4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 73

[BeginnerSleuther]

I respectfully disagree. The justice system is a government function and it includes the investigation of crime. Failing to report I would consider obstruction of the investigative function, but that's just my (non-lawyer) opinion.

If that were the case, then there wouldn't be a separate set of codes for government operations. It would all be lumped together. IMO, there's a difference.

Wikipedia has a page on obstruction laws, if you are interested in an introduction. It includes a paragraph on the common law crime of perverting the course of justice.

A 2004 survey found that 24 states and the District of Columbia had a general statute criminalizing obstruction of justice or obstruction of government functions in broad terms, similar to those found in federal law. (The Varying Parameters of Obstruction of Justice in American Criminal Law). Colorado is one of those states. So is Pennsylvania. Washington's law is open to this interpretation too. It appears that Idaho has chosen to designate specific acts and omissions as obstruction.

As I said before, it's not an issue in the BK case AFAIK, so it may not merit extended discussion here.

The link doesn't state that having knowledge of a crime is obstruction of justice. The link you posted prior was specifically addressing government operations, which again is different, IMO.

I agree that we have no evidence this applies to BK's parents regardless, so I'll leave it there.

 

[Nova]

And the fact that it was a nationwide search, not a search restricted to Moscow, ID. So I don't think it would even be possible to assume he moved the car to avoid detection. Had he left the country, then I'd agree. MOO.



Initially, yes. But the post I was responding to said that if the father knew, then it would be accessory after the fact (independent of what BK thought; this was just about the father's knowledge --> accessory). I accept that if BK said this, it may have been said because of his fear that he implicated his family. I'll go a step further and say regardless of what BK did or didn't say, the father would not be guilty of accessory simply because he knew his son committed a crime and still drove back to PA with him.

MOO.

I already "liked" your post, Sleuther, but because of the confusion resulting from last night's conversation, it bears repeating here. I agree with you 100%! It was never my intention to imply that BK's father was guilty of anything. I don't believe anybody else meant to imply as much either.

We were only speculating as to BK's momentary thought when he asked whether anyone else had been arrested, IF indeed he asked whether anyone else had been arrested.

 

[Nova]

Nope, now it's composed of 12 people from a variety of backgrounds. However, 7 of the 12 feel like they know everything because they watch Law and Order.

IMO

Point taken. But isn't that all the more reason to give jurors MORE info rather than less?

 

[Nova]

Bryan's question about someone else being arrested was likely based on what he believed at the time and not on his sudden desire to learn more about laws and how those laws or facts might affect his parents.

Did BK believe that he had involved his parents (even if he knew they were unwitting)? How did BK think the police viewed the matter? That's who he was talking to: the police who were now in his parents' house in the middle of the night, having broken glass and entered with weapons.

He was not speaking to the world. He was speaking to the people who were arresting him for four murders in Idaho.

He may well have believed, given that the search warrant was being executed on his parents' entire property, that they were in trouble too. He had no way of knowing at that exact moment whether he, himself, was being considered a fugitive.

IMO.

As so often happens, you say it clearly and succinctly. I am reproducing your post here to applaud your reading comprehension skills!

 

[Cool Cats]

Agreed. People point to his criminology studies as why he would have understood the law, but criminology is the study of crime and criminal behavior, nonlegal topics. We don't know if he really asked whether anyone else was arrested but it would be a weird thing this "source" to make up. Either way, I don't see that his degree would have given him any special insight on the possible criminal charges anyone might have faced.

Thanks for pointing this out:

"criminology is the study of crime and criminal behavior, non-legal"

BK didn't study law per se, he studied the criminal mind and motivation and investigating crimes etc... His reddit survey delved into the criminal mind and motivation.

He wasn't necessarily well versed in the legal aspects of being arrested and court procedure.

I remember reading he did answer questions until he was specifically questioned about the murders, then he knew enough to stop talking. He was read his Miranda rights at time of his arrest according to an article so he knew his right to counsel.

 

[Boxer]

That doesn't explain away BK's DNA on the snap of the knife sheath next to a victim's body. They can float all the 'coincidental stalker' theories they like, but the jury won't buy them with the sheath in the mix.

MOO

Agree. But that shows BKs direction at the moment.
His DNA has no business in that house.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Agreed. People point to his criminology studies as why he would have understood the law, but criminology is the study of crime and criminal behavior, nonlegal topics. We don't know if he really asked whether anyone else was arrested but it would be a weird thing this "source" to make up. Either way, I don't see that his degree would have given him any special insight on the possible criminal charges anyone might have faced.

It doesn't seem likely to me that the source, or anyone, simply made up the comment by BK (about asking if anyone else had been arrested).

What seems much more possible, IMO, based on having followed several cases here and seeing how things can snowball, is that someone somewhere speculated something -- possibly speculated what BK might have said IF there actually was an accomplice, or speculated what they think a suspect who thinks he can outsmart LE might say to try to confuse things. Etc.

All it takes is one person speculating, then others pass it along as rumor, then someone claims to have heard it for sure. If by the time it got to Brian E. it was being asserted by someone who appeared knowledgeable, it could have made its way into the mainstream report.

All MOO, just me typing out loud.

 

[Nila Aella]

New posts in case summary

stipulation to unseal with redaction
Order to redact and unseal
notice regarding hearing date on motion to appeal nondissemination order

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/Summary/Case-Summary-Kohberger-022723.pdf

 

[Nova]

It doesn't seem likely to me that the source, or anyone, simply made up the comment by BK (about asking if anyone else had been arrested).

What seems much more possible, IMO, based on having followed several cases here and seeing how things can snowball, is that someone somewhere speculated something -- possibly speculated what BK might have said IF there actually was an accomplice, or speculated what they think a suspect who thinks he can outsmart LE might say to try to confuse things. Etc.

All it takes is one person speculating, then others pass it along as rumor, then someone claims to have heard it for sure. If by the time it got to Brian E. it was being asserted by someone who appeared knowledgeable, it could have made its way into the mainstream report.

All MOO, just me typing out loud.

That is absolutely possible, Auntie. I just think the simplest explanation is that--with agents swarming all over the house--BK wondered aloud what was happening to other members of his family. The question "Who else...?" doesn't speak to anyone's actual guilt, just to what LE was thinking and doing on that night.

It wouldn't be the first time that cohabitants were swept up in a police action (and later released). Heck, we've had a famous case or two in recent years when cohabitants were killed as "collateral damage" to an arrest.

 

[10ofRods]

Agree. I think it's confusing because it seems inappropriate. IMO, a coroner should be a physician. The ME is, but I think coroner and ME are often confused. As a physician who has assisted in autopsies (with an MD forensic pathologist/medical examiner) during training, this still confuses me and I don't quite understand why both are necessary. JMO.

And yet, that is not the legal requirement in most of the 50 states of the United States.

It goes back to early American history and English common law. A coroner is charged with managing the bureaucratic side of deaths.

Medical examiners used to be few and far between (and in some places in the US, still are), but it is the Coroner's job to make sure one of them is employed at an autopsy.

In the case at hand, the autopsies were turned over to a top notch set of medical examiners (in another state) at the behest of the local coroner, who had to ask for and approve that decision.

 

[10ofRods]

That is absolutely possible, Auntie. I just think the simplest explanation is that--with agents swarming all over the house--BK wondered aloud what was happening to other members of his family. The question "Who else...?" doesn't speak to anyone's actual guilt, just to what LE was thinking and doing on that night.

It wouldn't be the first time that cohabitants were swept up in a police action (and later released). Heck, we've had a famous case or two in recent years when cohabitants were killed as "collateral damage" to an arrest.

Speaks more to what BK was thinking and doing in the wee hours of that morning.

There is absolutely no evidence in BK's statement about what LE was thinking - just what he was thinking.

I don't think LE were after BK's parents at all, but wished instead to remove them from the house while the search went down (normal) and BK was likely confused by his inability to speak to his parents or even to know, initially, where they were. He knew that their house had been damaged, IMO.

Whether or not he told his parents anything, he must have been worried that his parents would be perceived as involved.

IMO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

And yet, that is not the legal requirement in most of the 50 states of the United States.

It goes back to early American history and English common law. A coroner is charged with managing the bureaucratic side of deaths.

Medical examiners used to be few and far between (and in some places in the US, still are), but it is the Coroner's job to make sure one of them is employed at an autopsy.

In the case at hand, the autopsies were turned over to a top notch set of medical examiners (in another state) at the behest of the local coroner, who had to ask for and approve that decision.

I understand. I'm just saying I don't think such protocols are necessary today. MOO

 

[10ofRods]

Honestly, I am a little surprised that his high school has released as much as they have.

Schools have to respond to subpoenas. They can try to fight them (but rarely do).

IMO

 

[10ofRods]

Thank you so much. Clearly I have been confused on that point all along!

I should add that I meant "of the two programs," Criminal Justice is more common than Criminology.

And Criminology is a loosely defined professional (not academic) designation. Criminal Justice is also a professional track, with very good opportunities to employment (within LE, but sometimes urban planning/city planning; civilian support services for LE and jails, etc).

I think most people think of Criminology as including aspects of human behavior, but I'm not sure that's the case for all the various programs calling themselves that.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

I understand. I'm just saying I don't think such protocols are necessary today. MOO

Well, you asked why - and that's the why. It's pretty universal in the US for there to be an elected coroner - who has to deal with such things as hiring (crime scene photographers) and purchase orders (equipment). Medical examiners are usually physicians with board certification in pathology whose time is best used on less mundane/non-technical matters.

I think it's up to the voters of each jurisdiction to decide this. Sometimes, people with medical backgrounds get elected to be Coroners (pretty regular where I live - but it's not a given). At any rate, the work of a Coroner is very different to the work of a forensic pathologist/medical examiner. The Coroner is responsible to the county or state for proper administration of funds in buying necessary supplies and equipment; most ME's do not want to have to spend their mental energy on that.

IMO.

 

[deugirtni]

Good point. Xana's car is released Dec 20. Kaylee's RR is released Dec 28. Brian arrested Dec 30. On Jan 12th, the Chapin vehicles are still impounded.

Xana Kernodle's belongings removed from storage | Fox News Video

Murder victim, Xana Kernodle's blue Honda is removed from a storage facility along with boxes containing her things. (Credit: Derek Shook for Fox News Digital)

www.foxnews.com

I read there were 5 vehicles impounded... Xana, Kaylee, Ethan, Ethan's brother... and who else?

 

[gliving]

I read there were 5 vehicles impounded... Xana, Kaylee, Ethan, Ethan's brother... and who else?

Maddie's white car next to Kaylee's new RR. Xana's is the blue Honda at the end. Ethan's red Jeep and his brother's black SUV.




Edit to add link and date of photos. November 29, 2022

Investigators seize 5 cars from house where University of Idaho students were murdered

Authorities towed away five vehicles from the house where four University of Idaho students were brutally murdered as they continue to search for clues — and the killer.

nypost.com

 

[Nila Aella]

Maddie's white car next to Kaylee's new RR. Xana's is the blue Honda at the end. Ethan's red Jeep and his brother's black SUV.


View attachment 405935

Snipped photos to focus on jeep

Is it confirmed as Ethan's Jeep?

edit: only asking because when I went searching for who owned what car, I found a you tube video that thought someone else owned it.

MOO

 

[gliving]

Snipped photos to focus on jeep

Is it confirmed as Ethan's Jeep?

edit: only asking because when I went searching for who owned what car, I found a you tube video that thought someone else owned it.

MOO

I can only go by this.
January 12, 2023
Chapin's mom says anything he had is now 'frozen with the defense.' For them, that includes two cars, his personal belongings and a 'nice set of golf clubs.'

Mother of Ethan Chapin shares update on family two months after losing son

A scholarship in Ethan's name has already raised more than $100,000.

www.krem.com

Yet Dec 6 LE releases household items back to the other families. My timeline gets wonky there. Maybe it's the uneven reporting we've noticed.

Police to remove some belongings of slain University of Idaho students from house

Police in Idaho will begin removing some of the belongings from the home where four University of Idaho students were murdered last month.

komonews.com

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I read there were 5 vehicles impounded... Xana, Kaylee, Ethan, Ethan's brother... and who else?

Not BF or DM?