4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #80

[SteveP]

There has been post after post about the Alford Plea since BK "stood silent" at yesterday's indictment hearing, with many posters suggesting that by not entering a plea, he was leaving the door open to an Alford plea being submitted in order to get LWOP, as opposed to the death penalty. I just don't see that happening. I know that prison living conditions differ for someone sentenced to death as opposed to sentenced to LWOP, but the state of Idaho last carried out a death sentence in 2012, so the reality is that the odds of BK ever actually being put to death are very low. In essence, the DP is LWOP with less privileges. I am of the opinion that BK would rather roll the dice and take a chance on beating a conviction at trial. Even if he is not found not guilty, all he needs is one sympathetic juror to get a hung jury and a mistrial. At that point, an Alford plea could be an alternative to a retrial, although I feel like the state would probably still choose to retry him. But if BK pleads guilty to LWOP in an Alford plea before any trial takes place, he has no chance of ever seeing the light of day as a free man again. I think he is arrogant enough to think he can beat the murder rap. I feel confident this will go to trial, with DP being pursued. I feel equally confident the trial will result in convictions on all charges, and BK will spend the rest of his life in prison. JMO

 

[Nila Aella]

• 05/22/2023 Court Minutes
• 05/22/2023 Custody Order
• 05/23/2023 Court Minutes
• 05/23/2023 Notice of Hearing (Jury Trial)
• 05/23/2023 Notice of Hearing (Mr Grays Motion)
• 05/23/2023 Notice of Hearing (Motion to Compel)
• 05/23/2023 Notice of Hearing (Mr Carones Motion)

 

[jepop]

Well actually they have "A" white Elantra in the area, the same one that they changed the year of only after finding out BCK's was a 2015.

As far as the cell tower data, that bit of "evidence" (or lack of) has been discussed ad nauseam in MSM and on this site showing numerous problems with attempting to prove he was actually "close to the residence" at those times...

RBBM: I don't remember reading that anywhere in the PCA or any court documents or in any LE released statements. As far as I know, we don't have a date on when investigators internally expanded the years from 2011-2013, to 2011- 2016. MOO

However, we do know from the PCA that LE were looking at white elantras in Pullman in late Nov and on Nov 29th did a computerised rego check of white elantras that went beyond 2013 because it was on that day that BK's 2015 elantra was discovered on the WSU system. Also on that day, very early am hours WSU officer on street were looking for elantras that included years beyond 2013 because on that day BK's car was identified in Steptoe appartment complex and called in to be checked. MOO but all of that is in the PCA - link at beginning of thread.

 

[Cool Cats]

snipped by me @Cool Cats from your post:
"This arrogant killer gets away with never admitting guilt and never being found guilty."

If he is guilty (and ITS, but I'm not in the jury pool) then yes, it may be of some comfort to families for him to plead aloud in court, "Guilty."

But if BK is sentenced to LWOP and spends the rest of his life in prison (or receives DP, unlikely OR is executed, even more unlikely) is his failure to say that actually significant?

Hypo: If BK got a ten yr. or ridiculously short sentence, would hearing BK say, "Guilty, Your Honor" significantly comfort to the families? As much as LWOP?

And regardless of his plea and eventual outcome, as long as BK is serving time, he will be "telling everyone that he is innocent but admits the prosecution had alot of circumstantial evidence against him."

imo jmo
edited to add/clarify quote from post.

An Alford Plea or a No Contest plea will not work in this Case because of the civil liability. Civil liability against any entity involved in the Case.

It will be easier to file civil charges against BK or against any entity if BK has admitted guilt or been found guilty than if he is able to take a plea in court where he doesn't have to admit any guilt.

Chances of Alford or No Contest = zero

2 Cents

 

[NCWatcher]

My theory is that BK did do it but what if the case gets tossed because LE had someone compromised (the Brady/Giglio issue, whatever it is)? Then perhaps the families want to be able to sue LE because it would be an administrative/internal issue to LE that causes the case to not move forward or would let BK walk on an appeal.

Just speculating and MOO.

Right, I understand your position (or at least I think I do!) But if that did happen, I still don't see why that would mean the families deserve financial compensation. The taxpayers who paid for the investigation and for the trial would also be losers in that scenario. Should they be compensated too?

But first, how does a tossed case-- tossed for whatever reason-- prove BK did it? The families may think he did but so what? Wouldn't there need to be some legal proof? But even if it was proved he did it, I'm not sure why the families would get money if he wasn't convicted for some reason. Do they have a right that BK (or any defendant) be convicted? And if he's not convicted, has their right has been violated? I don't think so. Or do they have a right to demand he be punished in a certain way? DP or whatever? I don't think so. Usually DAs-- an elected position-- will talk to families if the DP is an option but choosing to pursue it isn't up to the families.

Families usually have a right to make impact statements during sentencing if someone is convicted. And they may have the right to speak at parole hearings if parole is possible. But I don't think they get compensation if things don't go the way they want during criminal cases even if mistakes were made. (Or at least I don't recall civil cases where that was established.) And let's face it, mistakes are always made. I'd be surprised too if families can win compensation for not being given confidential info by LE during an investigation. I'm very sympathetic-- I'd want info too-- but as we've seen, families blab.
JMO

 

[10ofRods]

• 05/22/2023 Court Minutes
• 05/22/2023 Custody Order
• 05/23/2023 Court Minutes
• 05/23/2023 Notice of Hearing (Jury Trial)
• 05/23/2023 Notice of Hearing (Mr Grays Motion)
• 05/23/2023 Notice of Hearing (Motion to Compel)
• 05/23/2023 Notice of Hearing (Mr Carones Motion)

Thank you once again! These are the kinds of records I love to see - and it shows that the hearings held in Judge's court do have a public record. Not everything is sealed.

But, we cannot know the content of Mr Gray's motion at this time. Or what the motion to compel is trying to compel. Sigh. I don't even know who Gray and Carone are, so if anyone knows, I'd appreciate if you shared.

IMO.

 

[schooling]

Well, taking it a step further, all DNA is circumstantial evidence. His DNA on those other objects would not mean that it got there at the time of the murders. Luckily, they have his car and cell phone in the same area during the time of the murders. One can reasonably surmise that a sheath with his DNA making it into the home came from him dropping it there.

Yes, to all of this.

I feel like we are a hop skip and a jump away from "what is DNA...really..." and other existential questions. And arguing over the nuance of the definitions of 'at' vs 'in' vs 'on'.

I've even seen it argued that DNA on a doorknob is stronger evidence than DNA on the sheath of the potential murder weapon. Because a door knob is relatively permanent can't be carried inside of the house....

Thank goodness it's 'Beyond a Reasonable Doubt' and not 'Beyond All Doubt'.

 

[PrairieWind]

Yes, to all of this.

I feel like we are a hop skip and a jump away from "what is DNA...really..." and other existential questions. And arguing over the nuance of the definitions of 'at' vs 'in' vs 'on'.

I've even seen it argued that DNA on a doorknob is stronger evidence than DNA on the sheath of the potential murder weapon. Because a door knob is relatively permanent can't be carried inside of the house....

Thank goodness it's 'Beyond a Reasonable Doubt' and not 'Beyond All Doubt'.

You are missing the nuances of forensic science in court and the rules of procedure, what is allowed, and what is not.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I don’t know what to think about this. Are they trying to get someone to talk? JMO

I don't know what has prompted this. I think this should have been put on hold until after the criminal trial has been concluded. I would hate for this to jeopardize any of the legal proceedings although I know he is a father in great pain.

MOO

 

[TamanthaLynn]

Well actually they have "A" white Elantra in the area, the same one that they changed the year of only after finding out BCK's was a 2015.

As far as the cell tower data, that bit of "evidence" (or lack of) has been discussed ad nauseam in MSM and on this site showing numerous problems with attempting to prove he was actually "close to the residence" at those times...

Well, we know that cars tend to have a similar look, even across different years. It is part of what makes the car that brand of car. The year being wrong doesn't concern me. I'm amazed that they were even able to get the right model out of what they were given to go by.

And we also know that there is not much the media won't make seem to be a major point of contention for no other reason than the conflict will keep people more engaged. So, we will see what the inevitable dueling experts will say during the trial regarding the cell phone records.

As it stands, all of these things are far too coincidental to just be coincidences, imo. Of course, I am open to seeing what conclusion the actual evidence, as presented at trial, will lead me.

 

[Cool Cats]

I'd say that 95% of plea deals from a DA come after a not guilty plea. why do you doubt it?

But the defendant 95% of the time pleads guilty to some lesser offense in the plea deal. It would be impossible to get a plea deal without pleading guilty to something.

If BK pleads I believe it will end up being guilty to murder in exchange for dropping the DP.

The State will use the DP as leverage. 2 Cents

 

[PrairieWind]

An Alford Plea or a No Contest plea will not work in this Case because of the civil liability. Civil liability against any entity involved in the Case.

It will be easier to file civil charges against BK or against any entity if BK has admitted guilt or been found guilty than if he is able to take a plea in court where he doesn't have to admit any guilt.

Chances of Alford or No Contest = zero

2 Cents

I don't understand what you are stating. Is this a legal opinion? Because I don't understand it.

 

[jepop]

I don't know what has prompted this. I think this should have been put on hold until after the criminal trial has been concluded. I would hate for this to jeopardize any of the legal proceedings although I know he is a father in great pain.

MOO

That is my concern too. It just feels so wrong. MOO

ETA: and yes to putting on hold until after trial.

 

[Cool Cats]

I don't understand what you are stating. Is this a legal opinion? Because I don't understand it.

CRIMINAL LAW

Is an Alford Plea the Same as a No Contest Plea?​

Understand how Alford and no contest pleas work and when and how they can be used.

https://www.lawyers.com/legal-info/criminal/criminal-law-basics/is-an-alford-plea-the-same-as-a-guilty-plea.html

Not Admitting Guilt for Purposes of Related Civil Lawsuit​

A key motivator of no contest pleas involves their impact on related civil lawsuits. Many criminal cases form the basis for civil actions. For example, an assault victim might sue a defendant for personal injuries in civil court, while the defendant also faces criminal assault charges. Or the family of a murder victim might bring a wrongful death action against the criminal suspect being tried for murder.

The burden of proof in the criminal case is much higher than in the civil case. Once the higher burden is met, the lower burden is also met. So, if the defendant were to plead guilty to the crime, the plaintiff in the civil case can point to the conviction to show the defendant was at fault and liable for damages. By entering a no contest plea, the defendant hasn’t admitted guilt or fault. The rules vary by jurisdiction—but in some states, without an admission of guilt in the criminal case, a defendant’s no contest plea can’t be used to establish fault in a related civil case.

It's less clear whether the same advantage holds true for Alford pleas. Because Alford pleas involve a guilty plea, some courts have admitted such pleas in a related civil case. But not all states have a clear rule on this issue.

 

[TamanthaLynn]

Yes, to all of this.

I feel like we are a hop skip and a jump away from "what is DNA...really..." and other existential questions. And arguing over the nuance of the definitions of 'at' vs 'in' vs 'on'.

I've even seen it argued that DNA on a doorknob is stronger evidence than DNA on the sheath of the potential murder weapon. Because a door knob is relatively permanent can't be carried inside of the house....

Thank goodness it's 'Beyond a Reasonable Doubt' and not 'Beyond All Doubt'.

Yes. That's a big problem, today. There are so many people who get off on being flatly contrarian about things, who will always argue against the majority, even if the facts are on the majority's side.

I'm all for critical thinking but it also has to be REASONABLE thinking. I can take just about any case and retroactively come up with a reason as to why the things presented at trial, to get the conviction, could actually mean something else. When you take things apart, on an individual basis, and do not consider anything but that one piece of evidence - as if other evidence does not exist - it is easier to discount it piecemeal. But, that's why cases have to be built. That is why we have to consider the totality of the evidence.

 

[JerseyGirl]

New thread:

4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #81

This tragedy seems to be breaking news: Police said they responded to King Road for a report of an unconscious person. When officers arrived, they “discovered four individuals who were deceased...”...

www.websleuths.com