4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #80

[jepop]

MOO IMO if guilty, he feared and did not want to risk faltering while physically verbalizing (a lie) in the public spotlight.

Interesting that he originally said he would be "exonerated," and not the more direct statement that he didn't do it, is innocent.
Exhonorated MOO can mean "justified."

This is an interesting angle and I think it is definately a possibility. BK, if guilty, could have simply told his counsel he'd rather plea via standing silence for his own reasons, which could include what you're suggesting. I still haven't found what practical difference standing silent might have for his defense going forward as I'm not sold on it opening up an option for an Alford plea that would otherwise be denied. MOO
edited spelling

 

[happyday]

I don't believe there is any way that the State will offer an Alford plea in this case.

Him standing silent is a way to 'say without saying' they challenge the indictment.

MOO

I think so too. I think it is a way to be defiant. Even if there is also a strategy behind it, standing silent, by nature, IMO comes across as saying ‘I am not even acknowledging these charges against me.’

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I haven’t watched that yet.

It's a don't miss because it raises the conversation several levels and applies both sides of the law to the argument. IMO very well done, and I felt for the attorney to whom he was speaking, but if I were that guy, I wouldn't plan on making partner just yet. Yowza, it hurt. Esp the part about what the ISC did not hold.

IMO law is what separates us from the madding crowd. If the gag order is lifted, I'm afraid last night is just a precursor of what happens to stir the madding crowd, and I think it's wrong and barbaric. JMO.

 

[NuttMegg]

And the lawyer (Peter Tragos of @TragosLaw and the YT channel, THE LAWYER YOU KNOW) I was watching said he too would have had BK stand silent.

I guess that's why we bother to hold criminal trials!

(I realize Depp's lawyer and "mine" aren't recognized WS sources on the Idaho case, but perhaps we'll be allowed to invoke them just as examples of differing counselors.)

We can quote Depp's lawyer's opinion, as the interview was part of a law and crime MSM program, an accepted source here, I posted the link.

 

[Erutan]

BBM: thats what I have thought from the beginning, and still do thru all the brickbats. But I go a step further, in that imo it was a stunt to exert power, attract attention, similar to "politely" asking the cop if next time he should back out thru an intersection.

The wide variety of opinions from all the 10 or so internet lawyers I've heard since, leads me to believe there was no particular strategy involved, and when presented by his lawyer with his various options, he innately went for "thumb his nose at the victims", because that's who he is. Even defense lawyer Scott Reisch could not come up with any justification for that stand silent bit.


Imo

ITA !
Unfortunately, I think BK is relishing the "attention", even though at the end it could mean life without parole or the dp.
Ugh.

Yes, vegans have a hard time getting and absorbing B12. Some people’s systems have a harder time than others, no matter how educated on what foods to eat, of course. But B12 deficiency can wreak havoc on a person’s nervous system and mental health. It can be pretty bad.

Thanks for this insight re. vegans.
I've never embraced the lifestyle but several friends of mine have done so and are excellent at preparing nutritious meals.

 

[jepop]

BBM: thats what I have thought from the beginning, and still do thru all the brickbats. But I go a step further, in that imo it was a stunt to exert power, attract attention, similar to "politely" asking the cop if next time he should back out thru an intersection.

The wide variety of opinions from all the 10 or so internet lawyers I've heard since, leads me to believe there was no particular strategy involved, and when presented by his lawyer with his various options, he innately went for "thumb his nose at the victims", because that's who he is. Even defense lawyer Scott Reisch could not come up with any justification for that stand silent bit.


Imo

Whilst I think it's possible that he chose standing silent for his own reasons, atm I find myself stopping short of trying to get inside his head. But that is not to say that I don't appreciate reading your thoughts and I respect your opinion.

 

[happyday]

ITA !
Unfortunately, I think BK is relishing the "attention", even though at the end it could mean life without parole or the dp.
Ugh.

Thanks for this insight re. vegans.
I've never embraced the lifestyle but several friends of mine have done so and are excellent at preparing nutritious meals.

FYI—I should have put IME in my post about vegans and B12. I have tried being a vegetarian and vegan in my life, but unfortunately my body isn’t one that does well with those diets. It’s a shame too, because I would LOVE to be able to thrive on a plant based diet.
And I personally don’t believe that if he committed this horrible crime, it was because of his diet. But I do think any kind of vitamin deficiency can exacerbate existing mental health or personality issues. MOO

 

[jepop]

I think so too. I think it is a way to be defiant. Even if there is also a strategy behind it, standing silent, by nature, IMO comes across as saying ‘I am not even acknowledging these charges against me.’

RBBM: I think it's definately possible that some of the victims' families might perceive it that way, which is why I also don't see this as being a tactic the defense might have adopted to claim potential mitigation of the pain and suffering of the victims (by not openly pleading not guilty at arraignment) should defendant decide to make a plea bargain of guilty at some future point. MOO

 

[PrairieWind]

IANAL, but I am nearly 100% sure that is not the case.

Many defendants change their pleas before they are convicted or acquitted, frequently in collaboration with the prosecution. It would be barbaric to deny them that right.

Perhaps @PrairieWind would like to put this Alford plea discussion to bed. IMO, it is a side track produced by us in this thread.

I can't imagine that would be the case. I don't see why. Him not saying anything is the same as saying "not guilty."

 

[mickey2942]

In a perverse way, BK is probably proud of his crime. It was impossibly heinous. Which could be why he doesn't want to say, "Not Guilty". This is serious "cred" to have killed four people with a knife. Sort of like Ted Bundy...gruesome to the rest of the world, but in his head, could possibly be a huge moment in his life. He planned it, he did it....so he doesn't want to deny it.

Who knows?

 

[U.N. Known]

It's, of course, your opinion that the MSM journalists were using opinion. I'd like to see an example of that opinion.

IMO. If the journalist's sources are stale (as you mention about one of the journalists), I get that. I guess I don't trust all MSM either, preferring instead to read here on WS (although I do write investigative pieces - I am not writing anything about this one, yet).

IMO. However, there's a long road between "Instant journalism" and "longterm, investigative journalism."

Journalists and victim attorney are in vastly different categories, to me.

IMO.

I purposely left out the two sources; I used them purely for my own curiosity to check my thoughts before posting. My post was not a "bash MSM or journalism" post, it was related to the gag order. It isn't my opinion that the journalists inserted their opinions--they did, based on this: using this "OPINION implies a conclusion thought out yet open to dispute." from Miriam Webster. It was subtle, but it was there. I may not have noticed if I wasn't trying to determine if it was there.

I may be that (rare?) person who does not want to know what the journalist thinks about the story in the moment. I just want information.

 

[NuttMegg]

Obviously, so far Ms. Taylor has not tipped her hand regarding any planned vegan or twinkie defense, or the current morph of that, imo: mitigating circumstances ie which got that Fla.mass murderer off the dp.

But SCOTUS member Scalia had no qualms about the desirability of such stunts/tactics.

"During oral Supreme Court arguments in United States v. Gonzalez-Lopez, 548 U.S. 140 (2006), Justice Antonin Scalia referred to the Twinkie defense with regard to the right to counsel of choice as perhaps more important than the right to effective assistance of counsel: "I don't want a competent lawyer. I want a lawyer who's going to get me off. I want a lawyer who will invent the Twinkie defense. ... I would not consider the Twinkie defense an invention of a competent lawyer. But I want a lawyer who's going to win for me."[7]. BBM

Twinkie defense - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[U.N. Known]

I read you post earlier and thought, ah that is an interesting angle. However with more thought, I'm not sure because staying silent may infact have subjected the victim's families to additional pain and suffering as opposed to stating emphatically NG or, ofcourse, pleading guilty right there and then and taking responsibility. The victims may well have taken offense at his silence. So if that is the reason behind such a tactic, IMO it carries substantial risk for defense going forward if they later wish to negotiate a guilty plea bargain later on. MOO

I hope that doing anything based on how the families feel or don't is not the basis AT's defense. Appearances do count, even if they shouldn't, but AT's job is to defend BK's interests even if the families are offended.

 

[Cool Cats]

I think this happens every time in high profile cases. People get emotionally invested and see and interpret things differently.

MOO

I am following 4 murderers in Ohio who killed 8 people in one family and the scrutiny on every move they made in court was not scrutinized like it is with Kohberger. This case has hit a nerve throughout the country.
Harder to get a fair trial but Lori Vallow got one.

 

[Cool Cats]

This is interesting IMO,

Idaho is one of four states that do not provide explicitly for insanity pleas, but defendants in the state can introduce testimony at trial to show that, as a result of mental illness, they are not guilty of certain elements of a crime, like the “malice aforethought” that must be proved in order for a jury to convict a defendant of murder.

Idaho Murder Suspect Declines to Enter Plea (Published 2023)

Bryan Kohberger, the former Ph.D. student accused of killing four University of Idaho students, appeared in court Monday after being indicted on murder charges.

www.nytimes.com

Interesting if they are going for mental diminished capacity, could account for the silent plea.

Malice aforethought must be proved.

No problem. He brought a knife breaking and entering into a home at 4:00am.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

That’s the thing. The two upstairs I understand. Or the two downstairs. But remember how SG said, he didn’t need to go upstairs? Either up or down, but he didn’t need to go to two floors. Something doesn’t add up, and I am starting to wonder if he mostly enjoyed making a mess. I am trying to understand, why.

I took that to mean that SG was saying the target was on the third floor because if he was just there to kill anyone, he didn't need to go upstairs. Xana and Ethan were likely awake and got in the way of him leaving quickly. JMO.

 

[gliving]

Idaho college murders: 2 slain students' families reserve right to sue Moscow, documents say

The families of two of the victims in the University of Idaho killings have filed notice reserving their right to sue the city of Moscow, according to documents.

abcnews.go.com

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

it was the contrast that was mind blowing. I don't agree with you, I think that had he simply said "not guilty" in the same neutral tone he used for saying he understood the charges, no one would have remarked on the style. It was as though he wanted to attract attention and cause a stir with the silent treatment. Obviously a jury didn't see the stunt, but I wish they had.


Imo

A Constitutional right is not a stunt nor is it the silent treatment.

JMO.

 

[SpiderFalcon]

I think, and it's just speculation, that there is a reason for this. I remember <modsnip: rumor> Steve Goncalves said that Kaylee and Maddie's injuries were completely different (paraphrasing).

I do think there could be something in it, and I think count 1 is worded differently for that specific reason, but I'm only guessing so don't take it as fact.

All JMO.

The Indictment says "stabbing" on all four Murder counts.

 

[al66pine]

An Asteroid Parallel Parking??? = Post of the Day by @schooling

.... If Dateline is correct in their reporting about the Amazon KaBar purchase...add another coincidence to the pile of coincidences.

We've moved from Powerball winning ticket probabilities to an asteroid softly landing on earth and paralleling parking on a NYC street, levels of probability.

MOO.

Despite the delay in announcing, we have a winner for Post of the Day. And regardless of what members think about the merits of the case against BK, imo the @schooling post gives us a fitting description of the Shift in Levels of Probability.

A round of applause, pls?