regarding points 1-6, IMO they're all valid possibilities. My sense';;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;54.
 
What? Lol

You said: "The police have the time stamped cctv of the Elantra driving off at high speed and the neighbours doorbell footage of the loud thud, so they’re pretty confident of the actual time the murders occurred."

And I'm saying, if the police want to prove BK is guilty of murder because his car was at the scene of the crime, they can't use the car to determine the time of the murders. That's circular logic and confirmation bias, IMO.
 
Oops - apologies - Sophie the kitty did it again - ie jumped on keyboard and managed to send incomplete response

10 of Rods said: Just to change the subject, let's discuss your interesting POV a bit. SPECULATION AHEAD.

So, a man enters a home where, technically, only women reside. He does so in the dead of night, in the middle of the night, on a Saturday night, knowing that students are more vulnerable. Women are more vulnerable.

What *did* he plan to do? I've been reluctant to speculate, but over the months, you and others have really brought me around to considering the limited possibilities.

1. He intended to kill everyone he could. (This was my initial hypothesis, based on mass murderer data). It then becomes an issue of Why that particular house?
2. He intended to rape someone and not kill anyone.
3. He intended to hot prowl the house and not kill anyone.
4. He intended to kill (and rape? or substitute killing for rape?) just one person (a woman). I do not believe he was there to kill Ethan.
5. He intended to kill just one person but also, if an apparent lover was there, also that person ("intention" is broadly construed here - this is a man who entered illegally into the home of sleeping people, with a KA-Bar knife in hand; I believe he had practiced his moves; it's easy for me to think he had intent to murder).
6. He intended to kill or harm 2 people (there's enough in the existing MSM reporting to make that a possibility) and each of those people was with someone else that night.

(I realize that some here are waiting to hear definitively that the killer was male - I believe the killer was male). I"m not interested, myself, in speculation that this crime was committed by some random woman (who is not a housemate, but if others want to go there, it's still speculation).

Are there other possibilities I've overlooked? Male serial killer (who so far hasn't had his crimes linked up?)

It would be the first time in criminal history that some person (BK) had his DNA on an element in the crime scene (the death bed) and it turned out to be a random serial killer. I can't buy that. Said serial killer would have had to know BK and get his DNA on the use point of the sheath, somehow. Without leaving their own. Said serial killer still has to wield the knife and get out of the house rapidly. I believe DM saw someone. That person was male, about 5'10" - 6' tall, lean, prominent brows. Size X foot (known to LE - but must surely match the size range of BK, or else that would be exonerating at the get-go).

That's my speculation. And I think speculation is all we can do right now and I welcome it. I like understanding how others think about these matters.

I'm very hopeful that my kitty will allow me to complete my response to 10 of Rods' thought-provoking post above, without further sabotage...

All of the following is pure speculation - MOO. Firstly, why this particular house?
I think this house was targeted because he knew who at least some of the residents were.

IMO he became aware of Maddie and Xana whilst dining/getting takeaway at the Mad Greek restaurant, where they worked. Given his penchant for vegan food, which was available there, I think it's highly unlikely that their paths wouldn't have crossed on numerous occasions MOO.

I think his interest was really piqued, and as a patron he likely interacted with one or both with some small talk. He possibly followed one or both home. From then on, IMO he frequently surveilled the house from his car in the parking spot where he had a direct view of Maddie's room. (Just horrifying).
His night-time running was an ideal cover for being out and about.

IMO he was keeping tabs on the house enough to feel comfortable choosing that house, and given the parties which occurred there, the likelihood of him being legitimately (sort of - probably uninvited) is pretty high MOO. Various reports have noted that the number used for keypad entry was known by many people, if he wished to secretly enter by that means.

MOO forensic investigation of digital and SM records will show that there were many instances of BK keeping an eye on (not necessarily officially "following") the residents' posts. He may have had sufficient knowledge to access/hack into one or more computers at the house.

To answer your question 10 of RodsI regarding points 1-6, IMO they're all valid possibilities. My sense';;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;54.
Yep - kitty did it again before I could complete my response, so I'll make it quick this time. I think all six points are feasible, but I'm going with no. 1 - sort of - IMO the perpetrator wanted to kill at least one resident, but anticipated problems arising- and resolved to kill whomever he might "bump into" - to take out as many people as necessary. The ka-bar certainly indicated he wasn't mucking around. IMO his compulsion was overriding everything else,and he didnt care how many people he needed to kill. I don't think he planned a sexual assault per se, but, correct me if I'm wrong - is not rape generally considered to be about power rather than sex? Therein lies the motive. IMO he was sexually obsessed with one of the girls, and wanted ultimate power - more than a sexual assault coud give him. Exerting power over people was the motive IMO
 
A little more about JN

From the link below...hired in Jan 2023 as Chief, Criminal Law Division

Jeff Nye currently leads the Special Prosecutions Unit in the Idaho Attorney General’s Office. He has investigated and prosecuted serious crimes, including homicides, sex crimes, and matters involving public corruption. Before serving in the Attorney General’s Office, Nye clerked for Judge N. Randy Smith on the U.S. Court of Appeals and worked as a civil litigation attorney. Nye earned his law degree from Georgetown University Law Center, where he graduated magna *advertiser censored* laude and served as the Executive Editor of the American Criminal Law Review.


Adjunct professor taught Lawyering Process in 2020

Just wanted to correct my post past edit time: the press release for hire was Jan 2022 not 2023.
 
<modsnip>

"Investigator Richard Bitonti, who is working for Anne Taylor, Mr Kohberger's lawyer, has subpoenaed Ms Funke to appear at the accused killer's hearing on June 28.

According to the affidavit, she allegedly witnessed a naked man run through a rear sliding door. She lived on the first-floor of the home and came face-to-face with the alleged killer."

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Not unusual if their PCA is going to be called into question as to the timing/validity of his arrest. They're covering their bases by empaneling a GJ for indictment, smart move IMO. (I mentioned they might do this pages ago)

MOO
10 of Rods is responding to a statement I made in which I misspoke. I meant to say proceed by Information and Preliminary hearing.
 
You said: "The police have the time stamped cctv of the Elantra driving off at high speed and the neighbours doorbell footage of the loud thud, so they’re pretty confident of the actual time the murders occurred."

And I'm saying, if the police want to prove BK is guilty of murder because his car was at the scene of the crime, they can't use the car to determine the time of the murders. That's circular logic and confirmation bias, IMO.
They have his dna on a knife sleeve found beside one of the bodies where the victims have been stabbed, they have his car arriving and leaving on cctv / doorbell footage which is time stamped, thereby giving an accurate window the murder occurred… or am I missing something ?
 
Unfortunately, the days of detailed journalism have been replaced by an era of short web postings. Details are left out, and we all interpret generalized statements differently.

I interpreted the original articles about the investigator and BF to be that the investigator found potentially exculpatory evidence from BR in the records of her interviews with LE, not independent research, and it represents something that she saw or heard. I also inferred that she was not cooperating with the investigator or public defender. My gut feeling is that there is something in her statements that required clarification or more detail, information that could potentially be helpful to the defense.

If there was actually evidence of BK's innocence, BK's lawyers would not be keeping this quiet until late June.

BF may have made statements that bring the timeline into question, or that might suggest contamination of evidence. If the defense can get the knife sheath excluded, this case becomes much weaker. The phone records place BK near the house, but the evidence released so far does not definitively place him at the scene of the crime, only nearby. There are other houses and apartment close by.

It was reported early on by her family that KG was a "websleuth" (although it is not known whether or not she visited here). Did others in the house share that interest? Could this have come up in conversation with a criminology student during casual conversation at a restaurant or bar? Could BK have interacted with one or more of the victims on a true crime website?
 
Is there a link that confirms the DA plans to use a Grand Jury?

I can only find two MSM articles (maybe only one that's allowed here: Newsweek), published on Jan. 23, 2023. And it says:

Since the announcement, speculation has grown online around whether the 28-year-old criminology student and Washington State University teaching assistant will face a grand jury.

So "online speculation" is the source there. The article goes on to say that in Idaho, such a Grand Jury could be convened without notifying the Defense (or, obviously, the press).



The second article is from Fox and does NOT say there's a Grand Jury being convened. Instead, it mentions what Grand Juries in Idaho might be like:


From that article, we learn about what prosecutors CAN do and what they COULD do, according to an Idaho lawyer who is not associated with the case:

But prosecutors can undercut the procedural maneuver by seeking a grand jury indictment, which would also spare the surviving roommates from having to sit in court across from Kohberger and face cross-examination during a preliminary hearing, according to Idaho lawyer Edwina Elcox, who previously represented alleged "Cult Mom" Lori Vallow.

Neither article says there is a Grand Jury. So much obliged if anyone can find an actual source for that.

@PrairieWind has cleared up the confusion further, I believe. So No Grand Jury (that we know of).

IMO.
 
<modsnip>

"Investigator Richard Bitonti, who is working for Anne Taylor, Mr Kohberger's lawyer, has subpoenaed Ms Funke to appear at the accused killer's hearing on June 28.

According to the affidavit, she allegedly witnessed a naked man run through a rear sliding door. She lived on the first-floor of the home and came face-to-face with the alleged killer."


What affidavit could the Mirror possibly mean, I wonder? The only unsealed affidavit that I know of is the PCA - but that's not in there, or we'd have been discussing it non-stop.

How did the Mirror get a sealed affidavit? It's intriguing and the Mirror is considered MSM here, I believe.

That could explain what appeared to be LE's keen interest in that back slider. But what the hey??

IMO.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
217
Guests online
2,185
Total visitors
2,402

Forum statistics

Threads
603,480
Messages
18,157,315
Members
231,747
Latest member
Kitty7766
Back
Top